Seeking advice for camera models and placement for home surveillance (photos)

gaines

n3wb
Mar 30, 2016
1
1
Seeking advice from surveillance gurus on how to determine the best hardware to provide 360-degree security and surveillance for our home.

Approach: I'm pulling Cat6 cable for PoE connections to a central server running Blue Iris and would like to avoid reliance on third-party services, such as those used by popular video doorbells. From the research I've done so far, it seems like the best approach may be to purchase fixed focal length bullet cameras for general coverage and a couple high-end PTZ cameras (ie. DH-SD8A840WA-HNF) that can respond to movement alerts for tracking, identification, and improved low-light imagery. Our budget is flexible and I'd rather pay a bit more for a better quality solution so long as we're not throwing thousands of dollars at unnecessary equipment or features which could be better addressed through planning and AI/automation.

Note: I've tinkered with the free versions of IPVM Calculator and JVSG IP Video System Design Tool to visualize how some of the recommended cameras would provide coverage, but am not sure how to determine ideal FOV and focal length using this approach.

Key Areas: I figured the best way to provide an overview of the property would be to take photos of the house from each area to be monitored, illustrating what camera locations could provide coverage.
1. Driveway: Deliveries and visitors enter from the driveway and this is the most critical area to have high-resolution coverage for identification. My tentative plan is to replace the old Reolink camera currently mounted under the eaves at the closest corner of the house with PTZ like the DH-SD8A840WA-HNF for both vehicle/plate identification and visitor tracking.
This first photo was taken at approximately 150' away from the house at an elevation drop of about 20'. There's also a separate workshop building to the left of this photo which is somewhat obscured from the house by trees, but currently only has weak wireless signal from the house. The second driveway photo is from the pull off where visitors usually park, approximately 50' from the house and an elevation drop of around 5'. The third driveway photo is from the top in front of our garage where delivery drivers usually park, less than 20' from the house.
Driveway-Workshop.jpgDriveway-Parking.jpgDriveway-Top.jpg

2. Front Entrance: Since most visitors come to the front door, it seems wise to ensure sufficient quality facial images for identification. A video doorbell seems like a perfect solution except that the ones I'm familiar with rely on third-party services rather than standard protocols like ONVIF. I previously attempted mounting another Reolink beside the front door, but realize that both the hardware and location limit it's effectiveness.
FrontWalk.jpgFrontSteps.jpgFrontPorch.jpg

3. Front and Side Yard: It's unlikely any intruders would approach from these directions besides a neighbor or utility workers, but these areas are worth monitoring for unexpected visitors up to around 75' from the house. I figured a wide FOV camera at the front-left corner eaves would provide motion detection for triggering tracking by a PTZ.
FrontYard.jpgSideYard.jpg

4. Basement Entrance: We've never had a stranger approach our basement entrance, but we plan on renovating it for guests and should at least be able to monitor anyone lurking or trying to break in. A camera mounted at the rear corner of the house could monitor this area without being obstructed by the balcony, but it would be ~30' up only providing an overhead view so I'm considering another wall-mounted PTZ/dome for identification.
SideGate.jpgBasement-Rear.jpgBasement-Front.jpg

5: Deck and Playground: While it's extremely unlikely any visitors would reach this point without passing through previous areas, this is where our young children play and we'd want the ability to monitor them. It's possible much of this area could be visible by the high-quality PTZ overlooking the driveway, but we'd be less concerned with identifying intruders in this area than keeping an eye on the kids as they play and determining where they went if they wander off. It might also be a good idea to have a view of the back sliding doors, but any potential intruders should have already been identified before they get to this point so I'm not sure it's worth investing in a camera with such a limited view.
Playground-Far.jpgPlayground-Near.jpgDeck.jpgDeck-Slide.jpgBackYard-Corner.jpg
 
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Seeking advice from surveillance gurus on how to determine the best hardware to provide 360-degree security and surveillance for our home.

Approach: I'm pulling Cat6 cable for PoE connections to a central server running Blue Iris and would like to avoid reliance on third-party services, such as those used by popular video doorbells. From the research I've done so far, it seems like the best approach may be to purchase fixed focal length bullet cameras for general coverage and a couple high-end PTZ cameras (ie. DH-SD8A840WA-HNF) that can respond to movement alerts for tracking, identification, and improved low-light imagery. Our budget is flexible and I'd rather pay a bit more for a better quality solution so long as we're not throwing thousands of dollars at unnecessary equipment or features which could be better addressed through planning and AI/automation.

Note: I've tinkered with the free versions of IPVM Calculator and JVSG IP Video System Design Tool to visualize how some of the recommended cameras would provide coverage, but am not sure how to determine ideal FOV and focal length using this approach.

