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Question on LPR camera distance

gamer4life

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I am wanting to purchase a camera such as the Dahua IPC-HFW5231E-Z12 to record license plates as they enter our subdivision. There is only one way in and out and I have the corner lot, so it would be ideal for me to do it for all the other neighbors. I currently have a Huisun PTZ 10X mounted that records all traffic coming and going into the subdivision, but I know it is limited on what it can do. The Huisun camera at fully zoomed can at times make out license plates in the daytime and I haven't even tried night time settings because if I can't read them well in the day, I know there is no chance at night. My question is would the Dahua IPC-HFW5231E-Z12 have enough zoom for the distance I'm trying to cover? Or does anyone have suggestions on another camera or placement? Thanks in advance!

Project.JPG

Here's the Huisun zoomed out view
Entrance_01_20190409071822949.jpg


Here's the Huisun fully zoomed in view (10x)
Entrance_01_20190409070703852.jpg
 

crw030

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Not an expert, so I might be using the IPVM tool wrong, but I have been looking at that same camera myself and it reads like it should be 5-degree HFoV at 12x zoom. I don't get the slider like your picture shows, but I think you are basically zoomed in about twice as far as the camera would be capable of (more than 20x zoom, but the camera can only do 12x).

Since that Huisun is a 10x zoom, and at full zoom the horizontal FoV is about 3x the road width, I don't think you will get a significantly narrower HFoV using the 12x (I guess 20% narrower).

Back on your original question, could this camera do LPR, someone that is an expert at LPR could say better but a quick read in the LPR forum it looks like you need minimum 200-ppm to have high read percentage, and I would estimate you would be very close to that number (65ppf * 3.2 ft/m) at 5-degree FoV.
 
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wtimothyholman

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You might want to consider the Dahua SD49225T-HN camera instead. It is a Starlight camera with 25X zoom, which might do the trick for you. However, it's doubtful the IR diodes in the camera will be able to illuminate the plate at that distance at night. You'll also need to install an IR floodlight to capture plates.

But if you really want to capture those plates, Dahua makes some even higher-performance PTZ Starlight cameras with > 40X zoom. The problem is that a camera like that will be pricey (> $1k). So do you have a neighborhood association, and can you convince them to help defray the cost?
 

bigredfish

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If its the Huisun I think it is, it has a 51mm lens. The Z12 has a 64mm. I dont think you'll gain a ton but you will gain some distance.

My experience with the Z12 is that its great out to 150ft, might work ok out to 200 (depending on your angle and light), but gets iffy from there. Like @wtimothyholman said, you'll need supplemental IR probably. That far tree may be a good place for an IR unit..
 

gamer4life

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Guys thanks for the feedback. This site never disappoints! I think I will look into an alternative location for a lpr camera as the distance and lighting might be a challenge or the results won't be what I need with the Dahua 12x. Those larger cameras are nice, but they are pretty big and as of right now I don't want to go that route. My next door neighbor is willing to split the cost with me, so money won't be the reason for not following through. Thanks for the help.
 

wtimothyholman

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Guys thanks for the feedback. This site never disappoints! I think I will look into an alternative location for a lpr camera as the distance and lighting might be a challenge or the results won't be what I need with the Dahua 12x. Those larger cameras are nice, but they are pretty big and as of right now I don't want to go that route. My next door neighbor is willing to split the cost with me, so money won't be the reason for not following through. Thanks for the help.
Are you willing to do some digging and bury some waterproofed CAT6 cable? If so, ePoE routers can supply > 25W at a distance up to 300 feet. So you could set up a pole or post much closer to the intersection, mount the camera to it, run some buried cable to the camera, and get much better results without having to use an IR beacon at night.

You could even hide the camera in something rustic looking (e.g. a fake bird house), so most people wouldn't even realize it was there.
 

crw030

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With that strategy you could also address the challenging angle relative to the license plates you are trying to read by putting it closer to the road.
 

usaf_pride

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Do you have power at the entrance? If so, put the camera there and use something like a Ubiquiti product to handle the long haul wireless transmission.
 

gamer4life

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Do you have power at the entrance? If so, put the camera there and use something like a Ubiquiti product to handle the long haul wireless transmission.
No power at the entrance unfortunately. I have looked into the Ubiquiti products and they look promising.
 

gamer4life

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Are you willing to do some digging and bury some waterproofed CAT6 cable? If so, ePoE routers can supply > 25W at a distance up to 300 feet. So you could set up a pole or post much closer to the intersection, mount the camera to it, run some buried cable to the camera, and get much better results without having to use an IR beacon at night.

