Quick and dirty

[BobSmooth]

I should have done this sooner. Wanted to years ago and never did and now I've got problems. I need to catch a neighbor who is getting more and more aggressive with other neighbors. They jumped him once at his place and have now started launching large fireworks at/into his home. It's only a matter of time before I'm next. The local PD won't stop them until their case is served to them on a silver platter.

My font door to victims front door is ~150. Edge of my garage to the far side of his garage is ~200. He is across the street and one house over. The offenders are also across the street and 4 houses down from him ~250' from my front door. I've got an old gaming system running torrents and Plex that could probably run blue iris but IDK if I'm down for learning that yet. I know you guys say start slowly and build up so I figured just 2/3 cams for now. I figured two on the driveway mounted via the soffit which is 8' high (I know eye level is best but I'd rather not mount into the brickwork). We don't park in the driveway at all. We pull our cars into the garage but I do have a beater pickup on the street to the left of the drive. I'd like to be able to identify these jerks if they mess with his house again. Maybe another one in the soffit above the front door aimed nice and tight on the front of his house? In a perfect world I'd have one on the offenders house as well but I don't think that will work well. I am not concerned with the back of the house as I am not the target yet. Eventually I'd like one in my garage and one on each back door. I don't have any fences/gates or natural choke points other than in-between my house and the two neighbors.

In all honesty these guys are really dumb and it shouldn't be that hard to catch them. I witnessed the last firework episode and watched two shadows run into their house. Still not enough for the PD to do anything.

Attached are some pics of their houses in relation to mine and my home. The wide angle is from my driveway. You can see the offenders on the far left with the American Flag hanging. They primarily use that side door to the driveway. Their favorite target is on the far right, the red brick ranch. I took some closer shots of each house separately. The red truck is always there if he's there and usually he has a personal truck parked next to it. That makes it really hard to see anything happening between the trucks and his garage but he's got a shitty wifi cam 90degrees to his garage door. The rest are of my place.

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated.

 

[mat200]

I should have done this sooner. Wanted to years ago and never did and now I've got problems. I need to catch a neighbor who is getting more and more aggressive with other neighbors. They jumped him once at his place and have now started launching large fireworks at/into his home. It's only a matter of time before I'm next. The local PD won't stop them until their case is served to them on a silver platter.

My font door to victims front door is ~150. Edge of my garage to the far side of his garage is ~200. He is across the street and one house over. The offenders are also across the street and 4 houses down from him ~250' from my front door. I've got an old gaming system running torrents and Plex that could probably run blue iris but IDK if I'm down for learning that yet. I know you guys say start slowly and build up so I figured just 2/3 cams for now. I figured two on the driveway mounted via the soffit which is 8' high (I know eye level is best but I'd rather not mount into the brickwork). We don't park in the driveway at all. We pull our cars into the garage but I do have a beater pickup on the street to the left of the drive. I'd like to be able to identify these jerks if they mess with his house again. Maybe another one in the soffit above the front door aimed nice and tight on the front of his house? In a perfect world I'd have one on the offenders house as well but I don't think that will work well. I am not concerned with the back of the house as I am not the target yet. Eventually I'd like one in my garage and one on each back door. I don't have any fences/gates or natural choke points other than in-between my house and the two neighbors.

In all honesty these guys are really dumb and it shouldn't be that hard to catch them. I witnessed the last firework episode and watched two shadows run into their house. Still not enough for the PD to do anything.

Attached are some pics of their houses in relation to mine and my home. The wide angle is from my driveway. You can see the offenders on the far left with the American Flag hanging. They primarily use that side door to the driveway. Their favorite target is on the far right, the red brick ranch. I took some closer shots of each house separately. The red truck is always there if he's there and usually he has a personal truck parked next to it. That makes it really hard to see anything happening between the trucks and his garage but he's got a shitty wifi cam 90degrees to his garage door. The rest are of my place. View attachment 199854View attachment 199854View attachment 199854View attachment 199855View attachment 199856View attachment 199857View attachment 199858View attachment 199859

Any recommendations are greatly appreciated.

Welcome bobsmooth ..

Start with one varifocal 4mp 1/1.8" sensor model camera and a small poe switch, good length of cat5e/6 cable of 23 or 24 awg copper wires, and setup a test rig.

