Today's FCC Ruling

Wiz_ard

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
54
Location
USA
1623965776233.png

This is going to put a lot of companies / people out of work. Very concerned.
 

TonyR

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
11,431
Reaction score
23,895
Location
Alabama
View attachment 92717

This is going to put a lot of companies / people out of work. Very concerned.
Have you read NDAA 2019?

It's the portion that affects those 2 Chinese companies mentioned and it's been in effect almost 3 years this August and as far as I can tell, had had little effect on the private sector.

Are you more concerned for people in China being put out of work than you are for our nation's safety and security?
 

Wiz_ard

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
54
Location
USA
Have you read NDAA 2019?

It's the portion that affects those 2 Chinese companies mentioned and it's been in effect almost 3 years this August and as far as I can tell, had had little effect on the private sector.

Are you more concerned for people in China being put out of work than you are for our nation's safety and security?

If you read today's ruling it means NO NEW authorizations will be granted by the FCC, meaning no new devices will be able to be imported into the United States. This will hurt integrators, dealers, distrubutors etc.
 

TonyR

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
11,431
Reaction score
23,895
Location
Alabama
If you read today's ruling it means NO NEW authorizations will be granted by the FCC, meaning no new devices will be able to be imported into the United States. This will hurt integrators, dealers, distrubutors etc.
I am not a member of IPVM so no, I could not read it.

So the FCC was able to "change" NDAA 2019 that prohibited those manufacturers from being deployed on "government facilities" to be prohibited even on private, non-government facilities?
 

Wiz_ard

Getting the hang of it
Joined
Jun 17, 2021
Messages
41
Reaction score
54
Location
USA
I am not a member of IPVM so no, I could not read it.

So the FCC was able to "change" NDAA 2019 that prohibited those manufacturers from being deployed on "government facilities" to be prohibited even on private, non-government facilities?
Correct, I posted the article below.

The FCC has unanimously passed a rulemaking process that prohibits new authorizations of NDAA-banned products including mega PRC manufacturers Dahua and Hikvision.
IPVM Image

Webinar Next Monday
Live, ask questions, and learn. Conor Healy, IPVM's Government Director will explain and lead a discussion this Monday the 21st at 1pm ET:
Register for the FCC Banning Authorization Rulemaking of Dahua/Hikvision Webinar
Recorded Session
The FCC meeting passing this was broadcasted and is recorded on YouTube, embedded below:

Update 12:30, the video has been made private. We believe this is temporary and will check / update with the final video and key relevant excerpts.
Next Steps
There will be 30 days for public comments plus another 30 days for the public to reply to the initial comments. After the FCC reviews the comments it decides "whether to proceed with the rulemaking we proposed, issue a new or modified proposal, or take no action on the proposal." If the FCC goes forward without adjustments, the final rule is published in the Federal Register and takes effect 30 days thereafter.
Mechanics of Ban
The proposed revision to banning new FCC authorizations is straightforward: an additional subsection would state that "Any equipment on the Covered List [...] is prohibited from obtaining an equipment authorization under this subpart." The two core methods of FCC authorization would be banned: the Supplier’s Declaration of Conformity and the (more stringent) Certification. For SDOCs, applicants "will not be allowed" to issue one for Covered equipment; for Certification, the FCC proposes applicants submit "written and signed attestation" that the equipment is not covered.
Video Surveillance Equipment Affected
Most electronics today that operate in the radio frequency spectrum require FCC authorization, the FCC states: "as a general rule, products that, by design, contain circuitry that operates in the radio frequency spectrum need to demonstrate compliance using the applicable FCC equipment authorization procedure".
Currently, the FCC's database shows that Hikvision has 562 FCC authorizations for things like a Network Camera, face recognition terminal, dashcams, handheld thermography camera, etc while Dahua has 162 FCC authorizations including for IP Cameras, doorbells, conference cameras, etc:
IPVM Image

IPVM Image

Some products are exempt from FCC authorization, for example, if they "operate on low frequencies (i.e., below 1.705 MHz) and which do not operate from the AC power lines or contain provisions for operation while connected to the AC power lines", the FCC said in the NPRM. However, the FCC said it it was considering ending exemptions for Covered equipment, "regardless of RF emissions characteristics":
We seek comment on whether the Commission should revise its rules to no longer provide an equipment authorization exemption to “covered” equipment.
High Probability Moving Forward
While this will face significant opposition from Dahua and Hikvision, the unanimous FCC approval is an indicator of strong support. IPVM will continue to report on how this proceeds to either be stopped, adjusted, or fully implemented.
Download icon
Download PDF copy of FCC Passes Ban Rulemaking Process Of Dahua and Hikvision Report by Upgrading to Group Plan
 

DsineR

Getting comfortable
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Messages
364
Reaction score
468
Location
FL
Got it, so the FCC passed a ruling giving public notice that they are considering to pass a ruling.
Which gives time for others to comment, change, keep as is or throw out the ruling.
I'm sure Dahua & Hikvision will have a few comments.
 

john-ipvm

Known around here
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
409
Reaction score
649
This is John from IPVM. Thanks for posting this.