You could even hide the camera in something rustic looking (e.g. a fake bird house), so most people wouldn't even realize it was there.
Thanks for the suggestions. I have thought about the bird box and or mailbox for hidden cameras. Might possibly do this. Thanks!
 

awsum140

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I'd get a conduit out to the farthest tree, mount a "bird house". That would totally eliminate the need for high zoom and additional IR. A regular old 5231R-ZE would do the trick, I'd bet. Use Seal Tite conduit from just below ground level up the tree, maybe four or six feet to the camera. Down side is getting the trench in and grass growing again.
 
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gamer4life

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I'd get a conduit out to the farthest tree, mount a "bird house". That would totally eliminate the need for high zoom and additional IR. A regular old 5231R-ZE would do the trick, I'd bet. Use Seal Tite conduit from just below ground

level up the tree, maybe four or six feet to the camera. Down side is getting the trench in and grass growing again.
Thanks great advice.
 

wtimothyholman

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Down side is getting the trench in and grass growing again.
The trench might not be that difficult, depending on the soil, and how many tree roots you have to deal with.

Get some of this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E7GEZEE/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Then use a flat edge shovel to cut a 6" deep trench into the ground, push in the cable, and just spool it out as you go along. With someone to help you, you can get it done pretty quickly. There's no need to bury a conduit for the cable. The grass should recover pretty quickly, too.
 

gamer4life

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The trench might not be that difficult, depending on the soil, and how many tree roots you have to deal with.

Get some of this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01E7GEZEE/ref=oh_aui_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Then use a flat edge shovel to cut a 6" deep trench into the ground, push in the cable, and just spool it out as you go along. With someone to help you, you can get it done pretty quickly. There's no need to bury a conduit for the cable. The grass should recover pretty quickly, too.
Thanks wtimothyholman!!!! I'm getting some great ideas from everyone.
 

awsum140

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Having Mr. Murphy as a local resident, I think conduit is worth the effort. Direct burial cable is OK, but if/when it "goes south" you're stuck doing the same thing all over again. With a conduit it would be easy to add an additional cable, if ever need, for an IR light without worrying about splitters and such. The same technique could be used to cut out a six or eight inch width of turf, then a Ditch Witch would make short work of the actual trench. A vacuum cleaner on one end of the conduit with a ball of light plastic bag attached to a roll of masons twine will pull right through with no problems. PVC conduit is cheap and will offer reasonable protection for the cable, keeping Mr. Murphy at bay.
 

gamer4life

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Having Mr. Murphy as a local resident, I think conduit is worth the effort. Direct burial cable is OK, but if/when it "goes south" you're stuck doing the same thing all over again. With a conduit it would be easy to add an additional cable, if ever need, for an IR light without worrying about splitters and such. The same technique could be used to cut out a six or eight inch width of turf, then a Ditch Witch would make short work of the actual trench. A vacuum cleaner on one end of the conduit with a ball of light plastic bag attached to a roll of masons twine will pull right through with no problems. PVC conduit is cheap and will offer reasonable protection for the cable, keeping Mr. Murphy at bay.
Wow!!!! Smart idea on the plastic and twine. I would agree about ole "Mr. Murphy" seems to happen to me often. I'm a firm believer in running extra cables for the "just in case"" I need to add something later.
 

gamer4life

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Guys what about this setup for lpr reading? I already have cat5e ran to my driveway entrance columns and I was wondering if the Dahua IPC-HDW2231R-ZS would work here. I really don't want a bullet camera here as I want to probably paint the exterior of the camera to match the brick. With the camera zoomed out would it be enough? I'm guessing I did the IPVM settings right for the camera with the fov? Again thanks in advance for any advice.

upload_2019-4-11_8-42-23.png

Here is where it would be mounted. Minus vegetation being in the way

cam location.jpg

Simulated view with a cellphone camera

20190408_161352.jpg
 

awsum140

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I agree that the angle isn't very good and the position is after your driveway. What happens if they stop for goodies from your house rather than your neighbors? If you could get a view looking in the opposite direction from there it should help the angle and distance at the same time. If you already have some CAT out there, do a test setup and see how it works both day and night.
 

gamer4life

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I agree that the angle isn't very good and the position is after your driveway. What happens if they stop for goodies from your house rather than your neighbors? If you could get a view looking in the opposite direction from there it should help the angle and distance at the same time. If you already have some CAT out there, do a test setup and see how it works both day and night.

I would agree, but all of our car door checkers seem to drive through my deadend subdivision first and come on to my property on the way out. My thought was they may see the camera and if I could get them as they come in I would already have their tags. I have already had locked up the last ones that came onto my property and I would rather the bad guys not see all my cameras and hopefully be able to get a good identification. I do see what your saying though. Good points.
 
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