Recommendations For A New PoE System

LightnLar

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I am wanting to build a new PoE System from scratch.
This is my first system so I don't have much experience.
I would appreciate some advice/help from more experienced users.

I have a recent computer and Blue Iris software.
Can someone recommend what I need for a minimum of 12 PoE Cameras?

A Switch and a good brand of Outdoor HD Cameras.
And any other components needed to get it up and running.

Thanks for your advice and help.
 

pozzello

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used managed switches are available pretty cheap, as companies replace their 100mb switches with gigabit switches.
for example:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/371569599293
this is a 24 port Poe switch with dual gigabit uplink.

if you figure a 3MP cam will provide about 500kBps stream (or ~5Mbps) depending on the resolution, frame rate, and stream bandwidth limit configured.
12 such cams @ 5Mbps will use ~60Mbps, which is almost saturating a 100Mbs connection, so the gigabit uplink is a good option,
but you don't need gigabit for each cam...

as for cameras, you'll get all sorts of recommendations around here, but you may need to provide more info about your needs & budget.
 
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nayr

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@pozzello nailed it, ~5Mbps is probably average for most HD cameras.. most max out at highest possible quality ~10Mbps, 4k Cams double that up to ~20Mbps.. When planning out networks and calculating throughput, best to use the absolute maximum numbers instead of the average however.. so expect 12 such cams to need ~120Mbps for trouble free operation and not ~60Mbps.. tho its likely to only need ~60Mbps in the end.

those retired managed PoE switches are a great value for IPCameras, just ensure you have at least one GigE port on it for your BI Server.

Hikvision and Dahua are the two of the most highly regarded brands arround here, your pretty safe investing in those systems.. its pretty much a draw between the two, each have there advantages and disadvantages that make them win in some environments and loose in others, when compared against eachother... they both typically win when compared to the rest of the market.. but there are some other companies out with really good hardware worth checking out too.. Since your using BI your have the ability to mix and match between brands without much trouble, so you dont have to pick one or the other necessarily..
 

CoreyX64

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It depends on what your needs are. If you're looking for standard run of the mill fixed cameras, I would recommend Hikvision without question. If you're going the PTZ route, while I've never personally worked with them, I'm told Huisun has better offerings in terms of value per dollar with respect to feature set.

When it comes to outdoor cameras, avoid bullets like the plague. It depends on your region for the most part but I learned the hard way when I met my match with the itsy bitsy spider:


Spiders cannot easily build webs on a hemisphere, whereas bullet cameras have vertices that make it easy.

While I stick with Hikvision embedded NVRs, BI is great when going the PCNVR route, and honestly offers a lot more (that I personally don't need), but for the cost of a license and a decently built computer, it's well worth it.

As far as PoE is concerned, you said you have 12 cameras. Too many for an 8 port, so you'll need a 16 port PoE switch. The problem with most PoE switches you will find is that they are not all PoE ports. A 5 port PoE switch only has 1, an 8 port has 4, etc. When you go to purchase this, be absolutely certain that all 16 support PoE. Normally I would say make sure you get a PoE switch with a trunk/uplink port, because this will allow you to use all 16 ports for cameras (running at fast Ethernet speeds), and have 1 trunk line (running at gigabit speeds) back to the recorder. In your case, if you're absolutely certain you won't go up to 16, then an uplink port isn't explicitly required. That's more of a best practice thing.

When wiring, be sure you are purchasing Pure Copper category cable. If you see anything listed as CCA, copper clad, or any box (1000ft) that is well under $100 per box, avoid it. Copper clad is a mixture of aluminum and copper (it has an aluminum core and a copper outer layer, or skin). It is not nor will it ever be UL listed or permitted by the NEC, aluminum has a higher resistance value, so with PoE it means a *theoretical* greater fire risk, especially over longer distances with a more significant voltage drop. Aluminum also has horrible tensile strength vs copper, so the wire does not take bends and kinks as generously.
With all of this being said, I have installed about 10k feet of the stuff, all of which is still functioning perfectly fine to this day. Mind you this was before I had any idea that they were sneaking aluminum in. I jumped at the price, but obviously too good to be true. Am I going to go back and replace it all? Absolutely not. That's an excessive amount of labor for nothing. However, going forward I know what to look for. The cheapest box of pure copper I've found was $90 for a 1000ft box of Cat6. Purchased and verified, it's the real stuff. Your box will also have a hologram UL sticker on it if it's genuine. Simply printing the UL logo on a box of cable anymore is no longer acceptable. It's too easy to forge and has been done so and continues to happen. This went into effect October 2010:
http://ul.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/ul_HolographicCableLabels.pdf

