"Student" presenting new project, examination required.

[costib]

After countless nights of reading and taking notes, walking around the house measuring, calculating angles & distances, focal lengths & ppm, bandwidth & redesign of current network, wiring paths and decision for another PC in my lab(for BI) and many other things I can't remember now, I'd like this project come to a happy end in the next weeks or so.

Being a good "student" I've followed your advice, got from Andy a varifocal starlight turret(HDW5231R-ZE) and did a lot of tests around the house, but I would appreciate some advices on finalizing the camera placement and models I choose.

Main purpose for all CAMs is to identify the persons being close around the house and any entrances.
Later on, maybe I'll add some overview CAMs if wiring won't be problematic. Inside the house I'm covered already.
The street is a dead end and my house is the last one, reduced traffic but a lot of cars are turning around here, kids can play relatively safe on the street.
I have only one car which is always inside, my side of the sidewalk is always clear(the silver car on the sidewalk is from a guest).

Red circle = CAMs position, Red arrow = CAMs direction, Blue arrow = light source & direction, I have these floodlights: https://www.amazon.co.uk/STEiNEL-XLED-home-silver-Sensor-switched/dp/B0049O9I0Q


CAM_1, street gate, has direct sunlight, worst weather protection, need Built-in Mic, I choose varifocal HDW5231R-ZE(3.6mm).
More MP would be nice to have for this location, I'm thinking about HDW5831R-ZE, as I have some street light available...


CAM_2, house front door, need Built-in Mic, I choose varifocal HDW5231R-ZE(3.6mm).

CAM_3, side fence, I choose varifocal HDW2231R-ZS(3.6mm).

For CAM_2&3 I'd have like to choose the HDBW4231F-E2-M in place of CAM_3, but I'll be forced to stay at 2.8mm and there is direct sunlight over it few hours a day(hmm not sure exaclty how many, have to recheck this). This way I could win some extra degrees from the fixed lens, only one camera instead of 2, this would be better looking as I really don't like how these two CAMs look near my front door and window. YES, this side fence gave me many headaches.
CAM_4, house lateral side, I choose varifocal HDW2231R-ZS(6mm).


CAM_5, side fence and house back door, has no direct sunlight, best weather protection, need Built-in Mic, I picked HDBW4231F-E2-M(3.6mm) for dual lens.


I’ll be very grateful for any advice you can give me with this, thanks.

 

[costib]

Couldn't sleep at all last night and I've made some changes for the cameras in front of the house.

CAM_2, same location but changed model to HDW2231R-ZS(6mm), better direction to the front door and went to 6mm instead of 3.6mm.

CAM_3, changed model to HDBW4231F-E2-M(3.6mm) for dual lens, and new location behind the wood pillar. Here it has good weather protection and might have less direct sunlight behind that wood. With this one I have better coverage, it has CAM_2 in sight, entire fence and the car. Also it has the needed Built-in Mic.

CAM_6, added this one for general overview during daylight, I choose HDW2231R-ZS(v3.6mm).

 

[costib]

CAM_3A can see the CAM_2, but not vice-versa.
Would there be a problem if CAM_2 is in the area of IR beam from CAM_3A?
They are not face in face and CAM_2 is also zoomed in and cannot see CAM_3.

CAM_2 can see the CAM_6 and vice-versa.
Also their IR beams is facing one another from far away, but they are more or less on the same direction.

I cannot test this situation now as I have only one camera at the moment. Should I worry about this?

PS: Figured out how to display attached images as in-line with text at full size.

 

[costib]

I'd like to finalize my order to Andy this following days.
This configuration looks to me the best I've come up with it so far...
What do you think about it, does it look right or is there something I had might overlooked?
I'll appreciate any advice or critiques, thanks.

 

[costib]

Can anyone share some advice please?

 

[looney2ns]

It looks good to me.
Remember to use a test rig to test your locations before permanent mounting.

 

[costib]

Thank you for answering!
I was holding my final order to Andy, only to receive some confirmation that I'm not doing something wrong...
I already tested the locations like that, all the camera pictures are made with the test camera mounted on that rig.
Any ideea about the IR beams overlapping more or less?

 

[Mike A.]

If I'm following your numbering then that's probably not going to work real well facing one another. The IR light isn't a narrow beam and you'll have quite a bit of spill. See how the lights blow out the image in your last night shot? That's how it will affect the cameras facing one another but likely worse in darkness with no other source and much higher sensitivity. How bad will depend on the angles.

I like having cams lower in most cases but yours will be very low and very obvious in some positions. I guess that's good and bad in different ways. If your street is like some areas around here, then the street cam in particular won't last long, either stolen or broken just for the hell of it. Not sure what to do with that one. Under the balcony likely would be OK for 2 without much sacrifice of angle. You also probably could raise up 4 some similarly.

Wherever they are, first make sure that you can get cable there without major headaches.

 

[costib]

Thanks Mike.
About the IR beams, I'll have to retest once I have all the cameras, as for now I only have one.
I'm not worried about the hight inside the courtyard, but outside I think I'll be fine, it's a dead end street with low traffic only for me and neighbors.
I'll have the wiring done by my electrician, yeah it will be a challenge.
About the street cam, would be better to move it at the right of the garage door and zoom in at 6mm? It will show like this:

 

[Mike A.]

