Swann 16 Channel (8 PoE Ports / 8 Non-PoE Ports) NVR

[TonyB]

The below offering from Swann, which if I understand correctly is Hikvision, indicates that only 8 of the 16 Ethernet ports are POE. Is there some beneficial reason for the end-user to have non-POE ports? Maybe a POE switch to one of these non-POE ports?

Thanks much for the help.

http://www.swann.com/us/conv16-b3mp8c

 

[scn101]

There's no benefit to the end user that I can think of for having the 8 non-POE Ethernet ports being non-POE. The benefit is to the manufacturer as they can use a lower wattage power supply. You can add a POE switch to a non-POE port to add the remaining 8 cameras if you want.

 

[TonyB]

There's no benefit to the end user that I can think of for having the 8 non-POE Ethernet ports being non-POE. The benefit is to the manufacturer as they can use a lower wattage power supply. You can add a POE switch to a non-POE port to add the remaining 8 cameras if you want.

scn101, thanks much for the reply. I was up very late last night reading this forum and finally found some comparable discussions. There were folks who thought it advantageous to add a POE switch as you describe, connected to the NVR (a non-POE port), as compared to the router. The thinking was that it would be less taxing on the network when not connected to the router... I'm not sure if that is true, but it did make some sense. From a flexibility standpoint, I see an advantage that with such a system one can have a POE switch on the NVR and / or to the router. Depending upon the application, that could be beneficial as well. Or, simply from running cables too I suppose. I have an ABS conduit in the living space up into the attic, which already has a 3 or so Ethernet cables and several surround sound speaker wires. The thought of getting 16 more Cat 5 or 6 cables in there would not easy or maybe even possible. I can now have one go up there, in addition to the POE ones, and into a POE switch (I have power in the attic); so at most just 9 more...

So, while I was educating myself, thinking more and more that I might get that Swann system, Costco reduced it 400 bucks for the next couple weeks. At $1,100, I pulled the trigger. Seems like a good deal and while I realize I might be able to do even a bit better elsewhere, there are certainly benefits buying from Costco...

I now need to order 6 more cameras as I'll have 14 in total, with two open for possible future use. A couple questions to the braintrust here:

1. These Swann 3MP bullet cameras seem to be Hikvision DS-2CD2032F, which can be had on Amazon for $95 each. The best price I see on the Swann-branded ones are like 20 bucks more each. Would there be any issues going with Hikvision ones, possibly firmware issues or anything else? If not, saving $120 (6 cameras needed) would be preferred of course...

2. I of course need a POE switch to drive the 8 other cameras. Again, it will be in the attic, so fan noise is not a factor. Any recommendations? I believe these cameras draw 5 watts, peak 7w...

3. In reading the reviews, there were a couple folks who commented that the Swann-provided Ethernet cables were suspect in quality. If anyone has any opinion on that, please do share. It would be ideal to not have to buy new cables, but I'd much rather do this right the first time, then have to do it again later. Also, I imagine Cat 6 would be overkill here?

Thanks much!

 

[Q™]

...while I realize I might be able to do even a bit better elsewhere, there are certainly benefits buying from Costco...

IMO, the benefit of Costco is their FOREVER return policy.

...1. These Swann 3MP bullet cameras seem to be Hikvision DS-2CD2032F, which can be had on Amazon for $95 each. The best price I see on the Swann-branded ones are like 20 bucks more each. Would there be any issues going with Hikvision ones, possibly firmware issues or anything else? If not, saving $120 (6 cameras needed) would be preferred of course...

But your not saving anything by purchasing those Amazon cameras Tony, because those Avatar cameras are most likely "Chinese Region" cameras which you'll come to understand -- once you read more here -- come with a host of issues and potential problems...including serious problems trying to upgrade the firmware. Alternatively, the four (4) Swann/Hikvision cameras which I purchased at Costco are essentially "Western Region" cameras and I have successfully upgraded each camera's firmware using firmware downloaded from the the Hikvision EU and US ftp sites.

Caution: Because this worked for my Swann/Hikvision cameras does not mean it will work with your Swann/Hikvision cameras; when upgrading camera firmware always proceed with caution, educate yourself and deliberate before pulling the firmware upgrade trigger.

So you made a good decision brother...don't second guess it...good move!

 

[TonyB]

IMO, the benefit of Costco is their FOREVER return policy.



