Solution to add a couple LPR cameras — here's my setup in question

[Dave88LX]

NVR: NVR5416-4KS2
Cam: IPC-HFW5431E-Z5
State: Pennsylvania, rear plates only
After doing a lot of reading on here, I see myself upgrading to BI in the future. For now, just going to keep trucking with this NVR and getting cameras up and going.

I'd like to add a pair of cameras to grab plates. My thought is to mount them on the vertical surface of the front of the house, below the eaves. Soffit-mounted is also a possibility.
Vertical surface, or soffit, and why?

Being that I'm on the corner of this circle, I have the angles to get both directions pretty well before the cars round the corners.





Thinking of putting the two cameras at the red circle area.
Did the math on the angle, and at the height of ~25', it's nowhere near the 30* max angle that I see recommended.





I might be able to squeeze a couple cables out of the existing hole in the house, or, exit in that orange circle area using an LB possibly? Open to ideas.
Running in some sort of conduit on the front of the house right next to the white corner trim is one option.
Running up the side of the house is another option, more "hidden", but then have the issue of coming forward and around the corner trim to the front of the house.





There's room to "tuck" them behind the corner, possibly, but no good way to hold them in there, and they'd also be exposed.





Phone camera view from the window corner, next to the proposed mounting location, looking at the "blue line" on the map:






https://photos.google.com/printstore
View of the blue line:






What do you guys think my best course of action is?
Also would need to pick up a second camera.
Recommendation? I'll do some reading as well.

 

[wittaj]

Up on the second story is fine.

The 5241-Z12E would be the camera of choice.

I would say get two cams to get them coming and going.

 

[Dave88LX]

Sorry, I should have clarified.

Yes I plan on having two cameras up there, one pointing out the red line and one pointing out the blue line.

I'll give that cam a look tonight.

 

[wittaj]

The Z12E is the most commonly used and recommended camera for LPR (manual reading not automated reading by the camera) due to its cost and large focal length range.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night with a 1/2,000 shutter and 8 FPS of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my Z12E that is on the 2nd story soffit with no street lights. Camera is 35 feet above street at this location.

These work great if you already have a cable there. Many of us use these for LPR next to an overview cam.

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-Extender-Repeater-Ethernet-Splitter/dp/B07RQ569MF/ref=sr_1_23?imprToken=eNnu.Pmf5hsW5hcTVECAQg&linkCode=w61&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1674002578&redirect=true&s=merchant-items&slotNum=0&sr=1-23

Also see the LPR subforum and this great thread

New to LPR? Considerations Before You Begin

Thought I would throw together a post on my experiences so far with LPR in an effort to help others that are considering running down that rabbit hole. There are some practical considerations you should know about LPR. I am approaching this from the position of using Blue Iris and Plate...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[samplenhold]

You have a great situation for LPR. Clean, straight, unobstructed LOS. I don't see any street lights, other than the lights on people's property.

I always say to use a test rig to check the video day and night BEFORE you run cable or mount cams. But that high will be impossible. Also, getting up on a ladder that high, mounting, terminating, and adjusting will be tough. At my age, I would not do it. Hopefully you are younger and can handle it.

You could use outdoor rated cable and run it along that corner board. Or stuff it under it. I would not suggest running conduit on the outside of such a nice looking home.

Check out this thread also:

LPR Case Study: Scoping, Planning, Proof of Concept, Installation, & Results

Introduction This thread is about my journey into LPR (License Plate Recognition) after having about 18 months of experience with IP cams and having quite a bit of my system finished. I am not an expert on LPR, or IP cameras either. But I have spent a lot of time working with my system and...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Dave88LX]

Yeah, there are no street lights in the area. Everyone has a light pole in the front yard, hit-or-miss on who has them on or not, even though they are dusk-to-dawn.

I thought of a possible way to mount it temporarily, and that is to sandwich a couple ladder rungs between a couple pieces of 2x4 or 2x6, with a hole drilled through the middle of both, and a long bolt/washers/nut clamping it to the ladder. Then I could mount the camera to that. I'd have to leave the ladder leaning up against the front of my house to do that though. I'm 42, no worries about climbing the ladder though.

I am a little sketchy about leveling the one side of the ladder so it's level though. I'll have to do a little googling on that so it's stable.

Outdoor ethernet cable...holy cow there's a lot of options on that!
Selecting the Correct Outdoor Ethernet Cable

I would think the basic 5ECMX would suffice. That is $190 for a 1,000 foot spool on Amazon. My runs would be less than 100'. I don't think shielded would be necessary.

Suggestion on which one I should be using for this application?

 

[Dave88LX]

The Loryta PoE Extender Mini Passive 2 Port POE Switch is a cool device. Any negatives to be aware of with this? I assume it's going to need some sort of waterproofing.
I don't mind running a pair of cables if that is easier.

I've read some people will run the cameras in a pair, one for LPR and one for the road...but that'd put 4 cameras in one spot in a little group, that might look too prison-ish.

But for just the two LPR cameras, am I just looking at installing a pair of these, like I used on my front door camera?

 

[Timokreon]

For test purposes, I would get a cable and just set up the camera shooting out the window. Crack it open, and bam... you don't need to test for hours and hours.. or at least I don't. Just enough time to zoom in, focus, grab a few cars in day and night and done.
For the wire, I used Truecable as well. Cat6 outdoor rated, unshielded. 6ecmxuvwht_1krl.

