Upgrading Alarm/Security System - Seeking Opinions

[Sybertiger]

I currently have a DSC PC2250 system that was installed by a contractor over 30 years ago when I had my custom home built. I built the house thinking I'd live here 5 years then move onto something bigger and better but here I am 31 years later and still loving my house. I'm looking to upgrade to a more modern/current DSC system with added features. Here is how my system is currently configured:

- Two hardwired smoke detectors.​

- Motion sensor in the family room and a pre-wire for one in the master bedroom.​

- One alarm siren in the house (small square box about 5" x 5") and one in the attic (big horn looking thing) pointing out toward a vent so the neighbors can hear it. Not sure how much power they need/use or how many dB.​

- One DSC keypad in the kitchen next to the door leading out to the garage and one keypad by the front door. They look like the attached pictures below.​

- 8 zones, all hardwired:​

• --- Entry doors (front door and garage door)
• --- Family room window and slider
• --- Dinning room and kitchen windows
• --- Living room slider
• --- Bedroom windows for BR 2 & 3 plus guest bathroom window
• --- Master bedroom slider and master bath window
• --- Master bedroom door and MBR motion detector (wired for motion detector but never installed)
• --- Overhead Garage door

Here's my wish list:

1. I tend to like things wired and not depend on wireless devices. I like the option to add wireless devices in the future but not planning on installing any at the moment.
2. I would like to break up some of those zones for better refinement but don't know yet how may doors or windows are chained together with only one pair of wires running to the control panel.
3. I want to upgrade motion sensors to be pet friendly. Also want to be able to deactivate them if I'm home and turn the alarm on at night.
4. I want to set delays for the entry doors but probably would like that on the sliders (when I'm home) in case I open one at night to let the dog out but forget about the sliders alarms are active.
5. Upgrade the wired fire alarms to include carbon monoxide detection. Not sure what I have. Maybe 30+ years old means they should be replaced. See below and let me know.
6. I want to have the system tied into the home network and controllable by Alexa and from mobile phone (both home and remote). Not looking at a monitored situation or adding in direct cell phone connection.
7. I want to add glass breakage detectors
8. I want to hook up a "police flashing" light bar above one of the plant shelves in the middle of the home and maybe another in the garage.
9. I might use a powerline adapter to connect the ethernet from the DSC controller to the router which is in a different room.
10. I was thinking about a DSC PC1864 but maybe you can let me know if there is a better option.
11. I was thinking about using the Bosch ISC-BPR2-WP12 pet friendly PIR motion detectors but maybe you can let me know if there is something better.
12. I was thinking about using an EnvisaLink card but not sure which card or if there is only one choice.

The smoke detectors sure have yellowed over the years even without direct sunlight.


The first one is next to the front door. The second one is in the kitchen near the garage door. The one with the LCD display is starting to fade out.

 

[smiticans]

I currently have a DSC PC2250 system that was installed by a contractor over 30 years ago when I had my custom home built. I built the house thinking I'd live here 5 years then move onto something bigger and better but here I am 31 years later and still loving my house. I'm looking to upgrade to a more modern/current DSC system with added features. Here is how my system is currently configured:

- Two hardwired smoke detectors.​

- Motion sensor in the family room and a pre-wire for one in the master bedroom.​

- One alarm siren in the house (small square box about 5" x 5") and one in the attic (big horn looking thing) pointing out toward a vent so the neighbors can hear it. Not sure how much power they need/use or how many dB.​

- One DSC keypad in the kitchen next to the door leading out to the garage and one keypad by the front door. They look like the attached pictures below.​

- 8 zones, all hardwired:​

• --- Entry doors (front door and garage door)
• --- Family room window and slider
• --- Dinning room and kitchen windows
• --- Living room slider
• --- Bedroom windows for BR 2 & 3 plus guest bathroom window
• --- Master bedroom slider and master bath window
• --- Master bedroom door and MBR motion detector (wired for motion detector but never installed)
• --- Overhead Garage door

Here's my wish list:

1. I tend to like things wired and not depend on wireless devices. I like the option to add wireless devices in the future but not planning on installing any at the moment.
2. I would like to break up some of those zones for better refinement but don't know yet how may doors or windows are chained together with only one pair of wires running to the control panel.
3. I want to upgrade motion sensors to be pet friendly. Also want to be able to deactivate them if I'm home and turn the alarm on at night.
4. I want to set delays for the entry doors but probably would like that on the sliders (when I'm home) in case I open one at night to let the dog out but forget about the sliders alarms are active.
5. Upgrade the wired fire alarms to include carbon monoxide detection. Not sure what I have. Maybe 30+ years old means they should be replaced. See below and let me know.
6. I want to have the system tied into the home network and controllable by Alexa and from mobile phone (both home and remote). Not looking at a monitored situation or adding in direct cell phone connection.
7. I want to add glass breakage detectors
8. I want to hook up a "police flashing" light bar above one of the plant shelves in the middle of the home and maybe another in the garage.
9. I might use a powerline adapter to connect the ethernet from the DSC controller to the router which is in a different room.
10. I was thinking about a DSC PC1864 but maybe you can let me know if there is a better option.
11. I was thinking about using the Bosch ISC-BPR2-WP12 pet friendly PIR motion detectors but maybe you can let me know if there is something better.
12. I was thinking about using an EnvisaLink card but not sure which card or if there is only one choice.

The smoke detectors sure have yellowed over the years even without direct sunlight.
View attachment 176908

The first one is next to the front door. The second one is in the kitchen near the garage door. The one with the LCD display is starting to fade out.
View attachment 176909

View attachment 176917
View attachment 176919
View attachment 176918

If you want free self-monitoring you're going to have to stick with either the DSC PC1864 series or the Honeywell Vista 20p. The DSC Neo series has an encrypted keypad bus so you won't be able to use the envisalink with it. The Envisalink 4 is the way to go for internet based self-monitoring.

If you decide you want professional monitoring, take a look at the Qolsys IQ Pro which supports hardwired zones, PowerG encrypted wireless sensors and also a legacy frequency of your choice. The IQ Pro is pretty much the DSC Neo and IQ 4 combined into 1 panel.

The Bosch motion detector you referenced is only pet immune up to 45lbs. How big of an animal will be within the protected area? The motion detector also can't point at stairs or objects the pet can climb on. The Bosch BDL2-WP12G might be a better option as it has 100lb immunity.

The smoke detectors should absolutely be replaced. Are they 2-wire or 4-wire smoke detectors? The system sensor smoke detectors are a good replacement.

I would just add a wireless CO to the system. The DSC WS4933 will work with the Power Series. I'm not sure if they make a combo hardwired Smoke/CO for alarm systems but I would keep it separate anyway. As the CO only has a life expectancy of 5 to 10 years where the smoke detector can last longer.

Separating the hardwired zones is going to be difficult if they're not homerun back to the panel. You're going to have to find out where the sensors are connected in series and separate the zones there, then run a new line back to to the main panel. Also, the panel only has 8 onboard hardwired zones. After that you need a zone expander.

The flashing light can be done using the relays built into the panel and a little programming.

Don't recommend using powerline for the envisalink, I would just run an ethernet cable.

I don't know if the Envisalink can be intergrated with Alexa but it does have an app that can be used both locally and when you're away.

 

[Sybertiger]

Definitely want self-monitoring. I was never big on paying subscriptions and you are speaking my language when you say inexpensive/free and self installation. Is there any benefit of DSC over Honeywell or vice versa. I said DSC only because that is what I'm familiar with.

The dog is a 37lb puppy and will probably level off at 40 to 45 lbs. I don't have stairs but the pup does like to jump on the couch and catch some ZZZs. Sounds like that would be a problem even with the Bosch BDL2-WP12G?

I'll have to pull off one of the smoke detectors to see how many wires and what the model number is. Is there a specific System Sensor smoke detector that is favored?

For the pre-wired zones I'll have to check to see how many appear to be point-to-point vs daisy chained. I need to start by looking at the incoming wire count then account for motion detectors and smoke detectors.

Does the DSC PC1864 come wireless capability or is that another module to add and if so what's the part number. Also, for expanding beyond 8 hard wired connections what's the best expansion module. I figure 4 more would do it.

 

[smiticans]

How far away from the motion detector is the couch? I have the honeywell Dual Tech 100lb motions and if I remember correctly they couch has to be at least 6 feet away from the motion to maintain pet immunity. We'll have to look at the Bosch manual. If the dog is going to grow to 40 to 45lbs I would definitely get the 100lb immune detector.

I like the System Sensor i3 series. Specifically the 2WT-B if it's 2 wire or 4WT-B if its 4 wire. These are photoelectric detectors with a built in rate of rise heat detector. They'll trigger if the temapture reaches 135 degrees or increases more than 15 degrees within a minute I believe.

You'll have to add a wireless receiver to the DSC panel, either a keypad that has a built in receiver or a separate module.

The DSC and Honeywell panels are pretty similar. Some people like DSC better and some don't. I like the Honeywell better because I like their selection of wireless sensors. I'm also familiar with the programming of the Vista series. I'm not familiar with programming the DSC panel so if you decide to stay with that I won't be able to assist you with the programming.