But your not saving anything by purchasing those Amazon cameras Tony, because those Avatar cameras are most likely "Chinese Region" cameras which you'll come to understand -- once you read more here -- come with a host of issues and potential problems...including serious problems trying to upgrade the firmware. Alternatively, the four (4) Swann/Hikvision cameras which I purchased at Costco are essentially "Western Region" cameras and I have successfully upgraded each camera's firmware using firmware downloaded from the the Hikvision EU and US ftp sites.

Caution: Because this worked for my Swann/Hikvision cameras does not mean it will work with your Swann/Hikvision cameras; when upgrading camera firmware always proceed with caution, educate yourself and deliberate before pulling the firmware upgrade trigger.

So you made a good decision brother...don't second guess it...good move!

Q2U - Thank you for the input and vote of confidence.

I see 2 and 4 pack deals on these Swann cameras at Costco and elsewhere. I'll avoid what might be a headache with the Hikvision ones...

Any input on a POE switch to handle up to 8 cameras or if I should source my own Ethernet cables (not use the Swann-provided ones)?

Thanks again.

 

[Q™]

Q2U - Thank you for the input and vote of confidence.

I see 2 and 4 pack deals on these Swann cameras at Costco and elsewhere. I'll avoid what might be a headache with the Hikvision ones...

Any input on a POE switch to handle up to 8 cameras or if I should source my own Ethernet cables (not use the Swann-provided ones)?

Thanks again.

I cut and crimp my own cables Tony...so I have nothing to offer you with respect to the Hikvision cables, except this: if they work when you test them out of the box they should be good forever because there isn't a lot that can go wrong with cables or connectors once installed (inside). Running those same cables outside where they are exposed to weather and sun is a whole different ballgame.

I use inexpensive unmanaged TrendNet POE switches for some of my cameras and they work great. An un-managed switch will be easier for you to deal with and will function superbly for you.

Keep it simple and your experience will be better Tony.

 

[scn101]

Put the POE switches on the NVR rather than the router. There's no reason to have camera traffic on your main network. The NVR should have a "virtual host" mode that will allow you to log into each camera upstream from the NVR.

I used the Gigabit version of this router: http://www.amazon.com/TP-LINK-TL-SF1008P-100Mbps-8-Port-802-3af/dp/B003CFATT2 but my NVR is non-POE so having gigabit Ethernet made sense, for your POE NVR, two of these will work fine, one in each of the NVR's non-POE ports and you'll have the 8 more POE ports you want. They often go on sale at Newegg, Fry's, etc., and with Black Friday coming up you may score a deal.

As for an attic installation, where are you located? I'm in Texas and the attic hits 130F in the summer. High heat will mean premature failure of your NVR, switches, power supplies, and hard drive. Plus, the hotter the electronics, the more power they will consume, the hotter they will get. If you can, locate the equipment in a controlled climate area. If you have a basement, that would be ideal.

BTW, I would have bought from Costco but I like the Turret Cams over the bullet cams. More stealthy and no IR bleed issues.

 

[TonyB]

Thank you both. I actually have a spool of Cat 5 here, somewhere, and a crimping tool, but it has been a while though...

From a "future-proofing" view, any reason to consider Cat 5e or 6? Keeping it simple is a theme that generally serves one well in life, so I'm with ya Q2U...

scn101, I'm in the San Francisco Bay Area, so it can get somewhat hot here, but certainly not Texas hot. I realize it's not ideal to put any type of electrical components in the attic, and figured someone might voice such a concern. I suppose I could co-locate the POE switch or switches near the NVR, but then I'd have to run all those Ethernet cables up into the attic, which I'm not sure is possible within the conduit... The spot I envisioned in the attic would be on the attic "floor", very near a roof exhaust fan. I guess what I'm trying to say is that being low in the attic and so near this fan, the heat at that location will not be that bad, IMO.

Might you be able to share what you mean by a turret cam? I did some Googling, and I see both what look like bullet and dome cams, so I'm not sure what you mean. I need to purchase more cameras, probably six more, so if these are indeed desirable, and won't break the bank...

 

[scn101]

Cat5 cable is fine for the cameras at 100Mbps speeds. If you ever think you'll reuse the wiring for gigabit, you need cat5e. Cat6 is not needed.

As for the attic installation, the heat will shorten the life of the switches but you can give it a whirl, maybe you'll get a few years out of them.

Turret cam: http://www.hikvision.com/UploadFile/image/2013101905391080103.pdf

 

[TonyB]

Thanks scn101. This wiring would be strictly for camera transmission. Is the math as simple as 16 3MP cameras, or 48MP, which is about half of 100Mbps speeds, so all should be fine?

I'll check to see if Swann has such a turret camera...