For the camera itself, I installed mine to the soffit. I put a couple aluminum flat bar to help sturdy things up. Can always paint the flat bar white, if you decide to use it.
Others use the Dahua junction boxes. I don't have model numbers at hand at the moment, but I'm sure somebody will come along shortly with the information.

 

[samplenhold]

If you are not burying the cable, and are not exposing it to sunlight, then no need for outdoor rated cable.

It sounds like you are NOT going to run it down the edge of the wall, but are coming out of the soffit directly into a box.

 

[Dave88LX]

Not burying it, although some sunlight may hit it if I do this on another part of the house. Not opposed to getting outdoor cable with the UV rating.

I don't have a good way to come out of the soffit...but I could run it UP the house, into the soffit, then drop it down out of the soffit where the cams are.

That should prevent any loose cables from hanging out/being exposed.

I'll need to look at exactly how to solidly mount the cameras under the soffit (I see the message about the aluminum bar above).

 

[samplenhold]

If you are going to come out of the siding just above the foundation, like in the circle below, why go and mount them so high in the soffit? Just mount them somewhere along the red line?

 

[Dave88LX]

If you are going to come out of the siding just above the foundation, like in the circle below, why go and mount them so high in the soffit? Just mount them somewhere along the red line?

My thought process was for these reasons, feel free to let me know if I'm off-base anywhere:
1. Aesthetics is the biggest one — If I can make the cameras work just as well in a more aesthetically-pleasing spot vs. "in your face", I would prefer that. I'll still keep domes lower on the house at the right height for faces.
2. At that height, they should be less affected/"blinded" by having lights shined directly on them? (Still within the recommended angle though)
3. Visibility over vehicles parked in the road, and the tree in my front yard...no obstructions.
4. No good way I don't think to put it there on the corner of the house.

That's the height my front door cam is at, and you can see that any vehicles parked on the street could obstruct the view.

 

[wittaj]

My thought process was for these reasons, feel free to let me know if I'm off-base anywhere:
1. Aesthetics is the biggest one — If I can make the cameras work just as well in a more aesthetically-pleasing spot vs. "in your face", I would prefer that. I'll still keep domes lower on the house at the right height for faces.
2. At that height, they should be less affected/"blinded" by having lights shined directly on them? (Still within the recommended angle though)
3. Visibility over vehicles parked in the road, and the tree in my front yard...no obstructions.
4. No good way I don't think to put it there on the corner of the house.

That's the height my front door cam is at, and you can see that any vehicles parked on the street could obstruct the view.

I generally agree with you except for #2 - at the shutter speeds we run, they don't really get blinded, even when I tested one at headlight height next to the road.

Mine is up on the 2nd floor and works great...except for the new 3M printed plates. If your state is going to those, you may want to consider trying to get it closer to the road - on the tree, on the mailbox, hidden in fake rock, etc.

 

[Dave88LX]

That's good to know that they don't get blinded. I was imagining how a camera usually looks in the presence of bright lights...but still prefer them higher for the other reasons listed.

Sounds so stupid on the digital plates.
I searched for Pennsylvania. I see a pilot program kicked off in 2019, and an article in early 2022. I haven't heard much about it though.
PA Could Enter License Plate Digital Age

I think that might be a "worry about it when the time comes" problem if we get there. I'd have to get pretty creative for that since our front yards are pretty naked.

 

[wittaj]

Not the digital plates - the 3M printed plates.

Most states had stamped plates, but 3M came out with a new printed plate that is a lot less expensive, but the blue cannot be seen by infrared.

So instead of raised numbers/letters of the stamped plates that would also help with IR reflection back due to the raised surface, these new 3M plates are flat and the numbers/letters are printed on the plate like you would print on paper. So between the blue not being seen by infrared and the flatness of the plate, it becomes a lot harder to see them.

Tennessee has the worse plates, but many states have blue in their plates and are problematic as well. Several of us are working and testing out ways to try to combat it.

Poor IR contrast in new Tennessee license plates

I've noticed an issue with nighttime capture of new 2022 Tennessee license plates. The white lettering on a blue background washes out almost completely in IR light, making the plates barely readable. Has anyone encountered similar issues with other plates? I'm wondering if additional IR...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Dave88LX]

Oh man, OK. I don't know why I said digital, you clearly said 3M printed...long day, read too quickly.

 

[samplenhold]

My thought process was for these reasons, feel free to let me know if I'm off-base anywhere:
1. Aesthetics is the biggest one — If I can make the cameras work just as well in a more aesthetically-pleasing spot vs. "in your face", I would prefer that. I'll still keep domes lower on the house at the right height for faces.
2. At that height, they should be less affected/"blinded" by having lights shined directly on them? (Still within the recommended angle though)
3. Visibility over vehicles parked in the road, and the tree in my front yard...no obstructions.
4. No good way I don't think to put it there on the corner of the house.

That's the height my front door cam is at, and you can see that any vehicles parked on the street could obstruct the view.

That's fine then. I just find that being 20+ feet off the ground on an uneven surface, mounting the box and cam, terminating the RJ45, and trying to adjust the FOV can be problematic. You will probably want to get one of those wrist units that you can mount your iPhone on and be logged in to the BI app to adjust the FOV so you don't have to go up and down the ladder a hundred times. I have used them for ladder work.