Setting up PTZ and choosing Spotter cams...

Ri22o

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This might be a little all over the place, so bear with me.

I have a SD4A425DB-HNY PTZ that I am trying to make more useful. It was originally on the second floor soffit, but I had installed it before the trees had leafed. Now it can't see the sidewalks in front of my house nearly as well and it is only going to get worse as the trees grow. I decided last night to move it down to the first floor soffit to replace another camera and see how I like it (it will likely stay here).

It is going to have a shorter working distance now, but I will take being able to actually use it over being able to see more.

My goals:
Primary: Use auto-tracking to capture/track people, on the approach, on the sidewalk in front of my house.
Secondary: Use auto-tracking to capture/track people, on the approach, in the street and on the sidewalk across the street.

I will likely need to add dedicated spotters to get reliable triggers to call the PTZ to a preset since I don't think the cameras I have now can see far enough to detect a human and trigger the IVS rule to give the PTZ enough time to get to position. My concern is, even if I do get a varifocal for spotter use and point it at the desired trigger areas, that the spotter cams might work fine during the day and be able to look that way at night, but might not be able to "see" at night due to lack of light at these distances.

These are the presets I would call to with the spotter cams and it would likely be parked over the driveway as the default, but I am open to suggestions on what a good home position would be. Ideally I would like the spotters to call the PTZ to these positions and be waiting well before the subject would be in the FOV.

Sidewalk 2023-05-15 09.28.14.842 AM.jpgSidewalk 2023-05-15 09.29.23.735 AM.jpg


These are the only two views I have that would be usable as spotter cams which is why I am leaning towards putting up dedicated spotter cams. I do have the possibility of the corner of the garage above the single bay door for the right view, but I feel it will eventually be obstructed.

Another option is to have the PTZ home to the left position and be its own spotter cam saving the need for another cam in that direction, which could be helpful, and then just worry about finding a way to get adequate light down the sidewalk, and across the street, to make the right spotter usable.

If a spotter is used for the left view my thought is to have the trigger be near the trash cans (on both sides of the street).
If I am using the PTZ then it will already be looking that way, but I may have it favor the far side of the street at night with the near sidewalk in view, but not the focus.
For the right view I would want a trigger on the far side between the speed limit sign and tree and the near side at the neighbor's driveway. (This is when IVS choosing in BI would be helpful so I could direct the PTZ to far or near preset depending on trigger...)

I have IR floods, but are there reasonable IR spots available that I could get better throw from to possibly light up the sidewalk across the street?
Any recommendations for an inexpensive varifocal with AI to use as a spotter? I would prefer a turret but know that I will likely need more than 12mm and might need to settle on a bullet. I was considering a refurb Z4E next to the driveway cam, when one becomes available. Are there other 2MP options that would have better night performance?

Front Yard 2023-05-15 09.30.04.683 AM.jpg Driveway 2023-05-15 09.30.32.785 AM.jpg


For reference, the PTZ moved down from the second floor soffit and replaced the 5442 on the first floor soffit.

54A2AF2B-7163-4359-BF42-69D5E44FB45A.jpg
 

Phil.g00

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I am new to this myself and intend to do something similar.
To this end, I intend to use thermal cameras as spotter cams.
 

Ri22o

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I am new to this myself and intend to do something similar.
To this end, I intend to use thermal cameras as spotter cams.
Thermal would be nice, but I am also trying to do this on the more inexpensive side, haha.
 

mattp

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Thermal would be nice, but I am also trying to do this on the more inexpensive side, haha.
Night is going to be a struggle especially across the street. You have no street lights?
Trying to capture the other side of the street may be difficult with out some additional light.

If you can consider just trying to capture just your property, you could look at putting lights here:
1684167868283.png

I have a couple of dumb cameras, 2231's. I wish I'd have spent $10 more for the spotter cams and got 3241's (which have human and vehicle detection). But, I'm using motion and it works fine.

It's been a while since I set it up, but I think you can use human detection to trigger the PTZ. @wittaj helped me with it, but there are a few threads here on how it works. It really should be in the wiki because I think having a PTZ turn and track someone on your property is a HUGE deterrent.
 

Ri22o

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Night is going to be a struggle especially across the street. You have no street lights?
Trying to capture the other side of the street may be difficult with out some additional light.

If you can consider just trying to capture just your property, you could look at putting lights here:
View attachment 163113

I have a couple of dumb cameras, 2231's. I wish I'd have spent $10 more for the spotter cams and got 3241's (which have human and vehicle detection). But, I'm using motion and it works fine.