 

[scn101]

The math is in the compression, you get to choose the max bitrate per camera, the higher the bitrate, the better the image quality. For a 100Mbps 16-channel NVR, if you use all 16-channels you have 100/16 or roughly 6.25 Mbps per camera. 3MP cameras provide a good quality H.264 encoded video anywhere from 4-8Mbps. If you only use 14 channels, you could bump up the max bitrate per channel to roughly 7Mbps.

 

[TonyB]

That makes sense scn101, thank you.

While doing some research earlier I read that the likes of Netflix and iTunes stream HD from 4-8Mbps, using H.264...

Since I might max-out at 16 cameras at some point, and with a possible desire to have a bitrate higher than 6.25 Mbps, closer to 8, I take it that a Gigabit switch/es would be in order? Looks like such capability would be about 50 to 75 dollars more...

I realize more is not always better of course, larger files and ISP upload constraints come-to-mind (remote viewing / access)...

 

[scn101]

I use a gigabit Ethernet downstream connection from the NVR (i.e., to the router/cable modem).

 

[TonyB]

I use a gigabit Ethernet downstream connection from the NVR (i.e., to the router/cable modem).

That makes perfect sense to me. Put all of the consolidated camera traffic on the bigger pipe... I'll have the same here.

I ordered a couple of those TP-LINK TL-SF1008P switches. I'll run 3 cameras on each to get my initial 14 (8 on the NVR).

Oddly, with respect to the NVR, there are no dimensional specs on the web. I even called Swann, and after a 45 minute wait, I finally learned that the NVR is model number 7090 (I couldn't find that stated anywhere). And even then she couldn't find the dimensions. I have two or three places it might fit, and knowing the dimension would be helpful in some prep work... At least I have the model number now so I can see what my camera options are.

http://www.swann.com/media/swann-camera-compatibility.pdf

When I Google "Swann NVR 7090" I find 8 channel units, not the 16 one I ordered. She put me on hold to find the model number, and didn't sound all that confident stating it was the 7090. So, I remain not certain as to what NVR I'll be getting, and with that what compatible cameras I can order next... Maybe I'll send Swann an email next to see if I can get some answers.

 

[Simplex]

I just installed a Swann NVR8-7300 (Sam's Club) and have a similar setup. I purchased the same switch you mentioned and placed it in the attic with four cameras connected. I then used an existing Cat5e cable in the attic to connect to the NVR in the basement. I used the supplied Swann 60 ft cables, and everything works fine. I was a little concerned about using a PoE switch as Swann does not not support such a configuration and told me it may or may not work. It works. I am also concerned about the heat in my attic this summer, but it is much less hassle to replace a $44 switch every few years as opposed to running three more cables from the attic to the basement. Costco seems to have the best deal on the Swann bullet cams - $230 for two.

 

[scn101]

I just installed a Swann NVR8-7300 (Sam's Club) and have a similar setup. I purchased the same switch you mentioned and placed it in the attic with four cameras connected. I then used an existing Cat5e cable in the attic to connect to the NVR in the basement. I used the supplied Swann 60 ft cables, and everything works fine. I was a little concerned about using a PoE switch as Swann does not not support such a configuration and told me it may or may not work. It works. I am also concerned about the heat in my attic this summer, but it is much less hassle to replace a $44 switch every few years as opposed to running three more cables from the attic to the basement. Costco seems to have the best deal on the Swann bullet cams - $230 for two.

My bet is the switch's power brick die before the switch in the heat. You may be able to find a replacement power brick cheaper, or one that's rated for higher power which may last longer, if ever needed should yours fail.

The NVR you purchased has PoE ports but I guess you're not using them. Considering you get four cameras with it the price isn't bad even if you're not using the PoE. It looks like the NVR doesn't have a fan, is that correct? That's why I exchanged my 8 PoE NVR for a non-PoE, I got tired of the fan noise. The 4-port PoE swithches don't have a fan, which I like.

Is the NVR made by Hikvision? Are the cameras? It would be interesting to know if they accept HV firmware upgrades without all the HV protection language/market protection crap.

 

[Simplex]

My bet is the switch's power brick die before the switch in the heat. You may be able to find a replacement power brick cheaper, or one that's rated for higher power which may last longer, if ever needed should yours fail.

The NVR you purchased has PoE ports but I guess you're not using them. Considering you get four cameras with it the price isn't bad even if you're not using the PoE. It looks like the NVR doesn't have a fan, is that correct? That's why I exchanged my 8 PoE NVR for a non-PoE, I got tired of the fan noise. The 4-port PoE swithches don't have a fan, which I like.