You may need a couple of cameras down the road, however start with one good one to learn for now.

 

[tangent]

I should have done this sooner. Wanted to years ago and never did and now I've got problems. I need to catch a neighbor who is getting more and more aggressive with other neighbors. They jumped him once at his place and have now started launching large fireworks at/into his home. It's only a matter of time before I'm next. The local PD won't stop them until their case is served to them on a silver platter.

I had a belligerent drunk rugby player with a fireworks problem as a former neighbor. His name isn't Robert is it ?

It sounds like fairly wide angle coverage of what's happening might be your initial goal if it isn't too hard to recognize different people from the problem house.

This is a varifocal camera we recommend frequently: EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-ZE-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Starlight 2.7mm–12mm Var
This one comes in 3 different fixed lens sizes and costs a bit less, it's also a little smaller: EmpireTech IPC-T54IR-AS-S3 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP IR Fixed-focal Eyeball Netw

The question is how much detail do you want / need. There are cameras with much more zoom that would allow you to capture activity around your neighbor's house or the problem neighbor's travels in more detail, but they aren't subtle.

EmpireTech IPC-B52IR-Z12E-S2 1/2.8" CMOS 2MP 5mm–60mm Ultra Low Light

2-MP 1/2.8" CMOS image sensor | Built-in IR LED | The max. illumination distance is 150 m | Deep learning algorithm | Built-in MIC | IP67 and IK10 protection | SMD 3.0

empiretech01.com

This PTZ is on the smaller end size wise for PTZs (similar in size to a ball 7" in diameter). It could be an interesting option. May or may not be perceived as more subtle, but it is harder for someone to tell where it's pointed. It can track subjects automatically but that has its limitations.

EmpireTech PTZ425DB-AT 1/2.8" 4MP 25x Starlight IR 5mm–125mm Vari-Foca

1/2.8" 4Megapixel STARVIS™ CMOS | 25x optical zoom | Starlight technology | Max. 25/30fps@4MP | IR distance up to 100 m | Auto-tracking 1.0 | Perimeter protection | Face detection | SMD 3.0 | IP66

empiretech01.com

There's also this camera which combines 2 cameras into a 180 degree image.

EmpireTech IPC-Color4K-T180 4K Full-Color 1/1.8" CMOS Dual-Lens Splici

Dual 1/1.8" CMOS Image Sensor | Outputs 180° wide angle splicing image | Built-in warm light | The max. illumination distance is 40 m | Built-in Mic and speaker supports two-way talk | IP67 protection | EPTZ function | SMD3.0

empiretech01.com

 

[tangent]

I've got an old gaming system running Plex that could probably run blue iris but IDK if I'm down for learning that yet.

Many cameras have a microsd card slot that can be used as a backup or temporary solution until you get something else figured out. I like Samsung Endurance cards, 128GB is often more economical than larger cards, but 256GB would last longer before the card wears out.

Your plex system may be able to handle recording cameras, depends on specs and number of cameras, but you should plan on using a dedicated hard drive for surveillance recording. Plan on recording 24x7, especially in this situation, you don't want to miss something important.

The garage soffits / wall above the door are obviously the easiest places to mount the cameras especially in a hurry, but do experiment a bit with the precise location. Sometimes moving a camera as little as a few inches can make a big difference in how it preforms.

 

[tangent]

If the bad neighbor is a renter and not the owner of the house, it could be easier to be rid of them.

I think the neighbor who's the victim of the harassment / assault / vandalism could probably try to get a restraining order. Consult an attorney.

 

[BobSmooth]

If the bad neighbor is a renter and not the owner of the house, it could be easier to be rid of them.

I think the neighbor who's the victim of the harassment / assault / vandalism could probably try to get a restraining order. Consult an attorney.

No, they bought unfortunately. I’m in a pretty affluent town for the area and these guys don’t belong. Every six weeks or so there are complaints about the kid nearly causing a wreck or driving aggressively. Parents don’t care and even encourage some of the stupid behavior.

