System recommendations for $10k budget?

AndrewG25

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Hello, I've found it very difficult and overwhelming to compare all of the options on the market. I'm looking for the best system I can get for a budget of $10k.
Who currently has the most modern and innovative NVR software and cameras on the market?
I'm looking for an NVR + 8 cameras.

From what I could see, Ubiquiti and Dahua seem to be the best.
I'm leaning more towards Dahua because Ubiquiti seems to be a closed system, you can only use their cameras and equipment, whereas you can use any camera.
Curious what are your thoughts, how would you build the best system for this budget? Thanks.
 

wittaj

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What are your goals - overview or identify? That dictates the focal lengths of camera selections.

Who much light do you have?

$10k for 8 cameras and a VMS system, whether an NVR or BI/PC combo is more than enough.

See this thread for the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value in terms of price and performance day and night.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection
 

AndrewG25

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Would like the AI features, license plate and facial recognition, good at detecting at a far distance, low light, color night vision.

In my search for the best cameras, I seem to have landed on the WizMind X Series, IPC-HFW71242H-Z-X - still not sure which is the best NVR, there's so many models.
 
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With Unifi You will get very nice, modern and easy to use mobile app & NVR web panel.
Dahua (HIK or any Chinese brand) is here years behind..

From hardware point Unifi cams are very basic one.. very small sensor, weak IR, weak night performance, in reality only a few models to choose between, very limited options to configure (like most consumer based cctv systems).
Nothing comparable to our forum gold standard - Dahua 5442-s3. Very well integrated with Unifi ecosystem but closed system.

Dahua give You much better HW. Lots of different models to choose, depending of Yours or installation place needs.
Ability to choose models with perfect night performance. Models to support very specific needs (LPR, 180 degree cam, telecom cams, PTZ cams etc).

Out basic gold standard here if Dahua 5442-s3 (aka WizMind-S series).
It's 4 Mpx cam with very big 1/1.8" image sensors and latest V-gen AI-ISP (AI Image Signal Technology) which process video data from sensor.
Strong IR for no-light situations and many AI modes to choose: SMD, IVS, Face Detection, Video MetaData and newest AcuPick 2.0.

3 different chassis to choose (bullet / turret / dome), 3 fixed lens models (2.8/3.6/6.0mm) or 2 varifocal with changable optical zoom (one normal 1-3x ZE 2.8-12mm and one telezoom 3-9x option Z4E 8-32mm), 2 versions (normal and premium with optics/chassis from higher 7xxx line) and 2 colors (white/black).


To understand why you need different lens / zoom options You should read this thread:


There is matching line Dahua 5xxx-EI NVR.. Which supports all AI 5442-s3 features.
2/4/8 disks models, 8-64 supported cams, with or without internal POE switch..

 
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ps. You should wrote what specific features / functionality You need..
In case of Dahua You can mix & match many different types of cams depending of place / needs..

180 degree cams, overview cams vs zoom or telecom ones, PTZ ones etc..
 

wittaj

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Don't chase MP.

Do you need all 8 cameras to be able to read plates? That camera you picked will not be able to IDENTIFY reliably outside of 20ish feet and is not on the ideal MP/sensor ratio so it would not perform well in low light conditions.

The thread I linked above are the recommendations for the best overall cameras for low light conditions and they have AI. If they do well in low light, they will do well in sunlight.

Do you want the camera/NVR to automatically read the plates or just the ability to review and see them manually?


You would have to set the camera up specifically to read plates. You need the proper camera with OPTICAL zoom for the distance you are covering and the angle to get plates.

Regarding plates, keep in mind that this is a camera dedicated to plates and not an overview camera also. It is as much an art as it is a science. You will need two cameras. For LPR we need to OPTICALLY zoom in tight to make the plate as large as possible. For most of us, all you see is the not much more than a vehicle in the entire frame. Now maybe in the right location during the day it might be able to see some other things, but not at night.

At night, we have to run a very fast shutter speed (1/2,000) and in B/W with IR and the image will be black. All you will see are head/tail lights and the plate. Some people can get away with color if they have enough street lights, but most of us cannot. Here is a representative sample of plates I get at night of vehicles traveling about 45MPH at 175 feet from my 2MP 5241-Z12E camera (that is all that is needed for plates):

1675078711764.png



See the LPR subforum for more details.
 

AndrewG25

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Regarding the gold standard Dahua 5442-s3 (aka WizMind-S series) - is that still true after the X series came out, or would you prefer one of the X series cameras? Seems like
IPC-HFW7842H-Z4-X is comparable but better at long distances?