Key Areas: I figured the best way to provide an overview of the property would be to take photos of the house from each area to be monitored, illustrating what camera locations could provide coverage.
1. Driveway: Deliveries and visitors enter from the driveway and this is the most critical area to have high-resolution coverage for identification. My tentative plan is to replace the old Reolink camera currently mounted under the eaves at the closest corner of the house with PTZ like the DH-SD8A840WA-HNF for both vehicle/plate identification and visitor tracking.
This first photo was taken at approximately 150' away from the house at an elevation drop of about 20'. There's also a separate workshop building to the left of this photo which is somewhat obscured from the house by trees, but currently only has weak wireless signal from the house. The second driveway photo is from the pull off where visitors usually park, approximately 50' from the house and an elevation drop of around 5'. The third driveway photo is from the top in front of our garage where delivery drivers usually park, less than 20' from the house.
View attachment 112177View attachment 112178View attachment 112179

2. Front Entrance: Since most visitors come to the front door, it seems wise to ensure sufficient quality facial images for identification. A video doorbell seems like a perfect solution except that the ones I'm familiar with rely on third-party services rather than standard protocols like ONVIF. I previously attempted mounting another Reolink beside the front door, but realize that both the hardware and location limit it's effectiveness.
View attachment 112180View attachment 112181View attachment 112182

3. Front and Side Yard: It's unlikely any intruders would approach from these directions besides a neighbor or utility workers, but these areas are worth monitoring for unexpected visitors up to around 75' from the house. I figured a wide FOV camera at the front-left corner eaves would provide motion detection for triggering tracking by a PTZ.
View attachment 112183View attachment 112184

4. Basement Entrance: We've never had a stranger approach our basement entrance, but we plan on renovating it for guests and should at least be able to monitor anyone lurking or trying to break in. A camera mounted at the rear corner of the house could monitor this area without being obstructed by the balcony, but it would be ~30' up only providing an overhead view so I'm considering another wall-mounted PTZ/dome for identification.
View attachment 112185View attachment 112188View attachment 112187

5: Deck and Playground: While it's extremely unlikely any visitors would reach this point without passing through previous areas, this is where our young children play and we'd want the ability to monitor them. It's possible much of this area could be visible by the high-quality PTZ overlooking the driveway, but we'd be less concerned with identifying intruders in this area than keeping an eye on the kids as they play and determining where they went if they wander off. It might also be a good idea to have a view of the back sliding doors, but any potential intruders should have already been identified before they get to this point so I'm not sure it's worth investing in a camera with such a limited view.
View attachment 112189View attachment 112190View attachment 112191View attachment 112192View attachment 112186


Welcome @gaines

"Seeking advice from surveillance gurus on how to determine the best hardware to provide 360-degree security and surveillance for our home"

A full 360 will be a significant amount of cameras .. seeing you have a brick home you are probably looking at running conduits on the outside walls ..

Share with us your typical functional goal you see a security camera system helping out.

Remember, also you want a security alarm system.

What are your current plans with regards to cabling? Have you figured out how to run the lines?
 
You're major challenge is the height of the eaves. They are far too high to get effective identification at the ranges you're talking about on the sides and rear. At those heights all you'll get is that someone/something is there and the top of heads. A PTZ would work for the driveway but a varifocal, mounted lower, would do the same job but only at longer ranges. Plan on multiple cameras just for the garage, one on each side and one in the center. They all need to be no higher than the top of the overhead door to be effective. For a doorbell look at the Dahua Villa station Review-IP Villa Outdoor Doorbell Station & Indoor Monitor Kit it can be used in Blue Iris without the monitor station or with both. It's not as small as the WiFi stuff, but is PoE and ONVIF compliant.
 
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Another one burned by the Reolinks....

You need to identify the areas you want to cover and pick a camera designed to cover that distance. In some instances, it may be a 2MP or 4MP that is the right camera. Based on what you are showing, unless you mount lower, fixed cams will only be good overview points but not IDENTIFY capable.

The calculators and charts you reference are a guide, but I wouldn't go by those 100%. Those are under ideal conditions like a camera at face height.

For example, if you place a camera on the side of your house that looks roughly 25-30 feet up on the 2nd story soffit and someone stands 1 foot away from your house, all you will see is the top of their head, even though according to charts and calculators you should be able to IDENTIFY from that distance. The distances in the chart are assuming the cameras are placed at head height. All of the IDENTIFY distance was lost in the vertical

The higher the camera is placed, the more OPTICAL zoom is needed to "flatten the angle". My PTZ on the 2nd floor gives me a great level shot of someone 200 feet away because that distance helps to flatten the angle. With a fixed cam lens, you get what you get.