They moved in about a year ago. I was neighborly and introduced myself etc. Father is ~50 and doesn't work. Has a felony for B&E about 30 years ago. Smells like weed and/or booze every time I talked to him. Mother is at work or out at "the farm" they rent I really only see her on weekends and not every weekend. Two boys are 19 and 17. They are/were both wrestlers in the local school district. They square up to you when talking and get right in your face. Back off killer I'm talking about the lawn... Oldest was recently shipped out of state to be with uncle who runs an MMA gym.

From the day they moved in they were trouble. They were riding dirt bikes and doing wheelies down the street in the middle of town. They've got muscle cars that are loud as shit and speed through the neighborhood. I've got a county police officer albeit not our county and a Sgt for the local PD on the block to boot. The speeding is what caused the neighbor across the street to get jumped. Him and another neighbor walked down to talk to them about it as there are multiple families with young kids on the block. Father was belligerent and the boys were egging him on to start a fight. Both neighbors walked back home and about an hour later the father and the two boys walked back to the red brick ranch and jumped him on his porch as he opened the door. I had my windows open and heard the fight but by the time I got to the door they were walking away proud of their accomplishments. Victim tore his ACL and had to miss work for weeks due to the surgery. Police said it was a he said, she said and there is nothing they can do. WTF?

This last incident they lit fireworks off in his driveway. I heard the black cats at the end of the driveway and they sounded like they were in my yard, so I got up really quick to look. Got to the window in time to see the mortar go off next to his house. It was about 2' from his garage aimed directly towards it. Broke his kitchen window, put a hole in the sofit, and dented the hell out of his garage door. I saw two shadows run into their side door off their garage and then the house went dark. Police made contact and they denied it all. Because they were just shadows and I could not describe their clothing, nothing was done. As fast as it happened I was lucky to see them going into their home but it didn't matter.

The youngest boy is a terror of the town in his Dodge Charger. Every six weeks or so the socials blow up about him doing something stupid. He has had his license for about a year now and has had a litany of tickets. Multiple speeding, failure to prevent an accident, so he's wrecked it, tint, no front plate, improper bumpers from not fixing it after the wreck, too many kids in the car, loud exhaust and so on... He keeps postponing his traffic court, so he's not lost his license yet,

For now, they are targeting the neighbor but it's only a matter of time before they get bored and move on.

My guess is they are going to stay to get the youngest through the good school district and then move to the farm. Which means if I'm correct I've got at least another year of this shit.

 

[tangent]

I'd suggest the victim, post some no trespassing signs and take photos documenting the signs installed.

https://www.amazon.com/Trespassing-Private-Property-Soliciting-Aluminum/dp/B0CDFYSC7Z/

In many states if you've posted "no trespassing" signs it can increase to legal penalty for trespassing.

 

[tangent]

They moved in about a year ago. I was neighborly and introduced myself etc. Father is ~50 and doesn't work. Has a felony for B&E about 30 years ago. Smells like weed and/or booze every time I talked to him. Mother is at work or out at "the farm" they rent I really only see her on weekends and not every weekend. Two boys are 19 and 17. They are/were both wrestlers in the local school district. They square up to you when talking and get right in your face. Back off killer I'm talking about the lawn... Oldest was recently shipped out of state to be with uncle who runs an MMA gym.

From the day they moved in they were trouble. They were riding dirt bikes and doing wheelies down the street in the middle of town. They've got muscle cars that are loud as shit and speed through the neighborhood. I've got a county police officer albeit not our county and a Sgt for the local PD on the block to boot. The speeding is what caused the neighbor across the street to get jumped. Him and another neighbor walked down to talk to them about it as there are multiple families with young kids on the block. Father was belligerent and the boys were egging him on to start a fight. Both neighbors walked back home and about an hour later the father and the two boys walked back to the red brick ranch and jumped him on his porch as he opened the door. I had my windows open and heard the fight but by the time I got to the door they were walking away proud of their accomplishments. Victim tore his ACL and had to miss work for weeks due to the surgery. Police said it was a he said, she said and there is nothing they can do. WTF?

This last incident they lit fireworks off in his driveway. I heard the black cats at the end of the driveway and they sounded like they were in my yard, so I got up really quick to look. Got to the window in time to see the mortar go off next to his house. It was about 2' from his garage aimed directly towards it. Broke his kitchen window, put a hole in the sofit, and dented the hell out of his garage door. I saw two shadows run into their side door off their garage and then the house went dark. Police made contact and they denied it all. Because they were just shadows and I could not describe their clothing, nothing was done. As fast as it happened I was lucky to see them going into their home but it didn't matter.