It's been a while since I set it up, but I think you can use human detection to trigger the PTZ. @wittaj helped me with it, but there are a few threads here on how it works. It really should be in the wiki because I think having a PTZ turn and track someone on your property is a HUGE deterrent.
We have street lights at intersections, and that's it. I have several IR floods over my front yard, which helps, but I need the light to get a little further than what I have will reach.

Ultimately I am mostly just worried about my property, so if it comes down to only being able to track when someone is on my side of the street, then it is what it is.

I am currently set up with using IVS rules with human triggers to call the PTZ, but with the 3.6mm driveway cam and 2.8mm yard cam the sidewalk is just a bit far away for it to reliably trigger and command the motion for the PTZ.
 

wittaj

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As long as you acknowledge that they are true spotter cams, you can run the shutters a lot slower at night to let the image be bright and allow the AI to pick up people.
 

Ri22o

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As long as you acknowledge that they are true spotter cams, you can run the shutters a lot slower at night to let the image be bright and allow the AI to pick up people.
I have the home for the PTZ set for the left position, I will see how it does later tonight.

Any recommendations for a cam to use as a spotter going the other way?
 

wittaj

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The 3241s mentioned above are solid choices

But like I said, as long as you recognize this would be just overview/spotter cams, you could get by with a cheaper Amcrest even if it is on the less than ideal MP/sensor ratio if you are looking to keep costs down. you slow the shutter to 1/25 or 1/30 and the image will be bright enough for the camera to pick up a human and trigger. Obviously at the slower shutter there will be blur, but that is what you other cameras are for.
 
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Ri22o

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I think I will need something more than a 2.8mm, but I could be wrong? The driveway 4K-X is a 3.6mm, for reference.

Is there anything on Andy's list that would be viable?
 

wittaj

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Do you have a 2.8 or varifocal set to 2.8 that you could try?
 

Ri22o

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There was a 2.8mm 5442 where I just put the PTZ. I could cobble something together with that.
 

Ri22o

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But, I will also see if maybe the 4K-X will pick someone up now that I have the IVS rules set for both cams. I just know I have been struggling with it detecting a human at that distance across the street.

I am also not opposed, assuming the 4K-X will do it's job on the close sidewalk, to having a spotter to cover just the far sidewalk at distance and then calling the PTZ to a preset there.
 

wittaj

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It was probably struggling because you were using a faster shutter?

Throw it on auto/default and see if it will trigger (obviously with blurring)
 

Ri22o

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I don't know what the advertised max distance is for the AI to detect a human or vehicle, but it's probably 160-180' feet for the 4K-X to reach out to where I would want to trigger and call the PTZ on the sidewalk across the street.

I will see how everything changes as it gets dark later.
 

wittaj

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According to the DORI you should be able to? I guess we find out tonight.
 

Ri22o

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Maybe the 4K-X works, having the PTZ home to the left works, and I look for another spotter just to send it to a preset across the street to the right.
 

Ri22o

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PTZ home left seems to be ok, for the time being and a possible solution to tracking from that side.

The 4K-X is not reliably triggering during the day at that distance and does not have enough light that far out at night to even try.
 

Ri22o

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A bit of an update on my progress.

I still need to work on dialing in the night settings, but I am getting there. The other side of the street might be a challenge, though.

For now, until I decide on how to handle spotter cams, this is my home preset. It parks here and monitors these IVS rules. It has been pretty good during the day (for both sides of the street) at picking someone up and getting on them before they are too far and I see the side/back of their head.
1684434172185.png

This is the other approach to my house and the preset it gets called to by the spotter. When it does get called, it has done a good job of detecting and following. I updated these tripwires today and think they are doing a better job.
1684434419435.png

This is what I have set up for the right side spotter. The tripwires/intrusion box could be better, but it seems to work somewhat reliably for testing purposes at what I feel is the limit of the AI person detection. Unfortunately the 4K-X (3.6mm) does not work well at this distance during night hours so I will need to come up with a solution. One idea is two spotters; one focused on the near sidewalk and one focused on the far sidewalk. However, I feel the ideal scenario would be one camera covering both areas (possibly off of the soffit above the trash cans) and then set the specific IVS rules to different PTZ presets. (<<Is this working yet?) This would allow me to also have a far sidewalk preset and get the camera pre-positioned sooner for a better capture.
1684435154771.png
 

Timokreon

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Sounds like you need another PTZ ;)
I have my mini-ptz looking straight down my driveway at the moment. I don't get a good head on shot this way so I may change mine somewhat like your setup. I want to keep my mailbox in view the entire time, which limits how to set things.

Though I do plan on moving my mini to the front porch and put a bigger PTZ over the driveway, later this year.
 

Ri22o

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I think I am in the sweet spot of where I can mount mine, at least on the lower soffit. I would probably give up too much one direction or the other if I tried to move it to the front of the garage.
 
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