Is the NVR made by Hikvision? Are the cameras? It would be interesting to know if they accept HV firmware upgrades without all the HV protection language/market protection crap.

Thanks for the tip on the power brink - I will keep it in mind. Currently, I am not using the PoE functionality on the NVR, but I probably will in the future as I expand the system. The NVR does have a fan which is not really that quiet, but it is in the basement where it cannot be heard anyway. I do not know if the NVR and/or cameras as re-branded Hikvision.

 

[TonyB]

Apparently Swann makes some NVRs just for Costco, possibly for Sam's Club. I finally got my unit as provided in the first post. Swann has said a couple times it's basically the 7090, but different, built for Costco. The link again, the one from Costco:

http://www.costco.com/Swann-16-Channel-HD-IP-NVR-with-3TB-HDD,-8-3MP-Cameras-with-115'-Night-Vision.product.100144944.html

The NVR is about 17.5" wide, and didn't fit in the desired spot, so I had to create some passageway holes between the entertainment center cabinets. I also found a place for both switches, so I was able to avoid the attic...

I found the those Swann bullet cams in a 4-pack on eBay for $420. They look to be the same ones (NHD-835 3MP), so a $40 savings. I haven't tried them yet, but maybe later today...

The included Ethernet cables are supposedly 100' in the kit, and 60' in the "add-on" cameras purchases. I have one camera just a few feet away, inside the house, so I'll use like a 6' cable for that one... Since I have like two or three other cameras about 20' away from the NVR / switches, I'm going to buy some 25' Cat 5e today. Doesn't seem all that desirable to have more than half unused, from a loss or attenuation perspective...

Wow, Swann support is 24/7?! Attempting to set-up email alerts last night, as per the quick start guide, the test emails failed, and I got an email from Google that it was blocked, for security reasons. Swann support, while a 30 minute wait, was awesome. She walked me through a change I needed to make in my Google account settings...

From Costco, I ordered two add-on dome cameras. I temporarily hooked-up one of those in the house, and maybe it was due to somewhat low light, but the image quality is not all that great...

http://www.costco.com/Swann-3MP-HD-IP-Add-on-Dome-Camera-2-pack.product.100238794.html

I'll bring it outdoors later today to see how that might change things...

Going through my hole saws a bit later to find the smallest one that will allow the camera connectors to pass through. My plan is to make holes in desired spots around the perimeter of the house and feed the Ethernet cables up into the attic, probably using an opened coat hanger wire taped to the NVR / switch end of the Ethernet cable. Once in the attic, I'm hoping these coat hanger wires will reach far enough inward to make reaching them not so difficult. If there is a better method or something longer that might be advisable, I'm all ears...

I was in the attic yesterday as I "installed" a dedicated 2" ABS pipe that will direct these Ethernet cables to the NVR and swtich POE ports. Very clean install, I'm happy to say...

I currently have the NVR's HDMI output going to our big screen. I added an "Activity" to our Logitech H1 remote called "Cameras", that simply just puts the TV on the desired input. It was then that I realized that this NVR doesn't have a remote control. We have an older Lorex DVR (LH310) at our other home, which has a remote control. I was able to have our H1 not just view all channels on the big screen, but navigate to a desired one and select a camera image to enlarge. I / we will miss that here. All of Swann's NVR do not have a remote control. Seeing all the cameras in Live View is generally fine though... Between computers and other connected devices, there will be more options...

 

[Q™]

...I found the those Swann bullet cams in a 4-pack on eBay for $420. They look to be the same ones (NHD-835 3MP), so a $40 savings. I haven't tried them yet, but maybe later today...

You passed the Costco FOREVER return policy for $10.00 extra per camera? I'm going to 2nd guess that call brother. In addition, if the units you purchased on eBay are indeed Swann units then no harm (except for the FOREVER return policy you passed on). However, if the eBay units you purchased are actually Hikvision "Chinese Region" 2032's then they are not Western Region equivalents and they have some downside which may, or may not, effect you in the future.

 

[TonyB]

You passed the Costco FOREVER return policy for $10.00 extra per camera? I'm going to 2nd guess that call brother. In addition, if the units you purchased on eBay are indeed Swann units then no harm (except for the FOREVER return policy you passed on). However, if the eBay units you purchased are actually Hikvision "Chinese Region" 2032's then they are not Western Region equivalents and they have some downside which may, or may not, effect you in the future.

They shipped from the same location / city in CA, I needed four bullets, so went that route as I didn't see four elsewhere. After opening, they look identical, packing, markings on the box...

I ordered the two domes from Costco, as I did the kit...