It is why we recommend to purchase one good varifocal and test it at all the proposed locations day and night to figure out the correct focal lengths and cams.

A few other tips....It is simple LOL do not chase MP - do not buy a 4MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/1.8" sensor. Do not buy a 2MP camera that is anything smaller than a 1/2.8" sensor. Do not buy a 4K (8MP) camera on anything smaller than a 1/1.2" sensor. Unfortunately, most 4k (8MP) cams are on the same sensor as a 2MP and thus the 2MP will kick its butt all night long as the 4k will need 4 times the light than the 2MP... 4k will do very poor at night unless you have stadium quality lighting (well a lot of lighting LOL). Starlight, ColorVu, Full Color, etc. are simply marketing terms, so don't be sold on those names.

While we are at it, let's make sure you get the right camera...

To identify someone with the wide-angle 2.8mm lens that most people opt for, someone would have to be within 13 feet of the camera, but realistically within 10 feet after you dial it in to your settings.


1639680440410.png



My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his four 2.8mm fixed lens 4k cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away. Meanwhile my 2MP varifocal optically zoomed 60 feet away to the public sidewalk provided the money shot to the police to get my neighbors all their stuff back. Nobody else had video that could provide anything useful, other than what time this motion blur ghost was at their car.

Here are my general distance recommendations, but switch out the Dahua 5442 series camera to the equivalent 2MP on the 1/2.8" sensor or equivalent Hikvision works as well. These cameras meet all your requirements.
  • 5442 fixed lens 2.8mm - anything within 10 feet of camera OR as an overview camera
  • 5442 ZE - varifocal - distances up to 40-50 feet (personally I wouldn't go past the 30 foot range but I like things closer)
  • 5442 Z4E - anything up to 80-100 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 60 feet but I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - anything from 80 feet to almost 200 feet (personally I wouldn't go past 150 feet because I like things closer)
  • 5241-Z12E - for a license plate cam that you would angle up the street to get plates up to about 175 feet away, or up to 220 with additional IR.
  • 49225 PTZ - great auto-track PTZ and in conjunction with an NVR or Blue Iris and the cameras above that you can use as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location to compliment the fixed cams.
You need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A wide angle 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who.

One camera cannot be the be all, see all. Each one is selected for covering a specific area. Most of us here have different brands and types, from fixed cams, to varifocals, to PTZs, each one selected for it's primary purpose and to utilize the strength of that particular camera.

So you will need to identify the distance the camera would be from the activities you want to IDENTIFY on and purchase the correct camera for that distance as an optical zoom.

If you want to see things far away, you need optical zoom, digital zoom only works in the movies and TV...And the optical zoom is done real time - for a varifocal it is a set it and forget it. You cannot go to recorded video and optically zoom in later, at that point it is digital zoom, and the sensors on these cameras are so small which is why digital zoom doesn't work very well after the fact.

Main keys are you can't locate the camera too high (not on the 2nd story or above 7 feet high unless it is for overview and not Identification purposes unless it is a PTZ or varifocal that can "flatten the angle by optically zooming further out) or chase MP and you need to get the correct camera for the area trying to be covered. A 2.8mm to IDENTIFY someone 40 feet away is the wrong camera regardless of how good the camera is. A 2.8mm camera to IDENTIFY someone within 10 feet is a good choice OR it is an overview camera to see something happened but not be able to identify who. Also, do not chase marketing phrases like ColorVu and Starlight and Full Color and the like - all cameras need light - simple physics...

We recommend a purchase of one good varifocal and test it at all the proposed locations day and night to figure out the correct focal lengths and cams.


A trusted vendor here is Andy @EMPIRETECANDY that sells Dahua and Hikvision OEM cameras.

Amazon.com

Regarding a camera for plates (LPR) - keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

1639680486616.png


Because of this, a PTZ to serve double duty as a way to track visitors and plate identification will not work. As you can see, at night all you will see are plates and head/tail lights. In addition, because it is so dark, the focus needs to be set before it gets dark, so once a PTZ starts moving around at night, it will be useless for plates.
 
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My typical layout is to have a camera on each end of each side of a house looking back toward the other end of the house. That way every camera is "watched" by another camera. If the sides of the house are fairly long, say 50 feet or greater, another camera gets mounted dead center between the ends and looks straight out to fill in all gaps. In entry way areas another two is a good idea, one to get a full face shot of visitors as they approach and are near the door and a second to watch package drop off areas.

This makes a "normal" house need 10 to 14 cameras. Then add in a garage with three cameras and any special purpose cameras as well, like PTZs or to watch more remote/hidden spots. Add more if there are projections to the house, like bays or breakfast nook style extensions. The whole idea is to get positive identification no matter which way an approach is made. Anything less is no help when the rubber meets the road.