water proofing cat7 rj45 connectors/ Dahua junction box/ thick cat7 cables

[ArnonZ]

few questions about water protecting the rj45 connector or junction box:

• with Dahua waterproof junction box, do you also protect the connector inside?
• I was asking because I have for cat7 both "normal" connector for cat7 that is tricky to connect good (unlike cat5) and especially through the junction box on top of a lader.

the better connectors I'm using are too big to enter the Dahua waterproof tube. they are better, more reliable but cannot fit in the waterproof tube.

• the waterproof tube has got a round seal that fits perfect for cat5 cables. but it's not closing on the thicker cat7 cables. does anyone know what I'm talking about?
• The junction box of Dahua designed to fit waterproof M25 inlets. However, those are good for sealing around cables that are much thicker than the cat7 cables.

Any reasonable way to seal the thicker cat7 cables/ the bigger rj45 connectors/the M25 jack? I'm having so many different problems with something that has to be very simple.

 

[sebastiantombs]

First, why CAT7 when a camera only connects at 100MbPS? Even at 8K and the highest bit rates a single camera won't even hit 25MbPS.

Any connector that is outside, or not in an environmentally controlled area, should be protected with some form of weather proofing/protection. First a dab of dielectric grease on the connector, itself. Next, a wrap of coax seal, or similar self amalgamating tape, then a couple of wraps of 33+, or better, electrical tape. If you want to protect the cable entry in the junction box, duct seal is the go to product for that purpose.

 

[Teeauu]

Duct seal rocks!

 

[ArnonZ]

thank you guys for the good advises.

First, why CAT7 when a camera only connects at 100MbPS? Even at 8K and the highest bit rates a single camera won't even hit 25MbPS.

The reason is that it's a new house. The electrician was not thinking about the current needs only. Before you install wiring through all of the walls and for the outside walls, you make sure they'd be good for the current needs as well as future needs (at least as much as you can think of today) and hope for the best.
The new red Category 7 were also the best cables for external use.
I would wrap the red plastic all the way from the walls to the junction box anyway but better use the heavy duty long lasting ones if I install it once under the floors.
And finally no. it's not about the traffic. I didn't choose them because I was thinking that soon I'd use 10Gb cams... ;-)
Finally, I didn't even need to add extra $ for them nor to ask for it. My electrician is using them as default for anything that goes out the external walls. I only checked the gauge and the solid cooper issues and made sure everything is fine at that end.

 

[Jahua95]

few questions about water protecting the rj45 connector or junction box:

• with Dahua waterproof junction box, do you also protect the connector inside?
• I was asking because I have for cat7 both "normal" connector for cat7 that is tricky to connect good (unlike cat5) and especially through the junction box on top of a lader.

the better connectors I'm using are too big to enter the Dahua waterproof tube. they are better, more reliable but cannot fit in the waterproof tube.

• the waterproof tube has got a round seal that fits perfect for cat5 cables. but it's not closing on the thicker cat7 cables. does anyone know what I'm talking about?
• The junction box of Dahua designed to fit waterproof M25 inlets. However, those are good for sealing around cables that are much thicker than the cat7 cables.

Any reasonable way to seal the thicker cat7 cables/ the bigger rj45 connectors/the M25 jack? I'm having so many different problems with something that has to be very simple.

Hi ArnonZ
To answer some of your questions

• with Dahua waterproof junction box, do you also protect the connector inside? - With waterproof junction box you not have to protect the connector inside, I have always placed the connector the way that will be located in upper part of j-box as an precaution.
• Cat7 connector will give you a problems maybe at speeds 10Gb if they are untwisted too far out. With speeds up to 1Gb you can test the connection with laptop and switch/router by connecting laptop on camera end and the other end to switch/router. If your laptop auto negotiate 1Gb connection that means you are good to go (1Gb connection is using all 4 pairs for transfer) .
• Any reasonable way to seal the thicker cat7 cables/ the bigger rj45 connectors/the M25 jack? I'm having so many different problems with something that has to be very simple. You can use silicon to seal around the cat7 as it enters the inlet or as an option you can stack heat shrink tubes to increase outside diameter of cat7 to have more snug fit.

I hope this will help you.
Good luck

 

[sebastiantombs]

If your electrician is running cable outside the house for cameras that's really weird. I have two cameras on each corner of the house and none of the cable is outside, and the house was built before I installed the cameras. CAT7 may be "the best" but you are finding out it can be among the worst to work with, "future proof" or otherwise. Use what you want if it makes you happy.

