Questions re NVR for 12 4K (8MP) Cameras?

[BeachCam]

I am currently running 12 cameras recording 24x7 on an older Dahua-based NVR (H.264/16ch). The cams are mostly 2MP or 3MP Hik's or onvif compatible cameras. All my cameras and the NVR is on a dedicated 1Gb network, so I don't need any NVR PoEs.

I've been testing a few 4K cameras and now want to upgrade the whole system to 4K, but I have questions about the current NVR specs. The 5216 series looks reasonable, but says it can only support/decode four 8MP channels at once. Is that just for display (output) or does that also limit input? Does an NVR like the 5216 decode all the inbound channels or does it just write them directly to disk in H.265 format? My assumption is it only decodes them if it is doing motion detect or some other AI on the feed. Is that correct? In my case I do not have need for motion detect or any other intelligence -- maybe in the future on one or two cams but that's it. I have physical PIR/MW motion sensors near most of the cameras that go to an automation system.

I'd really appreciate any advice. I have no desire to move over to BI or a windows-based solution -- I can understand the appeal, but my unit needs to be locked in a safe and windows updates are a bag of hurt. I'd like something that can go two years without having to reboot it like my current NVR.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[wittaj]

@Parley can answer your question about 4K cameras and the NVR capabilities. He needs several NVRs to support his 4K system.

Keep in mind an NVR is simply a watered down computer....

You can get a capable computer to run all the 4K cameras you want cheaper than an NVR...

You can certainly set BI up to be just as maintenance free as people claim with an NVR. You turn off Windows updates and BI updates and it just runs and better than an NVR lol.

Mine goes years without a reboot, as do most here...In fact the only time mine reboots is when I DO IT. I have never had the system just randomly reboot and I would know because it will send me an alert anytime it goes offline or is restarted.

You can lock the BI computer in a safe - get a SFF and it isn't much bigger than an NVR. You don't need a keyboard and monitor hooked to it - simply remote into it.

BI allows for anonymous update of performance data. People have had it running nonstop for over 1900 days, or 5 years...3 years more than your 2 year request LOL. And I suspect that the last time it rebooted was when they manually did it...

 

[Parley]

I am currently running 12 cameras recording 24x7 on an older Dahua-based NVR (H.264/16ch). The cams are mostly 2MP or 3MP Hik's or onvif compatible cameras. All my cameras and the NVR is on a dedicated 1Gb network, so I don't need any NVR PoEs.

I've been testing a few 4K cameras and now want to upgrade the whole system to 4K, but I have questions about the current NVR specs. The 5216 series looks reasonable, but says it can only support/decode four 8MP channels at once. Is that just for display (output) or does that also limit input? Does an NVR like the 5216 decode all the inbound channels or does it just write them directly to disk in H.265 format? My assumption is it only decodes them if it is doing motion detect or some other AI on the feed. Is that correct? In my case I do not have need for motion detect or any other intelligence -- maybe in the future on one or two cams but that's it. I have physical PIR/MW motion sensors near most of the cameras that go to an automation system.

I'd really appreciate any advice. I have no desire to move over to BI or a windows-based solution -- I can understand the appeal, but my unit needs to be locked in a safe and windows updates are a bag of hurt. I'd like something that can go two years without having to reboot it like my current NVR.

Thanks,

Mike

Hikvision has come out with the M series NVR's that will handle 8 4K cameras at 25fps. If you ran them at say 15FPS they would most likely handle a couple of more 4K cameras, maybe 10. If you ran them at 12fps then maybe it would handle all 12. I would get a 16 port version because they are rated at 200 watts for the POE. The 8 port version is only rated at 120 watts total for the POE.

 

[BeachCam]

Keep in mind an NVR is simply a watered down computer....

Exactly. An NVR is a dedicated network appliance specifically designed for one purpose. For me, the effort to "water down" a windows PC to be as single purpose as an NVR is a huge amount of effort. Also to "harden it" for high availability (drives etc) becomes expensive and time consuming. I run a large cyber security business, am a network and computer science guy by background, and have built hundreds of windows and linux machines. I have some windows machines running now for "dedicated purposes" and they are still a bag of hurt to manage. NVRs have dedicated chipsets for decoding. Windows is so incredibly bloated that to strip it down and turn EVERYTHING off is an epic pain. Eventually you have to update, because windows is the largest attack surface in the world so there are too many exploits, when you turn on updates after a year you will be waiting six months for it to finish. If someone has a dedicated PC running in their house and they want to use it as an NVR that could make a lot of sense, but it isn't for me.

 

[wittaj]

To each their own LOL.

The only reason I replied was to refute your inaccurate claims about BI/computer VMS system.

As someone that has run both BI and NVRs, I can tell you my experiences with BI and computer are far better than my experiences with an NVR.

I said an NVR is a watered down computer, not that you have to water down a computer to run BI lol.

Most here would not say their BI computer is a "bag of hurt". Mine runs way better than any NVR I ever had.

The integrated GPU in an Intel chip decodes and runs the video just fine. Heck even the CPU can decode it fine. I tested it once by disabling the internal GPU. So that comment doesn't make much sense.

You will need to buy a drive whether you buy an NVR or BI computer, so not sure where that comment was going.

My BI VMS is way more responsive and powerful and way more proactive than reactive, which was what my NVR system was.

You run the Windows media creation tool and it takes a whole 15 minutes and strips out all the bloatware. Not much else you need to do after that.

You isolate the system, whether it is an NVR or computer for BI and thus updates for exploits isn't an issue. Or you let it update. Either way, you think that NVR is getting frequent updates. Think again.

An NVR is lucky to maybe see 3 updates. And vulnerabilities are always found on them and sometimes fixed and mostly not.

Even if you disable windows updates, you can still let it update virus protection if you decide to give the computer internet access. Going to be better protection than that NVR that doesn't have that capability...

Most here don't experience the bag of hurt issues you claim to have. Maybe in a business setting with bunches of programs and what not, but to use it simply as an NVR, nope our experiences don't reflect what you are saying...

Hopefully you can find one NVR that can run twelve 4K cameras and not need two, but it will be more expensive than a computer for BI...one that could run your 12 cameras just fine....

 

[TonyR]

For me, the effort to "water down" a windows PC to be as single purpose as an NVR is a huge amount of effort.

For me, setting up and using Blue Iris was easy-peasy.

And for someone who runs ".. a large cyber security business", is "...a network and computer science guy by background", and has "...built hundreds of windows and linux machines", I would think it would be a piece of cake.

IMO, anything worth its salt deserves some effort. If its too easy, it likely won't live up to one's expectations....just my 2 cents. I must admit though, that although not impossible, locking up a PC in a safe would present the biggest challenge.

Best of luck in finding what serves your needs and works for you.