Quick Recommendation..dumb homeowner

[Topfox124]

Hey everyone,

Hoping to get a quick recommendation. Tons of info on the site which is awesome, but looking for the easy button from experts cause I’m slightly overwhelmed with all the info to be honest. I have 7 cameras currently that are 4mp varifocal lens pakedge bullet cams (CK-CAM-BU8342Z) running off a Lilin NVR5208 using POE. I have these integrated into Control4. The cameras haven’t been super disappointing image quality wise (of course we always hope for better) although I don’t really like the NVR interface. It’s kind of clunky. I do have a BI license I purchased probably 20yrs ago, I assume it still works. The problem I’m having with the current cameras is their mounting arm style. I’ve had them for about 2.5 years and now the cameras are having issues staying in the position set and will randomly just drop down. Due to this, and the infinite spider webs I get on the cams, I believe I want to swap them out for Turret style cameras. So here are my questions.

1) Will turret style solve my two issues (spider web and position stability)?
2) Which outdoor cameras would probably be best?

Cameras are more for property observation (10 acres, with only landscape lighting at night…no street lights…think flat farm fields), not necessarily detailed identification like Face detection. Did the UPS man come, are contractors working, is someone or some animal hiding around the corner, are kids swimming in the pool….why are there dead animal bones on the deck (lots of owls around), etc.

They are mounted high, think like 25ft+, basically all the exterior sides of my home. They are mounted either directly to eaves like a ceiling mount or on a side of eave as a wall mount. No junction boxes.

$400 is probably top of my budget. Control4 dealers are trying to sell me Luma 510 turrets which I’ve learned from here are basically rebranded Hikvision.

 

[Topfox124]

That $400 per camera

 

[mat200]

Hey everyone,

Hoping to get a quick recommendation. Tons of info on the site which is awesome, but looking for the easy button from experts cause I’m slightly overwhelmed with all the info to be honest...

Welcome @Topfox124

Hoping to get a quick recommendation. Tons of info on the site which is awesome, but looking for the easy button from experts cause I’m slightly overwhelmed with all the info to be honest...

"Easy button" = normally means pay someone $$$ ( hopefully a professional )

Either that or take more time on this ..

For example .. do you have pictures illustrating the issue?
Pictures of the cameras?
Pictures of what you think is a good image capture? bad image capture?

 

[mat200]

"Control4 dealers are trying to sell me Luma 510 turrets which I’ve learned from here are basically rebranded Hikvision."



Nice .. I like this concept ..

 

[Topfox124]

Understood.

The issue is the “teeth” of the mount that interlocks for the up/down motion. On the cameras I have those teeth are not very aggressive, so I’ve experienced 3 separate cameras that will just drop all of a sudden no matter how much you try to screw the compression together. Nothing worse then pulling up your cameras and one is pointed straight down at the grass. Especially when you are too scared to get up that high on a ladder . For the spider webs, these bullet cams have an adjustable shield. We have them slide back as far as they will go which only leaves a small edge, but spiders still seem to be able to cast webs across the lens with this shield

Im not displeased with the current image I get from my existing cams. Had these mounts not continuously failed I wouldn’t be looking to replace them. The during the day view from the cameras Is actually really good. Night time is pretty decent as well.

Let me see if I can get some photos of the camera for a reference

 

[Topfox124]

Yeah I was looking at possibly getting the following model instead of the Luma. They are cheaper and I think are very similar. They also have the pigtail less feature.

Hikvision DS-2CD2H45FWD-IZS

 

[Topfox124]

The model bullets I currently have is CK-CAM-BU8342Z

Here is a stock photo of one from their website.

 

[Topfox124]

Here is a pic of the current failed one that we have reset 3 times and now it won’t hold at all.

 

[mat200]

Here is a pic of the current failed one that we have reset 3 times and now it won’t hold at all.

Thanks @Topfox124

wow, those cameras are really really high up ..

most certainly someone did not screw them down tight enough .. lazy installer?