Sounds like the worst of 3 of my worst former neighbors all rolled into one family. If it's any condolence it took a good while, but 2 of 3 lost their homes to foreclosure. The third who was involved in over 40 burglaries finally sold last year.
Not sure it would be worth it and IANAL, but the people in the red brick house could likely peruse this in civil court with some success.

Back to the subject of cameras a T54IR-ZE-S3 and a IPC-Color4K-T180 CMOS Dual-Lens could be a good place to start. One thing to note about the T180 is it uses white light not IR light, if you'd prefer IR then at pair of fixed focal T54IR-AS-S3's is an option.
You may also want a couple of the junction boxes that fit these cameras.

The PTZ425DB-AT mentioned above has some potential but is a bit trickier. It may work better mounted a little higher, but then trees would be in the way more. It also has a smaller sensor and doesn't do as well in the dark especially at distance. There are PTZs with better low light performance, but they're more expensive and quite a bit larger.

There are forum threads reviewing / discussing these cameras in lots of detail.

Nighttime performance 150-250' out isn't going to amaze.

 

[TonyR]

Dodge Charger, dirt bikes....it always amazes me how theses types manage to afford such toys. Oh, I'm sure it's because they have good jobs and aren't receiving any social assistance, disability, etc. I'm equally as sure the cars are fully insured, etc.
</end sarcasm>

 

[AlwaysSomething]

I have a similar situation which is what got me into cameras. I have a kid directly across the street from me that sounds like your neighbors kid. In my case the mother is an enabler and will defend her boy to no end. The father seems to have given up since the mother enables the kid.

Spoiler: Here is my problem child if you want to read.

The kid would come and go all hours of the night starting at age 13-14 (thanks to Uber). Didn't matter if school night or not. I always asked where the hell does a 13-14 year old need to go at 2-3 in the morning?? Parents enabled it.

At 15 he threw a popup party (posted on the internet for all to come) at his own house. Mother was home the whole time and did nothing. She said they were all good kids just having fun. Mind you there was alcohol and drugs and most of the people showing up were driving. These were not HS kids like him (again he was 15 years old at the time). I had the recordings of his party where some "good kids" decide to bring gel guns and start shooting people. Wouldn't be bad if the gel pellets weren't frozen to make it like a BB gun. You can hear people screaming and ducking behind cars. Also, the cars racing up and down the street. Mind you my street is way off the beaten path and there is no way to find it even accidentally. It is a very quiet neighborhood. Over a dozen neighbors from around the block called the cops. There is only 2 ways in and out so the cops could have easily blocked the roads and caught every one of them. Instead they just drove through with the lights on and did nothing!!!! My neighbors and I were furious!!!

More has happened but I can type for days so I won't.

But the best part...

Fast forward to this past December when the mother bought him a fully loaded Mustang GT 5.0 Premium. He didn't even have his license yet. The car was LOUD!!!I Another neighbor and I asked on separate occasions if he could keep it down and not race up and down the street. We were both told he is allowed to drive loud during the day but they would "ask" him to not speed. Really????

He has since modified the car 2-3 times more and it's basically open headers now (I can hear him 2-5 minutes before he pulls down the street). Definitely no cats as it smells bad. There are also posts about him on social media from all around the town complaining about the noise and the way he drives. Oh and he already had one accident but the parents fixed the car for him. Mother saw the posts and said people don't respect "Muscle cars" and WE are all bad people for attacking her son!!! I was cutting my grass on a commercial zero turn mower with ear muffs on and heard him start his car. That is INSANE!!! WTF!!!

Many people have gone to the cops but they said they can't do anything. They said we'd have to create a Civil Suit against him. Even though the car is illegal with no Cats or muffler, tinted windows, no front plate, etc. Even though they are illegal, they are not moving violations so they can't pull him over. WTF!!!

Sorry, didn't mean to hijack your thread but wanted to let you know that there are others suffering like you. Also glad to hear I'm not the only one with crap like this. I pray every night that good will conquer evil. But look at the world today.