If you're already familiar with the operation of the DSC panel I don't see a reason for you to switch to something else.

 

[Sybertiger]

The two smoke detectors are ESL 445CT that are four wire. There's a 1K resister across terminals 3 and 4. Not sure if the one located near the DSC controller also has a 1K resister.

The closest sofa is 7 from the current motion sensor to the arm of the sofa.

I take it that for wireless, as you mentioned, is provided through a specific receiver box placed somewhere appropriate or in lieu of that the wireless receiver is located a keypad but you can only have one keypad with the wireless receiver? And, hopefully the keypad is in a location that radiates to all locations you'd want wireless devices?

If my house has two smoke detectors does it make sense that there should be two CO detectors or should one suffice that is central to the home?

 

[smiticans]

The resistors should be located at the last smoke detector on the zone. That's how the panel will detect any issues with the zone wiring. Which from your picture it looks like it was properly installed. I'm not sure about DSC panel's, but on Honeywell panels 4 wire smoke detectors need some type of power monitoring relay. So if the power to the device goes down, the panel will go into trouble. 2-wire smoke detectors are easier to install on the Honeywell panels as they just connect right into zone 1. You don't need to program any relays or anything. I think on the DSC panels you'll need to program the PGM relays but I need to look that up. Replacing the smoke detectors should be simple. I wouldn't purchase any until you decide which panel you're going to buy.

That couch doesn't look like it's in the best spot for that motion detector. The pet immune motions have to be mounted 7 feet 6 inches from the ground. You might be able to get away with it if you use the 100lb pet immune motion and you only have 1 dog that weights 45lbs. Let me read the manuals for the Bosch or Honeywell to see which one might be a better fit.

Depending on the size of your house, the wireless receiver is normally mounted near the control panel. You can also relocate it to a different location if need be. If you use a keypad with the receiver, as far as I know you can only have one keypad with a wireless receiver built in. I'm not sure if DSC makes repeaters but ill have to look. What's the square feet of your house?

If you want full coverage for CO detection, I would put one on each floor and one within 10 feet outside of each bedroom.

Having two smoke detectors in your house is definitely not enough. For full detection, I would go with one on each floor, in the hallway outside each bedroom, in each bedroom, in any misc room like a tv room or something, heat detectors in the attic, kitchen, garage and boiler room.

 

[Sybertiger]

It's a single story 3-2 split plan with the ceilings vaulted in every room. House size is right around 1,900 sq-ft under air.

 

[smiticans]

Depending on the construction of your interior walls I'm sure the receiver won't have any issues covering 1,900 sq-ft. Just an FYI, the DSC Neo and IQ Pro support PowerG encrypted wireless sensors which have a very large advertised range (I think somewhere near a mile or two in open air). But those systems can't be self-monitored for free. But they can be self-monitored for about $15 a month from a company called Surety Home.

 

[Sybertiger]

That couch doesn't look like it's in the best spot for that motion detector. The pet immune motions have to be mounted 7 feet 6 inches from the ground. You might be able to get away with it if you use the 100lb pet immune motion and you only have 1 dog that weights 45lbs. Let me read the manuals for the Bosch or Honeywell to see which one might be a better fit.

The one in the picture is mounted right at 7 feet under a built-in plant shelf that runs the extent of the wall.

 

[smiticans]

It looks like the Honeywell DT8035V might be your best bet. It's hard to tell from the install manual, but it looks like it'll tolerate pets on couches as long as it's 6 feet or so from the detector.

Honeywell DT8035V - Quick Installation Guide Dated 5/2020, Rev. C

The Honeywell DT8035V Quick Installation Guide is Dated 5/2020, Rev. C, and it is Document ID: R800-26065C. The install guide shows installation images and provides useful tips for installing the DT8035V, device specifications, LED diagnostics, troubleshooting and much more. Learn about the DT8035V.

www.alarmgrid.com

I looked at the Bosch install manual and it specifically shows not to install it where pets can climb on furniture. Either way you're going to have to test it after install to confirm it works properly. I would also probably leave microwave sensitively at the lowest setting.

 

[ThomasCamFan]

Looks like you have made your choice to stick with DSC. That's what I did.

Your situation is similar to one I faced a few months ago. Twenty years ago I installed a DSC PC5010. It was expanded to about 30 zones to monitor all the wired entry switches and other sensors. I had a monitoring service (annual net cost was $0 due to insurance reduction), as well as a Envisalink 4 for integration into my OpenHab system's Alexa interface. This allowed me to voice control the alarm system.

