Seeking A Remote Surveillance Camera System

[mcharley94]

Hi All! My apologies if I am posting in the wrong area (or even the wrong type of forum for that matter). If I am, if you could please redirect me I will gladly appreciate it and comply.

I have a situation where our brand new sports field pavilion area is being vandalized, most likely by local juveniles. In an attempt to rectify the situation I was looking to install a 'inconspicuous' surveillance camera to monitor the unwanted activity within the pavilion area, which is most likely happening in the wee hours of the night. I mention inconspicuous because if it was clearly visible they would most likely just shot the camera with a pellet gun just like they have the motion sensor lights. The local PD is aware of the situation and doing their best to help, but being a small village the manpower is limited, especially at night.

The problem I have is that the area in question is unmanned most of the time and in a remote area. And by remote I mean the pavilion is centrally located in the middle of 3 sports fields with no wired internet and no access to a computer/server, and too far away from any other buildings for an IR camera mounted on any of them to be effective. There is however access to a very strong 4G mobile network signal with the tower being just a few hundred feet away, along with an electrical power source within the pavilion building.

I was hoping someone here could help me out by pointing me in the direction of a good surveillance system that would accommodate the following...

Be mounted within the pavilion building itself using the electrical source within and work over a mobile network
Give access to a live feed when desired via remote smart phone or computer
Have a programmable motion sensing activation that would record and send the captured video to a cloud system, i.e. motion sensing activate at dusk and disable at dawn (or work on a preset schedule)
Send an email notification whenever there was activity

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks, Mark

 

[mcharley94]

Well the water fountain was busted off the wall last night :sad2: No suggestions from anyone?

 

[cyberwolf_uk]

Hi "mcharley94" if you are looking for a remote camera that can send you notifications via email / sms and also record video then take a look at the following. You would need to purchase a data sim $10 and a sd card $20 (32gb)
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fototrappola-Hunting-Scouting-Telecamera-Batteria/dp/B008S8EHTQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1460318624&sr=8-1&keywords=fototrappola

 

[Abbell]

I have installed covert cams before. I am sure for an ideal situation we would need some more information. You can get off with a cheap solution like:
A small micro cam or you can install dummy cameras like this one.

If you want a more sophisticated solution I am sure people here can offer better ideas. There are options for 4G Cradle point devices that can use the 4G network and cloud services. Then the camera options become numerous.
They make many vandal resistant cameras as well as covert cameras that can stream to a FTP server and/or an onsite NVR device. There are several people who use Powerline networking that could be an option as well.

As long as you have power (and some time when you don't) there are many options. Think about it and narrow down some ideas, needs vs goals, budget, etc and I am sure you can be assisted with input. I do not profess to be an expert in any form.

 

[CoreyX64]

As far as the equipment itself, I almost exclusively work with Hikvision. They integrate well together, the hardware is very reliable, and it's not terribly difficult to setup and configure. While there are several brands out there, this is what I work with and have had very good luck and no major failures whatsoever. Other people prefer other brands for different reasons, some critical reasons, others personal preference. Hikvision is far from perfect, but that goes for about every brand out there. Everything below is based on my personal experiences installing several systems with Hikvision equipment. Naturally, your mileage will vary from mine and anyone else's on here. Environment also can be a factor in some decisions.

Power:
Most every and all IP cameras in existence today are Power over Ethernet (PoE). Your only concern for line voltage should be where you plan to establish your recorder (NVR) and your networking/communications equipment.

Conspicuity:
Some IP cameras are smaller than others, but I'm not aware of any decent quality ones that are so discreet that you can't see them. The best you can do probably is carefully paint them to match their surroundings, if they aren't dark colored cameras. (e.g. a pearly white camera mounted on a wall with virtually any color but white will stick out like a sore thumb) With that being said, a pellet gun/airsoft gun will not damage a camera of any remotely decent build. Unless we're talking actual weapons, not a $10 walmart plastic airsoft gun, then that's obviously different, but I highly doubt that is your case. With that being said, never design a security mechanism/implementation based on the premise of others not seeing it. Security by obscurity is never a good approach standalone. When combined with other things, it does help, but should never be a single point of reliability because it will soon become your single point of failure once discovered.

Mounting:
If vandalism of the cameras themselves is a concern, a dome camera is a must. Bullets are much easier to screw up. (domes can be vandalized too, but it's a little less problematic because the camera is positioned inside and self contained). In the case of Hikvision, they make die cast aluminum brackets rated for outdoor use for most of their camera lines. Some are wall mounted conduit boxes that mount the dome sideways (if mounted on a wall), others are wall mounted mini-arms that mount the dome facing down. I prefer to mount the domes facing down and position afterwards accordingly because it seems to help with glare from security lighting at night and I notice less snow/rain buildup.