 

[DsineR]

Also recommend checking the RJ45 terminations for all CAT7 runs. CAT7 twisted pairs are individually shielded, along with an overall foil shield.
Ensure shielded CAT7 RJ45s are used, and all cable runs are tested with a cable certifier/tester. Not only check for proper pair termination, but bandwidth, speed checks, etc.

 

[Jahua95]

Also recommend checking the RJ45 terminations for all CAT7 runs. CAT7 twisted pairs are individually shielded, along with an overall foil shield.
Ensure shielded CAT7 RJ45s are used, and all cable runs are tested with a cable certifier/tester. Not only check for proper pair termination, but bandwidth, speed checks, etc.

I will agree with all of the above - however if equipment not supporting anything more then 100 Mb it will be unnecessary to do some of the recommendations. Simple rj45 connector will be sufficient, test cable for proper wiring with basic cat5 tester and as I mention before test with laptop auto-negotiation of 1 Gb speed will be sufficient.

 

[ArnonZ]

Thank you all guys.

If your electrician is running cable outside the house for cameras that's really weird

no, you've got it wrong. it's cables that continue to the external part of the house. sorry for my bad English. I did mention them being under the floor. didn't I?

CAT7 may be "the best" but you are finding out it can be among the worst to work with

Also recommend checking the RJ45 terminations for all CAT7 runs

yes, been there and done that. 12 years ago, I was using CAT6 for the first time (it was long distance, under the ground between houses so I chose them). it was HELL to try and use the normal connectors. back then, my conclusion was that I've better always end the cables with wall box that could connect to those cables batter.

if equipment not supporting anything more then 100 Mb it will be unnecessary to

Again, we are not talking about preparations for a specific cam that is on the market today, we're talking about infrastructure that you do not change as often as you change your cam

as an option you can stack heat shrink tubes to increase outside diameter of cat7 to have more snug fit.

I was actually thinking about it and hoping to get that answer. however, I'm not sure it'll be enough. the M25 connector can close 13-19 mm while the cat7 is about 7mm. I do not expect the hit shrink tube to double it's current diameter.

well , I've better try your three steps solution. I would fell better if I wrap the cable from the wall, entering the junction box with coax seal as well. only wish it could come in white color. that's where the electrical tape comes to help
CAT7 is what I have and that's what I'm going to use.
funny that you guys are talking about the speed and never asked about the length of the cables (that could be one good reason to upgrade the cables) but before you do, no - the distance is short enough (I don't think that one of them is more than 40ft, cat5e could easily do it).

 

[ArnonZ]

might have found the solution for me.
for those of you that may run into that problem, I'd use 05" water hose white color.
the M25 seals good but it's diameter is between 13-19 mm. 16 mm white pipe would be fine there. it would be sealed next to the wall and would go all the way into the junction box.
it would also protect the red CAT7 cables and the white color would fit the walls, the camera and the junction box better. it's few inches from the point where the cables goes out of the walls anyway: I only want to avoid drilling into my ethernet cable. few inches to the side to make sure I'm drilling with no need to cry afterwards.

 

[sebastiantombs]

A few more comments. "Under the floor" while not outside is in an area probably not environmentally controlled, heated or cooled. Weatherproof cable is a good idea there.

CAT7 is a nice cable but is not, exactly, a well accepted "standard". It's more of an accommodation to a few manufacturers that make it. The reason it has never gotten widespread use is the connector problems it has. There is not a large selection of manufacturers that make connector for it, because it is not widely used. It is not widely used just because of that problem and CAT6 performs at least as well without the connector headaches.

 

[Jahua95]

Again, we are not talking about preparations for a specific cam that is on the market today, we're talking about infrastructure that you do not change as often as you change your cam

[/QUOTE]

If you planning to future proof and have the connection up to cat 7 standard then you need to get the cat 7 connectors, network cable analyzer like Fluke DSX CableAnalyzer™ Series Copper Cable Certifiers, to check the cable frequency and ensure appropriate transfer rates

 

[biggen]

This is the case of an electrician not knowing what the hell they are doing with low voltage installs. He installs Cat 7 and then runs it exposed on exterior walls. Silly stuff... I still run Cat 5e for everything. I just bought a new 500' box of Cat5e yesterday at Home Depot. Home use just doesn't need more than 1Gbps. Hell, you cant even find 10Gbe consumer motherboards even after all these years of it being around.

