Smart Electrical Panels, Yes?
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Mike A.
Known around here
- May 6, 2017
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Most all of my home control and monitoring is at a much more granular level so I'm not sure that a smart panel gives me much relative to the expense. I guess it would be handy to reset a breaker without going down to do it but rare that any of mine trip and too much just for that. Can't think of many use cases where I'd want to on/off branches in some automated way.
Holy crap that is a scary video.
I lived in California for 14 years. At some point, you could get this cool INDOOR electric usage reporting device so you could track your bill, power used, and a LIVE stream of your power being drawn currently. I could tell when the oven got turned on, or the AC kicked in. I would love to see that kind of data where I live now.
Personally I’m not a fan of the so called Smart TSTAT / Locks. I don’t use either because the vast majority back in the day were solely cloud based.
Anyone serious about security doesn’t use or have infrastructure tied to the cloud!
As it relates to Energy Monitoring the only hardware I use along with Fortune 500, Military, Hospital, Enterprise, Insert any serious installation is the Brultech GEM & Dash Box.
Not any of the toy like monitors like TED, Sense, insert any other brand.
As it relates to a Smart Panel it really depends upon the environment, installation, and use case.
Every site I managed had a so called Smart Panel. The primary goal was load shedding and ToU to reduce power consumption.
In other sites it was used as a method for security and protection. Lightning coming your way?!?
No problem send a soft shutdown to all network infrastructure and than kill the branch circuit.
Lightning surge / spike?!? Nope!
People trying to steal power for whatever reason ?!? No problem kill all the outside outlets from this time to Y.
Maintenance happening?!?
No problem - I just killed the power so the guy on the sky jack can replace that 240 VAC transformer with out dying!
In a home - Again it starts with a lifestyle and a focus on long term goals and needs. Don’t ever focus on ROI because it simply won’t pencil out!
It’s about having the ability at a macro level to do X vs Y vs at a micro level (point of use).
NickTheGreat
Pulling my weight
I have the home automation affliction and am interesting in monitoring my existing panel. Not replacing with a smart panel.
I have watched a bunch of videos on the Emporia one, and there's others out there too. I think it is something I'm comfortable with installing myself. I am also interesting in installing a generator interlock kit, and would probably do all this at the same time while I've got the main power killed.
I have watched a bunch of videos on the Emporia one, and there's others out there too. I think it is something I'm comfortable with installing myself. I am also interesting in installing a generator interlock kit, and would probably do all this at the same time while I've got the main power killed.
BORIStheBLADE
Getting comfortable
I agree on smart locks. I just can't understand why people would want to trade security for convivence. I guess the counter argument is that no regular residential lock is really "secure". But I simply don't see the benefit of using smart locks in our situation. It's not like I have a bunch of people coming to my house when I am not there that I need to "let in." If I did, then perhaps my feelings would change on the subject.
As far as smart thermostats, we love ours. Of course it is NOT a cloud solution. In fact it's hardwired to both the HVAC unit and the automation system, so there isn't any "wireless" element to the system either. We set various temperatures automatically based on the home alarm status which IMHO is a much better indicator of occupancy/actual use than any "time" schedule can be. So it's one temp when it's disarmed, but different temps for for armed away, armed vacation, or armed night. (Unlike many households with alarm systems, we actually use the alarm and use all of those armed statuses properly). The HVAC system will also automatically come out of "night" mode and into "home" mode at a certain time in the morning to ensure the house is back to normal before we wake up (and long before we might disarm the alarm). The biggest benefit is the fact that all of this happens automatically (which is the point of an automation system). It also doesn't matter if our schedule changes (don't get home at a normal hour, or go back out after arriving home, or stay up later than normal, etc), since the temps change with the alarm status, not some preprogrammed time based schedule.
PS - I agree that Brultech is one of the companies I would recommend for energy monitoring solutions. You definitely don't want to buy some cheap Chinese crap off Amazon!