Email notifications:
I have never personally had the need to set anyone up with email notifications, but I know the NVRs are capable of that feature. However depending on the lighting and IR, snow and rain will reflect back into the iris and trigger motion recording. This is why some people don't waste time with motion recording and let it run all the time. I never do this just because of disk space reasons, but motion does make it easier to find video in the timeline. For true motion detection, adding PIRs (passive infrared motion sensors) is the way to go. This is what is used in most alarm systems to detect motion. PIRs are able to be configured sensitivity-wise to where it won't trigger for little things whereas the camera's built-in motion detection is ultimately based on pixel changes. It works, but does not compare to a PIR in accuracy and sensitivity.

Motion:
Motion can be configured on a schedule of your choosing. I can't recall exactly what Hikvision time blocks are divided into, but you can tell it to enable and disable motion based on time and day.

Remote access:
If landline service is not an option, most carriers offer mobile hotspots/USB modems to provide service. In this case, you will need something to host that connection. The cheap route is to get a very very power-efficient computer (extremely lightweight) and share that connection over ethernet to the recorder. (Think Intel Atom -esque lightweight) The more practical option is to buy a CradlePoint which is not the cheapest router you've ever seen but is quite reliable. The other thing is accessing from the outside. You're going to get a dynamic IP; fine, dynamic host names can work around that no problem. However the issue becomes routing as some/most carriers hand you a local, un-routable IP which will provide you with internet and internet only. Port forwarding, hosting a VPN, or anything that deviates from "normal" internet usage won't happen. Sprint, with it's currently offered Netgear 341U USB LTE modem is the only device that I have worked with that offers a WAN address over that USB port. Hook it up to a CradlePoint, make the appropriate setting changes in the CradlePoint, setup your dynamic hostname, and remote access is complete. I've only ever done this once about 2 months ago, and it worked very well. It was accomplished without a CradlePoint but worked just as well, just took a little bit longer to put the puzzle together. I could not accomplish this with an equivalent Verizon modem, however. It ultimately depends on the carrier and the device that they issue. Sprint issues Netgears, Verizon issues Pantech and Novatel, etc.

-----
EDIT: I just realized you only wanted one camera. Oops. Got carried away in thorough explanation. There are many standalone cameras (Hikvision and otherwise) that are fairly discreet, although I can't speak for their ingress rating. Whether it's in under a pavilion or outside in the bare elements, it must be an outdoor rated camera. Also, with recording, regardless of what you choose: While offsite backup/cloud is a good option, I would never recommend anyone use that as a primary. You typically always want onsite recording because it is not reliant on that cell tower to keep it alive. If your connection drops and something happens, you may lose something. No matter how reliable that cell tower might appear to be, by principle that is something you do not control. If you record onsite and offload/backup as a fallback, it isn't reliant on an outside entity to carry the heavy lifting. Outages can and do happen, but you don't want to plan things around them not happening.

 

[Fastb]

Mike, welcome to the forum!
@CoreyX64, Good advice! Especially about preparing for problems (dropped cell connection) and other vulnerabilities.

Another "belt & suspenders" protection might be a camera with an SD slot for memory card. (local recording). It could provide a backup to the NVR video storage. Yes, retrieving the SD card could be inconvenient (ladder, cover removal, etc). But only necessary if the NVR was damaged/vandalized.

You could mount your "real" camera up high, and mount sacrificial dummy cameras that would be vandalized first (with the vandalism being recorded). Dummy cams generally require batteries to power the flashing LED. Either run a wire to eliminate the 2 AA batteries, or not have the LED. (versus replacing batteries every 2 weeks).

The ability to surf IN over the internet for live viewing adds complexity. (BTW, it's a requirement for the system I'm creating). Sending snapshots OUT is easier. Maybe texts or emails w/ snapshots will help you alert the Police (the objective), without the complexity of surfing in for live video. The Cradlepoint modem could cost more than the camera, ie: hundreds.....

Remote access is discussed on another forum thread, with guidance from @nayr and @fenderman. See: https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/10114-Cellular-Modem-for-remote-access-to-NVR

 

[mcharley94]

That's more like it. TY very much for the replies to be sure. Allow me to clarify things a little. The pavilion (basically a poll barn) sets in the middle of several baseball / soccer fields. There is seasonal running water and bathrooms, and then there is an outdoor covered area with picnic tables. That's about it...no controlled environment (we're in the northeast US), and no office area or the likes to set up a hard wired computer. There is electricity, but no telephone / cable service. There is however a very viable 4G signal, the tower being just a few hundred feet away.

I myself have the Netrgears Arlo system in my home. Not real impressed with the system but it does the job for now. That is where I got the idea of motion activated / email notifications when something was detected at the pavilion, just like Arlo does for me here at home. When motion is detected it will record for a preset amount of time, or I can view a live feed. But because there is no wired internet access an the pavilion I don't see this type of system working out.