Back to your topic... You will get good advice on this site. Make sure to read the wiki and do your homework.

You will definitely need more than one camera if you want to have cold hard "proof" (unless you go with a crazy expensive and obviously large PTZ). Keep in the mind the high end PTZ are large in size and very obvious to the perps.

You will need one camera that can cover the 2 houses so it can show the people running between them. However, that won't be good enough to "identify" the people. So the perps can just say "how do know which one of us it was?" or some other BS like they had friends over and don't know who it was.

You'll want at least a second camera (or more) that can zoom in close to be able to "identify" them. That's the hard part. I have the T54IR-ZE-S3 and highly recommend it but not sure if it will zoom in enough for you. Definitely good place to start.

Again, read the wiki since you don't want to buy cameras based on MP only.

Good luck!!

 

[BobSmooth]

Not the suspect neighbors but probably one of their friends. Caught on the targets cheap unknown brand blink style camera. My cheap blink only caught the police response. Trail cam batteries died two days before. Fml. I am still formulating a plan and budget. Hopefully be up and running this fall when I can save enough cash for the system and the attic temps fall. Might need to dip into savings to speed this up if they keep acting like fools.

 

[tangent]

Not the suspect neighbors but probably one of their friends. Caught on the targets cheap unknown brand blink style camera. My cheap blink only caught the police response. Trail cam batteries died two days before. Fml. I am still formulating a plan and budget. Hopefully be up and running this fall when I can save enough cash for the system and the attic temps fall. Might need to dip into savings to speed this up if they keep acting like fools.

It's easier than you think to get something up and running and I wouldn't wait. I had a neighbor earlier this summer who had an attempted armed home invasion followed by a burglary a couple days later where someone stole a box truck's worth of stuff from the house.

You could skip the attic for now (might also be able to go direct from garage to basement / crawlspace) and simply put up 1-3 cameras on the garage with micro sd cards for recording and a PoE switch in the garage. You're better off getting used to what a couple of cameras can do than trying to buy everything all at once. If the budget is really tight, they are some cheaper options you or your neighbor could consider but they don't do as well in the dark. Eg. an ANNKE FCD600 for $111 or $90 + S&H or the FCD800, the better NCD800 goes on sale occasionally but the Color4k-T180 is better and smaller.

The Reolink Doorbell wouldn't be a bad place to start it's currently $80, was a bit less during prime day, add a 128-256gb micro sd card so you've at least got something. Avoid other reolink products.

Another option to consider down the road is a dash cam with parking mode.

You have some different locations around the garage that could work for cameras, it's just a matter of playing with the options a bit.



Long term, I'd consider a camera zoomed in towards the door the hoodlums use the most. If they are wearing masks as in your neighbors video, if you're lucky they might take them off before they're back inside.
a field of view something like this on a camera probably near the garage man door or to the left of the front door :

 

[BobSmooth]

Yeah with no fences or anything to corral them in I was going to put one on their door and one on the victims door. Maybe a third one for overview to start.

 

[tangent]

Yeah with no fences or anything to corral them in I was going to put one on their door and one on the victims door. Maybe a third one for overview to start.

At the distances you listed, you need quite a bit of zoom. You're basically looking at the B52IR-Z12E-S2 or B54IR-Z4E-S3 (less zoom 8-32mm; 15° HFOV max zoom, perhaps better in low light). Both are fairly large cameras.
You can sometimes save a bit on a refurbished model.

It would actually be cheaper and likely more effective to gift/lend your neighbor an $90-111 FCD600 and power injector than try to zoom in on their driveway. It's also possible to use point to point wifi (starting around $80) to create a link between your house and the neighbor's so you can record camera(s) you've 'lent' to them if you want more than just an sd card.

 

[BobSmooth]

Yeah I was looking at those prices and was hesitant. That refurb is much easier on the wallet. I run the risk of becoming the target with those big guys out there but I’ll need damning proof before the local PD gets off their ass. Thanks for the advice.

 

[tangent]

Yeah I was looking at those prices and was hesitant. That refurb is much easier on the wallet. I run the risk of becoming the target with those big guys out there but I’ll need damning proof before the local PD gets off their ass. Thanks for the advice.