You can get away with Cat5 or 5e on the cameras because it's only running at 10/100 speeds, but for the NVR and any of your core networking, Cat6 all the way. I would also recommend a basic gigE switch to keep your Camera traffic with your NVR away from your router and main network. This is another principle/best practice thing that if you didn't do it, things would still work, but I personally like to give my router a break from non-stop traffic if it isn't absolutely necessary.

Hard drives on your NVR, get WD purples if you can. Very reliable.

I'm out of other things to think of, this is a good start at least.


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nayr

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great advice @CoreyX64, but I am going to slightly disagree on the avoid bullet thing.. each form factor has its strengths and weaknesses depending on location and environment, your spider issue would have been much less of a problem if you had retracted the hood.. you gave him something infront of your IR to build on so any bugs heading for IR would hit his web, nothing to do w/curved surfaces, he'd of never built a web with nothing infront of the IR to attach to.. I have a spider who insists on attaching a web to my black face dahua ptz, not a flat surface on it, too bad for him I can just move it and fuck him up.. I used to keep spiders as a kid and I put em in round clear cups, they had no problems building webs inside a curved environment.

@LightnLar Personally I advise people with reasonable camera counts like your looking at to simply record all outdoor cameras 24/7/365 and somewhere in your house setup a dedicated display, bugs wont be such a nuisance.. if you notice a spider blocking the view just brush it off with a broom.. its good to keep em clean.

Some locations bullets are best (mounting onto a thin post or edge of a metal box), other locations domes are best (low height with low IR needs), others locations turrets are best (high on a wall or under an eave), and then even some places box cameras are best (extreme conditions, massive zoom).. let the location tell you what to choose, not some shaky bias towards/against anything specific..

I hear oh domes suck because they bleed IR, yeah well they wont suck if you have a neighbor pissed off at your cameras and you can continue recording as he tries to destroy them.. so it depends if the hassle of tinkering with it to prevent IR bleed outweighs the benefits of having something vandal resistant.. blanket statements can lead people to the wrong conclusions.
 
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CoreyX64

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I hear oh domes suck because they bleed IR, yeah well they wont suck if you have a neighbor pissed off at your cameras and you can continue recording as he tries to destroy them.. so it depends if the hassle of tinkering with it to prevent IR bleed outweighs the benefits of having something vandal resistant.. blanket statements can lead people to the wrong conclusions.
I never understood why people complained about IR bleed on domes...actually I find the IR better if anything. Nothing beats turrets, at least the EXIR ones, those are really good. However any of the 2132s and now more recently, 3145s, that I've installed, I much prefer the IR over bullets because it is more uniform and evened out looking like natural light, whereas bullets looks more like a spotlight focused near the center. However, I'm probably comparing apples to oranges here. I have not tried Hikvision's newer F-I bullet models, all of mine in question are old school 2032s. That's likely what the foam O-ring around the image sensor is for, to help reduce or eliminate that, even if basic light principles dictate otherwise. I will say the bullets do have a slightly stronger IR range, though not as uniform. However I have older bullets so that might also play a factor if they've changed the IR on new ones like they did with the domes.

As with anything, it's location location location. I've gone so far as to remove the visor on one 2032, and I still have webs on them in a short amount of time (not nearly as bad though, but still there). For whatever reason, they don't mess with the domes. Why replacing bullets with domes in the same physical camera location eliminates the problem, I'm not sure. Maybe it's a midwest spider thing. East and west coast spiders might have a different agenda. I've done this at 2 different locations (location meaning building locations, not different areas of the same building), and the problem went away. It's quite odd. One size (camera) does not fit all.
 
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