I am not against a constant feed being sent to a remote server / computer via a mobile network but I would think that would require a large data plan. hence why I was leaning towards motion activated. The municipality will be footing the bill, but it is a small village so resources are limited.

I did think of maybe mounting an inconspicuous 'dummy' camera out in the open to try and fool the perpetrators and then mount the real camera / cameras encased in some type of wooden box in an attempt to conceal them a bit.

I am confident via this conversation that we can come up with something that will accomplish what I seek. I am glad I found this forum as I am sure I will be upgrading my own security system in the near future. I wish I would have sough your assistance before I purchased the Arlo system. I was looking to avoid running wires around the house, small as it is, but now feel this would have been the better option.

Anyways, I digress, with the additional information above perhaps this will narrow down the recommended options? I look forward to more input that I can present to the board. I am rather tech savvy when it comes to computers and WiFi, but being self taught my knowledge is a somewhat limited.

Again I thank you all for assisting me,

Mark

 

[code2]

That's more like it. TY very much for the replies to be sure. Allow me to clarify things a little. The pavilion (basically a poll barn) sets in the middle of several baseball / soccer fields. There is seasonal running water and bathrooms, and then there is an outdoor covered area with picnic tables. That's about it...no controlled environment (we're in the northeast US), and no office area or the likes to set up a hard wired computer. There is electricity, but no telephone / cable service. There is however a very viable 4G signal, the tower being just a few hundred feet away.

I myself have the Netrgears Arlo system in my home. Not real impressed with the system but it does the job for now. That is where I got the idea of motion activated / email notifications when something was detected at the pavilion, just like Arlo does for me here at home. When motion is detected it will record for a preset amount of time, or I can view a live feed. But because there is no wired internet access an the pavilion I don't see this type of system working out.

I am not against a constant feed being sent to a remote server / computer via a mobile network but I would think that would require a large data plan. hence why I was leaning towards motion activated. The municipality will be footing the bill, but it is a small village so resources are limited.

I did think of maybe mounting an inconspicuous 'dummy' camera out in the open to try and fool the perpetrators and then mount the real camera / cameras encased in some type of wooden box in an attempt to conceal them a bit.

I am confident via this conversation that we can come up with something that will accomplish what I seek. I am glad I found this forum as I am sure I will be upgrading my own security system in the near future. I wish I would have sough your assistance before I purchased the Arlo system. I was looking to avoid running wires around the house, small as it is, but now feel this would have been the better option.

Anyways, I digress, with the additional information above perhaps this will narrow down the recommended options? I look forward to more input that I can present to the board. I am rather tech savvy when it comes to computers and WiFi, but being self taught my knowledge is a somewhat limited.

Again I thank you all for assisting me,

Mark

this sounds like its time to call in a hunting trail cam, no power needed can be hidden really well and the images surprising are good enough to identify someone. A small town shouldn't have to much of a hard time knowing everyone and anyone that lives in the area

http://bushnell.com/hunting/trail-cameras/trophy-cam/aggressor-no-glow

Add in one of these [h=4]Trophy Cam Security Case to prevent it from being stolen or accessed protecting the sd card[/h]and i bet it stops

 

[Abbell]

So you are leaning towards a camera with onboard storage via SD card and alerts with snapshot sent via email to text. Then you can alert the police if the snapshot shows anything and you can retributive the SD card for evidence. A camera that supports DDNS would make connecting easier when needed too, but overall this setup would limit the amount of bandwidth and equipment needed. Just mount the cameras far enough out of the way to make it harder for them to be directly attacked. A varifocal cam would be ideal so you can adjust the area it views at a better distance as needed. These guys will know what camera fits your needs more directly as I am just starting to play with IP cameras. The number of cameras you need would be determined by what views you want to keep an eye on. But several quality cameras, a few decoy cams and a connect should be well under $1000. Good example.. a 4 or 5MP camera zoomed in on the bathroom entrances and a decoy camera above the entrances as distraction. Open park bathrooms tend to inspire the worst of people.

 

[mcharley94]

A trail cam is not a bad idea at all to start. Being this area is huge on deer hunting one would think that would have crossed my mind. Still, it would be advantageous to be alerted when the act of violence was taking place so that the authorities could be called. It is no doubt a local group of kids and eventually it will stop....for a while until the next generation of hoodlums come of age. If we can capture the little punks hopefully the word will get out that we monitor the area and it will end.

 

[code2]

A trail cam is not a bad idea at all to start. Being this area is huge on deer hunting one would think that would have crossed my mind. Still, it would be advantageous to be alerted when the act of violence was taking place so that the authorities could be called. It is no doubt a local group of kids and eventually it will stop....for a while until the next generation of hoodlums come of age. If we can capture the little punks hopefully the word will get out that we monitor the area and it will end.