The refurbs often sell out pretty quickly (limited inventory) and are refurbished / tested by the seller not the mfg. Condition can vary a bit, but are a good value. I'd start with one so you can see it before you consider a second.

 

[tangent]

There's also a new camera model that wasn't mentioned above that you might want to consider in more of an overview application, the IPC-Color4M-T.

It's a fixed focus camera with a 2.8 or 3.6 mm lens, but adds a speaker and red / blue leds that can flash. You can set it up to do things like flash red/blue (it may also be able to flash white light) or play a sound if it detects someone between 12am and 6am as an example.
The red/blue lights are a bit gimmicky, but could scare off some people or make them look right at the camera.

EmpireTech IPC-Color4M-T 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP Smart Dual Light Active Deter

4-MP 1/1.8" CMOS | Built-in multi-core light | Max. IR distance is 30 m | Max. warm light distance is 30 m | Intelligent monitoring: Intrusion, tripwire | Supports max. 512 G Micro SD card | Built-in dual Mic | Support two-way talk | IP67 protection | Sound and light alarm (red and blue lights)...

empiretech01.com

 

[BobSmooth]

Thanks tangent for the recommendations. Bought two refurbs.

Also picked up 1k' of Cat5e (solid not braided), 8 port PoE switch, crimpers, fish tape,10TB WD purple, (came into a used 4TB WD Purple until the 10 TB comes in). Going to mount each one onto the header to the garage door crossing each other. One zoomed into the perps side door/drive way in hopes of catching them pre-masked. The other will be a little wider onto the victims home as he has some cameras as well.

Buddy gave me a used Marshall Electronics VS-571. Haven't had time to look up the details on it. Might use it later on down the road. Especially if they see my big ass cameras and make me the next target.

All they've done since the last update was beat some motor vehicle charges and knock and run. He captured them on one of his cameras but they've upgraded to masks. He put it out on social media too which I thought was dumb because now they know what he can and can't see unless he's moved his cameras...

 

[tangent]

Also picked up 1k' of Cat5e (solid not braided)

Hopefully it's 100% pure copper not CCA (copper clad aluminum) as that type of wire is less reliable. If it's CCA, return it if you can and just grab a box of CAT5e at lowes or home depot.
Fish sticks are often more useful than fish tape.

You're going to want at least one camera that can function as more of an overview camera and see activity closer to your house and ideally someone's continuous travel between those two houses.
Possible models for overview:
Color4k-T180, dual 1/1.8" image sensors 180 degree FoV
FCD600 / FCD 800 / NCD800 (or equivalent, models ordered from worst to best), 180 degree FoV, cheaper, not as good, MUCH larger than T180. Decent cheaper option.
Color4k-T 8MP 1/1.2" image sensor 102 degree FoV on 2.8mm lens. Better color low light performance, but doesn't focus well closer than ~16'
Color4m-T 1/1/8" image sensor, red / blue flashing lights, speaker to scare someone off
Reolink Doorbell (probably $60-70 around black Friday)

There are also some much cheaper cameras that aren't going to win any awards but offer quite a bit of bang for your buck once you turn on WDR like this one (currently $38) or this one for $35.
I have one. One of these days I'll post some comparisons to nicer cameras. I will note that the web interface is a bit glitchy. They don't have a micro SD card slot and have much smaller sensors around 1/3", but are reasonably impressive for <$40 compared to what something similar would have cost a few years ago.
Long term, you'd probably want to relegate one of these to somewhere less important like inside the garage.

I guess the point I'm making is you really need something that gives a wider field of view than your two Z12E's. If for no other reason than to hopefully see attempts to vandalize your more expensive cameras.

 

[tangent]

Buddy gave me a used Marshall Electronics VS-571. Haven't had time to look up the details on it. Might use it later on down the road.

I did a quick search on that model. It looks like an older PTZ from around 2016. The specs I saw didn't give all the dimensions but it looked pretty large, on the order of the large Pelco PTZs you may see at some grocery stores. I'd be curious what the dimensions are.
Two other things to note: it's fairly power hungry, you may have to purchase a special PoE switch, power injector, or other power adapter. Based on the specs, compared to some other cameras you could use, it probably doesn't do as well in the dark.