I'll only have 2 cameras pointing at the street, at least one of them should be long distance to record license plates, facial recognition.
 

wittaj

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You are looking at cameras that are not on the ideal MP/sensor ratio and appear to be chasing MP.

If low light is a requirement, then you want MP/sensor ratios in green below:

1724860556327.png


The biggest advantage the 7 series has is more analytics like parking and ANPR, which if you don't need it, why spend it.


You also mentioned you want full color night vision capabilities.

Don't be sold by the marketing hype. It is not all it is cracked up to be.

I have said this before in the forum, but it is worth repeating. Do not be sold by some trademarked night color vision (Full Color, ColorVu, Starlight, etc.) that is a marketing ploy in a lot of ways lol. It is simply what a manufacturer wants to claim for low-light performance, but there are so many games that can be played even with the how they report the Lux numbers. They will claim a low lux of 0.0005 for example, but then that is with a wide open iris and a shutter at 1/3 second and an f1.0 - as soon as you have motion in it, it will be crap. You need a shutter of at minimum 1/60 second to reduce a lot of blur from someone walking.

All cameras need light regardless of what any marketing claims. You cannot defy the law of physics. I can make a crap camera look like noon at midnight, but then motion is a blur.

Sensor size, F number, MP, quality of the lens and sensor and software running the cameras are the real determining factors. And then obviously dial each cameras specific software settings to optimize the image and video. A brightness of 50 for example will look different between two different brands, or even the same brand but different cameras.

It is interesting how many of us experience better camera images with the camera LED off, regardless of whether it is a Hik or Dahua! I personally don't think they cast a far enough light to be effective. They are blinding looking at the camera, but do not project enough light out far enough to be effective. I have 3 different cameras with the LED and I do not run any of them on!

Unless you know you have enough ambient light or can live with the camera's white LED on, go with a camera that can see infrared. The full color type cameras cannot see infrared, so you couldn't add external IR later. You can always run a camera with infrared in force color if you have the available light.

But in a completely black situation without any ambient light and without the white LED on, it looks like crap and you cannot add external IR as it won't see it.

I have a Full Color type camera and the LED light on it is a gimmick. It helps for a small diameter circle, but it is no different than going outside at pitch black and turning on your cell phone light - it is bright looking directly at the LED light, but it doesn't spread out and reach very far. Fortunately I have enough ambient light that I do not need the little piddly LED light on and it actually looks worse with it on, but it performs better than my other cameras when tested at the same location. But without some light, a camera with IR capability is the safer bet.
 
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Regarding the gold standard Dahua 5442-s3 (aka WizMind-S series) - is that still true after the X series came out, or would you prefer one of the X series cameras? Seems like
IPC-HFW7842H-Z4-X is comparable but better at long distances?

I'll only have 2 cameras pointing at the street, at least one of them should be long distance to record license plates, facial recognition.
Both 5xxx-S3 WizMind-S and 7xxx-X WizMind-X came out at the same time (Q1 2023)...
7xxx-X is more advanced version of 5xxx-S3..

Main differences:
  • bigger chassis,
  • better brighter lenses with p-iris,
  • double mics with noise cancelation,
  • much more powerful SOC (chip with CPU/GPU/ISP/NPU processors).
  • more specialized AI modes (at this moment 12)..

the main selling point for WizMind-X 7xxx-X is ANPR - automatic car plate recognition.. camera can detect plate and do OCR.. and send car plate number plus car visual attributes to NVR, which will put in searchable database..

Both lines can do Video MetaData / AcuPick 2.0 - so not only detecting people / cars , but describing them by visual attributes like cloth types & colors, age, hats/glasses attributes, car colors etc.. 7xxx supports much more attributes (especially for cars, like plate number) due more powerful SOC..

Both lines have Z4 (Z4E / ZH4E) variants with 3-9x 8-32mm telezoom lenses, which are exactly for street / cars monitoring at bigger distances..

The price difference is almost 2.5x (5442-ZE/ZHE is under 200$, 7442 is above 500$ in Andy shop) so most people use 7xxx-X for specific AI modes (like ANPR) which are not available in 5xxx-S3..

There is premium variant of 5xxx - called 5xxxH (5442H-ZHE / 5442H-Z4E) - which are 5442 with 7xxx brighter optics, dual mics and chassis... they cost a 20-40$ more that normal 5xxx and offers almost the same as 7xxx except AI modes / power..
 
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ps. both lines have 4 and 8 mpx sensors with the same sensor size (1/1.8").. both are best in class, but 4mpx have 2x bigger pixel size (2x less pixels in the same sensor size) so it gathers 2x more light at night.. this is why most people here choose 4mpx variants over 8Mpx ones..
 