Ponder on this tho from one that does investigations for a living you're in a remote area its going to cost a bit of money for a camera install etc etc all for an alert which if the cell service is fast/reliable enough to send the image, then for you to receive it, then to react to notify the local sleeping cop, then their response time they would most likely be gone. Does it matter honestly if they are caught the same night or caught the next day the dirty dead was already completed and the charges don't change and you have the evidence. the biggest advantage them is you can move the camera around if needed with out having to rerun things etc etc. heck 1080p trail cams now can't beat it bear in mind every National forest cop when they have stuff like this going on has two trail cameras in their trucks at all times and deploy them CONSTANTLY for stuff like this

 

[mcharley94]

Point well taken, code2...makes total sense. I just did a brief google search for trail cams and I see there are ones that work over cellular service that will send a text and/or email when triggered....who knew? I am thinking something like this will probably suffice. Does anyone here have any experience with these at all? Maybe I should ask this question on a different sub-forum? Just looking for advice on the best option to suit my needs from someone who has experience with these type of cameras. You all are wonderful for taking the time to assist me with this. TY

 

[mcharley94]

First one to respond to my question and I overlooked it somehow. Sorry, cyberwolf_uk, and TY for the suggestion

 

[Javik]

Although you can use cellular data for remote camera access, make sure whatever cell service you use actually supports that, or your service may be terminated.

The lowball StraightTalk service bans that sort of use of a data SIM.

"The Straight Talk Unlimited Plan MAY NOT be used for unauthorized uses that adversely impact our Service. Examples of unauthorized uses include, without limitation, the following: (1) continuous uninterrupted mobile to mobile or mobile to landline voice calls; (2) automated text or picture messaging to another mobile device or e-mail address; (3) uploading, downloading or streaming of uninterrupted continuous video; (4) server devices or host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, automated machine-to-machine connections or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing; "

https://www.straighttalk.com/wps/portal/home/h/legal/terms-and-conditions

 

[Javik]

For a full size DVR system, there is such a thing as Ethernet to cell modem. Take a look at this Google image search, for example.

https://www.google.com/search?q=ethernet+to+cell+modem&tbm=isch

So with this you can use any standard DVR device with ethernet, plug it into the modem, install the data SIM in the modem, and you're online.



The main problem with an outdoor DVR install is that it's hot in the summer and freezing cold in the winter, plus rain, ice etc. Protection is available to stick indoor devices on a pole next to the cameras.

12x10x5 enclosure with 120v outlets, heater and fan, $262
http://www.l-com.com/nema-enclosures-12x10x5-inch-120-vac-nema-enclosure-w-solid-state-fan-heat-controller

14x12x7 enclosure with 120v outlets, heater and fan, $343
http://www.l-com.com/nema-enclosures-14x12x7-inch-ul-listed-120-vac-weatherproof-enclosure-w-solid-state-fan-and-heat-controller

18x16x8 enclosure with 120v outlets, heater and fan, $390
http://www.l-com.com/nema-enclosures-18x16x8-inch-120-vac-weatherproof-enclosure-w-solid-state-fan-heat-controller

20x16x11 enclosure with 120v outlets, heater and fan, $635
http://www.l-com.com/nema-enclosures-20x16x11-inch-120v-ac-weatherproof-enclosure-w-solid-state-fan-heat-controller

Cords are run into these enclosures from the bottom, so water can't get inside following the cables.

 

[CoreyX64]

Any game or hunting forums would be the place to go. Rarely will you find a "magic box" that does every little thing you want it to do, especially when it comes to cellular networks. You're going to end up having to have several components together to make what you want to work work properly and reliably. (Not saying there isn't one out there that does that) Every device that connects must be approved by that carrier, regardless of whether or not the frequencies line up and from a technical perspective, are compatible. They flat out will not let it on, compatible or not. While cellular devices are somewhat standardized, there is much tighter control over those frequencies because the carrier effectively owns them (paid an unbelievable amount of $ to the FCC to have exclusive rights over it), unlike say wifi devices. You can hook up anything to it that is electronically compatible. The odds of finding a hunting camera that is approved by one of the big 4? I'm skeptical. Do not buy anything outside of the US- global carriers operate differently than the US. While they do make global devices, I just can't imagine a hunting camera being that capable.

Not saying a hunting camera won't work, I just would never recommend it for a permanent solution. If it's for a municipality, regardless of size, I would think that a permanent CCTV setup would be the way to go. It's going to be more expensive, yes (not extremely expensive, depending on size), but it's there all the time and affixed to the structure. If I'm going to break or steal something, it's going to be those hunting cameras if I find them. That's small and easy to take/use/resell. You have to do a fine job of hiding/masquerading them.


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