 

[Topfox124]

Thanks @Topfox124

wow, those cameras are really really high up ..

most certainly someone did not screw them down tight enough .. lazy installer?

Yeah they are all problem about 25ft up, which works for me as I’m more interested in observing than identifying someone’s face for example. The base mount to the soffit is firmly screwed in, no issues there. It’s just the compression for the bend. I’ve had 3 people screw the 2 screws down that make the compression on that joint, and it holds for maybe a month. We took the one in the photo down yesterday for a better look while on land, and that when I pulled the mount apart and see that the teeth are extremely shallow on that arm and they just don’t catch anymore. Unfortunately as well there doesn’t appear to be a way for me to just change that arm without taken the actual camera apart as well.
If the issue was only occurring with one camera, Id just replace it with the same cam. However I’m all of a sudden this year having this problem with 3 of the 7 I currently have.

 

[mat200]

FYI - NVR discussed

".. running off a Lilin NVR5208 using POE .. "

 

[TVille]

All cameras have spider web problems. Turrets just have fewer total problems. About the only way to eliminate the spider webs is to use remote IR lights and turn off the camera IR lights. The best camera really depends on what you need to see. I have about 14 cameras, and if I were to buy them all again tomorrow, I would still have about 6 different types/kind. It really depends on what your goals are. If close in, you don't need much zoom. If trying to see the end of a 300' driveway, you need zoom, may need to go to a PTZ to get that kind of zoom. It just depends on what you want to do!

As far as "fixing" the issue on the current cameras, I'm pretty sure they could be taken down and reworked so they would hold. But, it takes someone half way decent with mechanical things to figure out how to lock them down. If the teeth are missing, maybe a piece of heavy rubber sheeting would provide adequate grip. Maybe drill a small pin hole. Just depends.

 

[mat200]

The model bullets I currently have is CK-CAM-BU8342Z

Here is a stock photo of one from their website.

FYI - more info

CK-CAM-BU8342Z

Resolution 4 MP (2688 × 1520) maximum,
CMOS 8.5 mm (1/3")

 

[mat200]

Yeah I was looking at possibly getting the following model instead of the Luma. They are cheaper and I think are very similar. They also have the pigtail less feature.

Hikvision DS-2CD2H45FWD-IZS

That 4MP Hikvision camera has a smaller sensor than many of us like for 4MP cameras ..

I'd look for a camera that has a larger sensor ..


fyi - camera info:

DS-2CD2H45FWD-IZS
4 MP Outdoor IR Varifocal Outdoor Network Turret Camera

• 1/2.5" (4 MP) Progressive Scan CMOS
• Up to 2688 x 1520 Resolution @ 30 fps

 

[sebastiantombs]

The three basic rules of video surveillance cameras-

Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

720P - 1/3" = .333"
2MP - 1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet)
4MP - 1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball)
8MP - 1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round)

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Any camera can be made to "see" color at night if the exposure time is long enough, as in half a second or longer. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Avoid Reolink, Foscam, SV3C, Nest, and all the other consumer grade cameras. They all struggle mightily at night and never get anything useful on video. Here's a link to a whole thread debunking Reolink in particular.

Compiled by mat200 -

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

Avoid WiFi cameras, even doorbell cameras. WiFi is not designed for the constant, 24/7, load of video that a surveillance camera produces. At best, with two cameras on WiFi, they will still experience dropouts multiple times daily. Murphy's Law says that will happen at the worst possible moment.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Keep in mind that it may take two cameras, or more, to provide the coverage you need or desire. Another factor that effects view angles is the sensor size. Typically larger sensors will have a larger field of view in any given lens size.

 

[Flintstone61]

would your recorder be able to use other than HIk or HIk OEM cams? This a Dahua turret. Stays reasonably clean even though bugs crawl across the screen occasionally. Its from the EmpireTech store on Amazon. the model number is in the photo.