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Great use case as it relates to a Smart TSTAT. As it relates to so called Smart Locks I’ve seen good use cases such as rental housing to those with physical disabilities.
It’s not the technology per say I oppose it’s the lack of serious understanding and security.
One of the greatest inventions has been the Internet. As such it has allowed and empowered all of us to communicate and connect to offsite services / products.
It’s the endless threats from bad actors and corporations hell bent in squeezing out every wooden nickel!
Speaking for myself only having travelled the Home Automation to Energy Management field.
My long term goals are to keep mission critical infrastructure completely independent, isolated, and dumb.
Every single day we get closer to the movie Terminator Judgement Day. Along with Sci-Fi world ending outcomes like BSG.
Back on topic:
As it relates to Smart Panels my position is buy only systems that allow standard off the shelf breakers and smart breakers.
Whether it be the Stab-Lok style vs other.
Doing so in the worst case scenario allows a person to not only upgrade at their own pace but also reduces the initial cost.
The biggest pain point is the various makers don’t all offer API / Local access never mind tight integration with what I consider industry standards.
Other problems the vast majority of makers don’t address with their so called smart breakers is surge / spike protection.
Lastly, depending upon where you live in North America code forbids a person having the ability to turn on a breaker remotely!
Turning off is never a problem . . .
I'd like to monitor each circuit.... it might reveal when a certain appliance is using far more energy than normal which you;d be a problem. It would show how loaded each circuit is from day to day. I'm not sure how I might need to toggle off a load. Perhaps its safer to toggle off loads that are not in use when you are away. Might that prevent a fire? Not sure.
Wouldn't you want to Monitor the Appliance instead? I am sure you could setup sensors on the main power consuming Appliance, Refrig., Freezer, AC Unit, etc. Smart Plugs that Monitor Power will work on most things except AC unit.
Amazon.com
www.amazon.com
If you don't want to be on TP-Link's Cloud you could use Smart Plugs that allow Tasmota install.
Amazon.com
www.amazon.com
Home Assistant is a must when running a local home automation network. Hubitat and SmartThings are ok alternatives.
BORIStheBLADE
Getting comfortable
I get it. Its really your money so do what you want, but I've been in the electrical industry for over 20 years to see brands come and go. Also see a shortage of parts that were hard to source. If these panels can use that brand specific regular traditional breakers in a pinch I say go for it. IF you can only use specific breakers to this product I'd steer clear.
There are numerous device you can hook up to your panel that can be used to monitor your usage and also tie into stuff like Home assistant. That is a option that you probably have seen already.
Firstly, I'd steer clear of SqD and Siemens breakers. They both produce a lot of false trips. Eaton is much more reliable.
When I looked at this arena two years ago IotaWatt was the clear winner for me. No cloud or subscription, more accurate, and lots of options for data output/viewing.
The downside is that since it's open source you need a little more know how than the average American homeowner as it doesn't hold your hand as much as others. If you have some coding/data experience then you can do even more with it. There were several people wanting to re-package it in to a more user friendly package and I'd think they'd be close to market from what I remember from the last time I checked.
Realistically if you want very granular and accurate data you need a combination of individual circuit monitors and heuristic analysis to get a full picture and IotaWatt was also the only option for that.
When I looked at this arena two years ago IotaWatt was the clear winner for me. No cloud or subscription, more accurate, and lots of options for data output/viewing.
The downside is that since it's open source you need a little more know how than the average American homeowner as it doesn't hold your hand as much as others. If you have some coding/data experience then you can do even more with it. There were several people wanting to re-package it in to a more user friendly package and I'd think they'd be close to market from what I remember from the last time I checked.
Realistically if you want very granular and accurate data you need a combination of individual circuit monitors and heuristic analysis to get a full picture and IotaWatt was also the only option for that.