Thanks Mike.
About the IR beams, I'll have to retest once I have all the cameras, as for now I only have one.
I'm not worried about the hight inside the courtyard, but outside I think I'll be fine, it's a dead end street with low traffic only for me and neighbors.
I'll have the wiring done by my electrician, yeah it will be a challenge.
About the street cam, would be better to move it at the right of the garage door and zoom in at 6mm? It will show like this:
View attachment 33379

In addition to the glare from the light directly what you're also probably going to see is that it even if not pointed directly at each other it will kill any view much beyond that point from the camera looking in that direction. i.e., vs seeing the full distance that you normally would, you'll have the bright light and then pretty much darkness or at least not nearly what you would see otherwise.

I like the first view of the street better. You can see more and you're still not losing detail much for what matters to you up more close.

 

[costib]

So, as I understand, the cure for these IR beams overlapping is to change position, direction and zoom level, am I right?
Of course there is also option of a separate IR light source, but this is not an option for me at the moment.
Anything else I can do for this problem?

 

[Mike A.]

So, as I understand, the cure for these IR beams overlapping is to change position, direction and zoom level, am I right?
Of course there is also option of a separate IR light source, but this is not an option for me at the moment.
Anything else I can do for this problem?

Overlapping and not pointed at one another won't be much if any of a problem. May even be better with the added light in some cases. It's the extent of direct view where you may have more of an issue. In that case basically you're shining a light into your eyes/the lens. You can't see it in case of IR but the camera can and the effect will be the same. How much of an effect will depend on strength and angle and sensitivity of the cam and how it's set up to compensate. The more zoomed in to where it's more direct, the worse the effect. If zoomed in away from the source of the light, then that likely will be better but you may still have some glare from the side since it's still there, you're just "looking" away. How much of an effect is hard to say without trying it.

Looking at your pics above, given the angles (again if I'm looking at it right) I'd guess what that's probably going to mean is that in the pic of Cam 2 you'd have a very bright light shining from where the 3(?) trees are in the dark area to the left of the pic. i.e., If you were to cut and paste the bright light and flare around it on the side of the house in the pic of Cam 6 over that area, that's probably about what it will look like. Then make the area around it darker in a triangle probably from about the base of the post at the left to about where you can see the horizontal fence through the more leafy trees at the top. The area where Cam 2 is pointed directly probably will be more bright with the added light from 6.

Looking from Cam 6 probably wouldn't be too bad since the IR is going to light up the side of the house to some degree to offset things and the added light from 2 might actually help the view once the cam compensates for overall light in the image. Using the same cut and paste example, the view in the dark would be about as if you cut and pasted one of the flood lights to where the cam would be. Probably not as bad as far as glare since it wouldn't be as direct and there would be some more direct IR lighting there from 6 and some compensation as above.

Also complicating things are the flood lights. When those are triggered, everything changes. Which may make it all moot at least when they're on.

There are some settings in the cams to deal with back lighting and high lighting that you might try to use to help some.

Do you have a bright flashlight that you could put where Cam 6 would be? If you did that and put the cam in position 2 and forced it into night mode, then that might be a reasonable simulation.

 

[Mike A.]

Maybe the easier way to say it (with cams pointed to where lines meet):

_ \ Not a problem. Probably better.

_ | Probably not much if any problem. Maybe better.

_ / Starting to get more to where there may be some issues.

_ _ Likely a problem.

Hopefully that makes sense. And that's generally obviously. Depends on lens angles, strength of light, shading from positions, etc...

 

[costib]

That's a very good explanation of the phenomenon Mike and yes it makes perfect sense to me!
Thanks a lot for taking the time to explain better.
Indeed using a flashlight for testing is a good idea.

Now I'm worried more about this problem...
I'm thinking if I can change something(camera placement) to avoid it, but I'm not too optimistic.
Will see...

 

[Mike A.]

Maybe an easy solution... Put the 5231 as Cam 6 and run it with the IR off. The Starlight will have plenty of light from the others (and the floods) and won't affect Cam 2 at all. Actually you probably could run some of the others from that position with IR off just fine too. You've got a good light background with the house there. Especially if the floods are going to be kicking on anyway.

 

[costib]

OK, I've just placed my order with @EMPIRETECANDY. Crossing my fingers that package will come complete/intact and in time...
So in the end I'll have these items:
3 pieces IPC-HDW2231R-ZS mounted on PFA122
2 pieces IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M(f3.6mm) mounted on PFA137
1 piece IPC-HDW5231R-ZE (from my first order, used as test cam...) mounted on PFA122

 

[Mike A.]

OK, I've just placed my order with @EMPIRETECANDY. Crossing my fingers that package will come complete/intact and in time...
So in the end I'll have these items:
3 pieces IPC-HDW2231R-ZS mounted on PFA122
2 pieces IPC-HDBW4231F-E2-M(f3.6mm) mounted on PFA137
1 piece IPC-HDW5231R-ZE (from my first order, used as test cam...) mounted on PFA122

Should be in good shape with those pretty much no matter exactly where they end up. Hard to go too far wrong with the Starlights. Only problem that I've had with mine is that they make my other cams look like crap at night.

 

[costib]

Thanks @Mike A. and @looney2ns for taking the time to answer my topic. It really helps and it feels good not to be "alone in the dark".
Sure Mike, I've compared mine with a Hikvision Cube cause that's the only other camera I had, and there is no comment about Starlight image.
I can't wait to have them mounted in place and configured in BI.
Sure I'll post here the results with pictures after-that.

PS: My work colleagues all use Reolink, Foscam and NVRs but I can feel their pain now...