AndrewG25

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Thanks so much that is very helpful. Sounds like I'll go for 1 of the 7/X series for the ANPR and a couple of the premium variants of the 5 series for the backyard areas.

Now onto the NVR, which one is top of the line? Would that be NVR608H-32-XI ?
 
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The top of the line NVR line is of course 6xx-XI (like 608H-32-XI)...
It has much more power and more AI functions comparing to lower 5xxx-EI line...
This is a best...

but there is one limitation - firmware for 6xx-XI is a bit behind the 5xxx-EI..
5xxx-EI always gets all the new features first (we've had here AcuPick 2.0 for 2 months) and new firmware versions come out quite regularly..

6xx-XI as an Ultra line intended for larger systems - gets the new features much later and much less often... but of course this line will be much more stable..
 
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Thanks so much that is very helpful. Sounds like I'll go for 1 of the 7/X series for the ANPR and a couple of the premium variants of the 5 series for the backyard areas.

Now onto the NVR, which one is top of the line? Would that be NVR608H-32-XI ?
ps. if you have budget, want good ANPR and have proper place to mount cams the best solution is 2 ANPR cams per street.
One looking to the right, one to the left.. in that case You always have chance to catch and do ANPR on cars from front and back side of car.. or supports situations where one cam is obscured by parked cars...

Both should be zoomed in on the street+pavement only (so they will not record Your plot) - to have ANPR working You must have big nice picture of car with plate..

For normal front overview or entrance duties You should have another "normal" or 180 degree cam in front house.
 

mat200

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Would like the AI features, license plate and facial recognition, good at detecting at a far distance, low light, color night vision.

In my search for the best cameras, I seem to have landed on the WizMind X Series, IPC-HFW71242H-Z-X - still not sure which is the best NVR, there's so many models.
Hello, I've found it very difficult and overwhelming to compare all of the options on the market. I'm looking for the best system I can get for a budget of $10k.
Who currently has the most modern and innovative NVR software and cameras on the market?
I'm looking for an NVR + 8 cameras.

From what I could see, Ubiquiti and Dahua seem to be the best.
I'm leaning more towards Dahua because Ubiquiti seems to be a closed system, you can only use their cameras and equipment, whereas you can use any camera.
Curious what are your thoughts, how would you build the best system for this budget? Thanks.
Hi @AndrewG25

"I'm looking for the best system I can get for a budget of $10k"

"Would like the AI features, license plate and facial recognition, good at detecting at a far distance, low light, color night vision."


Plan to take some time to figure this out, or hire someone to help.

Think of this along the lines of I want someone to build me the best House for $X dollars .. not an easy question to answer without getting into a lot more details.

In particular the layout of your house and neighborhood as well as threat areas you want to watch matter.

Often, once we get into the details and see the limits of attempting to do too much with one camera we end up with wanting / needing more cameras to get the results we want. ( thus always get a better NVR / PC than the minimum requirements )
 

AndrewG25

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The top of the line NVR line is of course 6xx-XI (like 608H-32-XI)...
It has much more power and more AI functions comparing to lower 5xxx-EI line...
This is a best...

but there is one limitation - firmware for 6xx-XI is a bit behind the 5xxx-EI..
5xxx-EI always gets all the new features first (we've had here AcuPick 2.0 for 2 months) and new firmware versions come out quite regularly..

6xx-XI as an Ultra line intended for larger systems - gets the new features much later and much less often... but of course this line will be much more stable..
Interesting, does NVR608H-32-XI use DSS Pro V8? I saw a demo on it and it looked nice - but I've also seen demo's with a different looking UI and I can't seem to find details on which one these NVR's use.
 
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DSS Pro is a software VMS solution from Dahua...
Run under Windows on some server hardware..

It can work as standalone NVR on windows or as central server which manage / integrate many Dahua NVR's (from different locations) under one big system.

Yes it have very nice Windows Client, which have very modern UI.
But I don't think that this is a home solution..

Basic version (DSS Express) up to 64 cams and many disabled features are free.
You can download from Dahua website and install & try.

To enable all functionality You must buy software license from Dahua reseller .
 
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This is solution for bigger businesses.
Specially when You have many locations (many HQ, many retail points) with cams/NVRs and want to integrate those into one big central system.

You pay for each channel (camera).. And for many extra modules/features...

Yes, you can do smaller system with software NVR functionality.
And even try to fit into free version:




Dahua in EU propose DSS for everyone who complain how SmartPSS or DMSS is bad :)
Especially that this is the only Dahua solution for now with modern & working & scalable (yes!) desktop interface..
 
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