But I moved into a new home a few months ago. It was a production house and the builder did not offer pre-wire for the doors and windows. But was able to have them run CAT6 to the keypad areas. After looking at the options (smiticans advice mirrors what I found), I decided on a DSC PC1864 with some wired sensors (garage heat sensors, interior motion). But due to difficult access, all the doors and window contacts are wireless. The 20 wireless zones are working fine, but like you I prefer everything to be hardwired.

Before moving, I pulled the Envisalink 4 from the old house and installed it here. So the new system has Alexa control too. And for now I am self-monitoring (but as before, the insurance discount would cover my monitoring expenses).

Regarding a dedicated contact for each window, in some rooms I ganged adjacent windows together. Mostly to reduce the visual clutter from the little wireless sensors. Wasn't sold on this idea at first, but now feel it is a better installation because I was able to use fewer battery operated wireless transmitters. Each is a failure point, so less of them seems better to me.

- Thomas

 

[Sybertiger]

On the DSC PC1864 I'm curious to know it supports any of the following:

1. Web based GUI instead of using the keypad for programming when ethernet module is added in.
2. Entry/Exit chime sound programmable to different sound for entry vs exit.
3. Reminder that door was left ajar like a refrigerator door.
4. Integration with smart WiFi door locks.
5. Date/time set via ethernet module.

 

[Starglow]

If you want free self-monitoring you're going to have to stick with either the DSC PC1864 series or the Honeywell Vista 20p. The DSC Neo series has an encrypted keypad bus so you won't be able to use the envisalink with it. The Envisalink 4 is the way to go for internet based self-monitoring.

If you decide you want professional monitoring, take a look at the Qolsys IQ Pro which supports hardwired zones, PowerG encrypted wireless sensors and also a legacy frequency of your choice. The IQ Pro is pretty much the DSC Neo and IQ 4 combined into 1 panel.

The Bosch motion detector you referenced is only pet immune up to 45lbs. How big of an animal will be within the protected area? The motion detector also can't point at stairs or objects the pet can climb on. The Bosch BDL2-WP12G might be a better option as it has 100lb immunity.

The smoke detectors should absolutely be replaced. Are they 2-wire or 4-wire smoke detectors? The system sensor smoke detectors are a good replacement.

I would just add a wireless CO to the system. The DSC WS4933 will work with the Power Series. I'm not sure if they make a combo hardwired Smoke/CO for alarm systems but I would keep it separate anyway. As the CO only has a life expectancy of 5 to 10 years where the smoke detector can last longer.

Separating the hardwired zones is going to be difficult if they're not homerun back to the panel. You're going to have to find out where the sensors are connected in series and separate the zones there, then run a new line back to to the main panel. Also, the panel only has 8 onboard hardwired zones. After that you need a zone expander.

The flashing light can be done using the relays built into the panel and a little programming.

Don't recommend using powerline for the envisalink, I would just run an ethernet cable.

I don't know if the Envisalink can be intergrated with Alexa but it does have an app that can be used both locally and when you're away.

I'll darn near guarantee those original smoke detectors probably don't even work anymore and would install separate battery powered units ASAP. Cosmo does make a combo smoke/CO detector because I have them on my Honeywell Vista system. You'll want to get the four wire version in order for the keypad to be able to reset them when they go into alarm mode because separate power wires are required for both the smoke and CO side. Mine are the two wire version which can't drop power to both sides so I have a reset button that I have to push which then generates system errors that get transmitted back to the monitoring station and ties up the cellular communicator and the monitoring station can't get through on the two-way....so it's a hot mess. The system would have to be rewired with a four-wire setup to fix it which is cost prohibitive, so I just live with having to push the reset button. My original system only had smoke detectors which were fine, but when the system was upgraded and we added the combo smoke/CO detectors there weren't enough wires.

System Sensor COSMO-4W 4 wire Smoke CO Detector Combo

 

[Sybertiger]

I'm starting to take a closer look at the wiring inside the old DSC PC2550. I see there are five unused wire sets that run to the box. This tells me the installer pre-wired some things just in case I wanted to expand the system but, with the exception of one of those wire sets, I have no clue what the other four are for. One of them I know is for an extra motion sensor in the master bedroom as I recall that discussion and I know approximately where to dig in the corner drywall to fish that wire set out. Three of the sets are white and have four conductors while the other two are gray and have six smaller conductors inside. And it looks like the two keypads I have are wired using the 6 conductor gray cable. I wonder if the installer ran the gray cable to two other locations for keypads. I believe the PC2550 only supported up to three. Also, I note he tied a knot in one of them. It must mean something to the installer. The other gray wire he put a sticker "45" and I assume that means something to him too. On the white cables it appears he always ties off the black and yellow wires and only uses red and green for contact sensors. I'm not sure where he would have run extra white cables for future expansion.