Well you have it now so you might as well make it work. Good luck with it. Is a damn tricky to work with.

 

[ArnonZ]

well, I think you all went too far with your assumptions
1. under the floors cause that's the standard for running all sorts of cables in many parts of the world. I may surprise you here but the American standard is not the only nor highest in the world (in contraction, cars and other areas).
2. who told you that the cables had to be exposed outside??? it was my idea not to place the cams exactly where the ethernet cable goes out only after I got the Dahua junction box and decided about the proper way to connect it to the walls and the better way to insert the cables into it (from the side and not to place it around the hole as expected originally. it would be few inches to the side and the cable would run inside 1/2" white pipe into the junction box.
3. the cat7 connectors are problematic but if you don't have 10GB equipment to use today, the connectors are the easiest to change and all cat6 connectors are good for cat7 cables though the may not give you the highest speeds. again I do not have the equipment anyway and I can always change the end connectors.
4. with all the respect, I was connecting network cables for nearly 30 years now. it was 10baseT back then. if I was asking some question, it doesn't mean I'm stupid to made different choices than you nor my electrician.
5. I do know what I'm doing and the questions started just because I have two different kinds of CAT6/7 connectors. the good ones are expensive, better, I'd rather use them but they would not fit into the Dahua waterproof tube. therefor, I was asking the question if any of you trust the dahua junction box enough to skip waterproofing the rj45 connectors.

 

[sebastiantombs]

As I said previously, if you're happy with it use it. 10GB for a camera is way more than future proofing. If you really want to be future proof install some single mode fiber along with the CAT7, just to be safe. I've been installing since prior to 10Base systems, thin net, thick net, Lattice Net, token ring and even dumb terminals on RS232. Been there, done that. In fact 10BaseT is actually an adaptation of Latticnet from Synology. As far as CAT7 goes, as I said it is an accommodation standard and that cable is easily matched by CAT6 without having any of the connector headaches.

 

[ArnonZ]

IF we really opened that topic, the worst thing about CAT7 and the no standardization are the shitty cables that are writing CAT7 but they are copper coated or use thin copper wires. be away of those. I doubt it if they could be used for POE.
I made sure that mine have the right gauge and that they are not coated. for all I care, it's cat6 for me.
for me, it was not matter if he uses cat6 or cat7 even though I knew that cat5e are good enough for IPC.
after working with cat5e and cat6, I'd still use the cat6 for infrastructure and locations where it is possible to change cables but not easy.
but then again, if I had cat6 cables, I'd end up the same point with the same problems: can't use any cheap cat5 connector, hate working with the cheaper cat6 connectors, the good expensive connectors for cat6/7 do not fit into the waterproof tube, the M25 inlet for the Dahua junction box is wider than the cat6/6 cable and I had to find a solution to waterproof it (found) and so on.
one thing still puzzles me: the Dahua junction boxes are widely used... you either need to make a hole for the cable in the middle of them (and have a problem with water) or use M25 connector to incert the cable from the side. but in that case, no matter if you use cat5e or cat7: the M25 is too wide for both of the cables. I also wonder what did Dahua think when they made their junction box for M25 that is good for waterproof electric cables and above.

another thing that I never understood here: all vendors are preparing power inlet for the cams while most people would use POE. the all supply waterproof tube for the ethernet cable but why not supplying some sort of seal for the power that most people never use.
never got it. must be something I'm missing here.

 

[AP514]

Hell, Go with the CAT7....Everyone said the same stuff to me (not here) in 2001-2002 when I went CAT5e and CAT6..Now CAT5e is the bare minimum.
And I do realize your not just Wiring for CAMS but the Whole House....
As far as the M25. I would just drill a Hole in the Plug to fit my CAT7 cable..then terminate the RJ45 after. Duck seal and Dielectic and your Done.

 

[Teeauu]

As far as the M25. I would just drill a Hole in the Plug to fit my CAT7 cable..then terminate the RJ45 after. Duck seal and Dielectic and your Done.

This!

 

[samplenhold]

While I was not using Cat7, I just used a PG7 long thread cable gland and drilled a hole in the box.

 

[ArnonZ]

thanks
I was checking the PGs and for some reason I came to a conclusion that they did not fit.
could still be that it doesn't really fit but locked from the other side that is good enough.
the M25 made a perfect fit but it does not lock a network cable (not cat5e and not even the cat7).
your solution is great. mine was to connect the M25 to a pipe that would also protect the cable from the sun.