Smilingreen
Known around here
I just love my dumb house. Dumb electricity, dumb water, dumb HVAC, dumb foundation, dumb windows and doors, dumb insulation, dumb steel roof, dumb appliances. I don't need data for anything my house does or doesn't do. If something isn't adjusted or work the way I want it, I just get up out of my chair and manually adjust it. I don't need a database floating around in google or fartbooks server farms of how many times a day the fridge door opens, who opens it, duration of being open blah, blah, blah. And.....I am totally good with that. But, some people may think it vastly improves their lives that they have all of that data available to them at 3:29AM, while they are sitting on the toilet taking a pee. They can have it. And, I am totally good with that.
Had to replace our Eaton ARC Breakers; they would trip way too easily, actually one circuit, our Master Bathroom was tripping all the time, it was a pain getting up at night with no lights. Ended up unplugging everything off the circuit, replaced all the plugs/switches, still had false trips. I contacted an Electrical Supply and they said the first generation of most all brands of ARC breakers, not just Eaton, were designed bad, I bought new Eaton ARC breakers and never had any problems after that. Should of replaced in the first place but since the others only tripped maybe once or twice a year I focused on the Master Bathroom tripping monthly.
I'll simply say that while the Google, Apple, and other residential grade "automation" devices are popular, they do not represent the "real" home automation segment. There are consumer devices sold to the masses and rely on simplicity over anything else (such as security). Just like this forum would never recommend a "cloud based" CCTV system, I would never recommend a "cloud based" automation device either. Unfortunately there are plenty of people falling for the "cloud based" home automation devices just like they fall for the "cloud based" CCTV solutions too.
The good news is that there are plenty of systems that run 100% locally and keep your information private by default.
Does your TV have a Remote?
Back in the day before the "Clickers" the parents would have the kids change the channels for them, I know, my first job was a Channel Changer, lol
For me it is a hobby. I have kinda always been a data collector. When we sold our house last month I was collecting the data given by the advertising and Zillow's Views/Saves and put it in a database to help us know when we needed to drop the price to get more Saves/Traffic. It was actually pretty spot on for us. Our Realtor had us do a $1k drop every other day, $5k total for 10 days, what this did was notify the Saves and got them looking at our property again. We did see the Views go up but the Buyer came when we did our last $5k drop. We only had to drop total of $10k to find that sweet spot to Sale. Anyway, I also have a spreadsheet of how many KWH we use monthly which helps in determining which Electrical Plan works best for us. We have Saved ALOT of money doing this over the years.
This Usage is from a 1900 sq. ft. one story house with a Pool. 2021-2022 increase is when the wife started working from home
, no more keeping AC at 78 during the day, lolThe 5 year plan we signed up for in 2018 really paid off (6 cents KWH), when the plan ended Jan 2024,
prices were at 10 cents per KWH...which we had to pay with No-Plan till the house sold in Sept.
I can see a Smart Panel being used in a warehouse full of equipment to possibly help in determining when a motor is over loading or to analyze power consumption on certain brands or to save on usage times, etc.
Why millions of Americans give up control of their thermostats
HOUSTON - Last September, in the final days of what was then the hottest summer in human history, scorching temperatures threatened to knock out the Texas power grid. As air conditioners around the state strained to keep homes and businesses cool in 100-plus-degree heat, the state’s grid...
BORIStheBLADE
Getting comfortable
Yeah Those Arc fault breakers are junk. They get very hot compared to traditional GFI breakers or regular ones. I've had to replace a ton of them between 2019- current. My parents house had Seimens breakers which they had a recall on I believe.
I personally feel they should have left ARC in the bedrooms instead of expanding the code through the house.
Smilingreen
Known around here
Nah, EV chargers don't use any coal fired power. They're 100% green........Instead of shutting everyones air off, I suggest they shut off all of the EV chargers. Just think how much energy could be saved.......Why millions of Americans give up control of their thermostats
HOUSTON - Last September, in the final days of what was then the hottest summer in human history, scorching temperatures threatened to knock out the Texas power grid. As air conditioners around the state strained to keep homes and businesses cool in 100-plus-degree heat, the state’s grid...www.yahoo.com