 

[Sybertiger]

The other thing I see a lot of is the connection of a green wire from one cable to a red wire from another cable. It kind of looks like he ran wires point-to-point then daisy chained them in the DSC box (fingers crosses). I need to cut one of those white heat-shrink connections open to see if I find something unexpected like a resistor. The 12 lugs on the right represent the 8 zones. The common is always green.

 

[smiticans]

The other thing I see a lot of is the connection of a green wire from one cable to a red wire from another cable. It kind of looks like he ran wires point-to-point then daisy chained them in the DSC box (fingers crosses). I need to cut one of those white heat-shrink connections open to see if I find something unexpected like a resistor. The 12 lugs on the right represent the 8 zones. The common is always green.

View attachment 177189

View attachment 177188

View attachment 177190

Based on those pictures it does look like the zones are daisy chained at the panel. I don't see any resistors inside of the panel. So that means they either have the resistor at the last sensor, or they programmed the system not to look for a resistor (not sure if that panel is capable of that). If the resistors are at the sensor for the burglar alarm zones, you're going to have to get access to them to split the zones. Depending on which alarm panel you go with, you might also need to replace all of the resistors. Based upon a quick search, the DSC 1864 uses 5.6k resistors. There most likely aren't any resistors inside of those "B" connectors.

If you have to replace the resistors on the burglary zones, its generally okay to install them in the panel. However, it is never okay to install the resistors in the panel for normally open zones which include fire alarm and/or Carbon Monoxide zones. Anything that is for life safety should have a resistor at the last device.

 

[ThomasCamFan]

On the DSC PC1864 I'm curious to know it supports any of the following:

1. Web based GUI instead of using the keypad for programming when ethernet module is added in.
2. Entry/Exit chime sound programmable to different sound for entry vs exit.
3. Reminder that door was left ajar like a refrigerator door.
4. Integration with smart WiFi door locks.
5. Date/time set via ethernet module.

1. No. The DLS programming software is old and it communicates via the panel's serial port.
2. Chime is the same for open/close. BTW, the chime sound is depends on the keypad, not the panel. Some keypads have only one chime noise.
3. No.
4. No.
5. Yes. One of the reasons I like the Envisalink 4 adapter.

- Thomas

 

[elvisimprsntr]

When I bought my place in 2005, it had a builder installed cheap Napco GEM security system. I wanted mobile access/control/notification and self monitoring, but the options were very limited and you had to be a dealer or professional installer to even buy the equipment. In 2007, I ripped out the GEM and installed an Elk M1 Gold commercial grade DIY security panel, followed by Insteon lighting control. You can pick them up used for ~$500 off evilBay, including the enclosure. There a number of mobile phone and tablet apps, as well as Homebridge and Home Assistant integration.



I wired up a self powered adjustable current sense relay to one of the Elk M1 zones for automated exterior lighting control when a video doorbell is pressed. All works automagically!

M1 Gold Security & Automation Control - ELK Products

M1 Gold Security & Automation Control M1 Gold Security and Automation Controls provide the ideal […]

www.elkproducts.com

 

[Starglow]

When I bought my place in 2005, it had a builder installed cheap Napco GEM security system. I wanted mobile access/control/notification and self monitoring, but the options were very limited and you had to be a dealer or professional installer to even buy the equipment. In 2007, I ripped out the GEM and installed an Elk M1 Gold commercial grade DIY security panel, followed by Insteon lighting control. You can pick them up used for ~$500 off evilBay, including the enclosure. There a number of mobile phone and tablet apps, as well as Homebridge and Home Assistant integration.

View attachment 177208View attachment 177207View attachment 177209

I wired up a self powered adjustable current sense relay to one of the Elk M1 zones for automated exterior lighting control when a video doorbell is pressed. All works automagically!

View attachment 177210View attachment 177206

M1 Gold Security & Automation Control - ELK Products

M1 Gold Security & Automation Control M1 Gold Security and Automation Controls provide the ideal […]

www.elkproducts.com

That's a pretty slick setup....nice work! I actually prefer Napco security systems over Honeywell, but it would be nice to have a setup like yours instead of just plain jane keypads.

 

[Sybertiger]

There most likely aren't any resistors inside of those "B" connectors.

Thanks for that! I didn't realize there was something called a B connector wire splicer and had to look it up. I thought maybe there was something inside of those (like a resistor) since they were so stiff then it was covered in heat shrink but now I know they are just quick connectors.