Dahua and Hikvision have already stated they plan to oppose this.

For what it's worth, the NY Times covered this and says they expect it to unanimously pass in several weeks:
The agency will begin to take public comments on the proposal and then go before the four commissioners for a final vote, probably in several weeks. It will need a majority of votes to pass and is expected to gain unanimous support.
However, Dahua, Hikvision, Huawei, etc. could sue the US government and that might take a while and how that turns out is inherently unknown.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
15,047
Reaction score
28,020
Location
USA
So how far does one take the exemption from FCC authorization "which do not operate from the AC power lines"...so if my cameras are POE, then according to this article "Power over Ethernet (PoE) allows for installation of remote or outside equipment without having to connect to AC power."


Good thing my cameras are EmpireTech brand ;)
 

DsineR

Getting comfortable
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Messages
364
Reaction score
468
Location
FL
That was only part of the exemption, they left out the (more important) 2nd half...
Digital devices that do not generate or use frequencies above 1.705 MHz and that do not operate while connected to the AC power lines, such as certain electronic calculators. Digital devices that include, or make provision for the use of, battery eliminators, AC adapters or battery chargers that permit operation while charging or that connect to the AC power lines indirectly, obtaining their power through another device that is connected to the AC power lines, do not fall under this exemption.
 

Flintstone61

Known around here
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
4,751
Reaction score
7,500
Location
Minnesota USA
Joe six pack here,,,, could this mean a future inability to purchase dahua Oem's from Amcrest or from Amazon? is that what they ulimately are tring to do?
 

fenderman

Staff member
Joined
Mar 9, 2014
Messages
35,376
Reaction score
17,865
Not to worry, these are the same schmuks at the FCC who cant seem to figure out how to stop indian/pakistani robo calls and spammers/scammers who cause billions in losses every year. The Chinese will run circles around them.
 

rahhazar

Getting comfortable
Joined
May 30, 2020
Messages
543
Reaction score
1,223
Location
chicago
Under previous FCC rule government offices continued to buy DAHUA AND HIK brand, and it will keep on happening. Those scumbags are just enjoying our tax dollars and laughing at us by giving us the sheety FCC RULES knowing it won’t do anything.
 

w6unx

n3wb
Joined
Jun 13, 2021
Messages
8
Reaction score
6
Location
Hawaii
Under previous FCC rule government offices continued to buy DAHUA AND HIK brand, and it will keep on happening. Those scumbags are just enjoying our tax dollars and laughing at us by giving us the sheety FCC RULES knowing it won’t do anything.
To be fair, most of where the Government gets these brands are from the contractors they hired.
 

w6unx

n3wb
Joined
Jun 13, 2021
Messages
8
Reaction score
6
Location
Hawaii
I would also like to know that if HiSilicon would be part of that ban too, as it is for the NDAA.
 

john-ipvm

Known around here
Joined
Oct 15, 2015
Messages
409
Reaction score
649
I would also like to know that if HiSilicon would be part of that ban too, as it is for the NDAA.
That's a good question. It is unclear. As you say, devices with Hisilicon chips are covered as part of the NDAA ban, and the FCC plan is based on the NDAA ban, so it could include Hislicon based devices as well.

On the other side, Hisilicon chips are declining in availability and usage, because of other US government action, and many surveillance manufacturers including Hikua have been moving to other SoC suppliers.
 

wittaj

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Apr 28, 2019
Messages
15,047
Reaction score
28,020
Location
USA
Meanwhile, instead of the FCC looking at preventing the root issue (cameras phoning home), they simply are looking to ban them, yet most of us here know what to do to prevent that from happening.

But almost everything seems to have gone thru China at some point, so the unintended consequences of this will be unknown until such ban occurs.

Guess wifi in cars and all smart electronics will be banned as part of it.
 

TonyR

IPCT Contributor
Joined
Jul 15, 2014
Messages
11,431
Reaction score
23,895
Location
Alabama
Guess wifi in cars and all smart electronics will be banned as part of it.
Oh, yeah....as well as similar Chinese-made chips and devices in PLC's, SCADA systems, etc. used to monitor and control water treatment plants, sewage treatment plants, electrical distribution centers and domestic Internet and communication systems..... no worries there. :blankstare:
 
Top