What frame rate are you all using?

badayuni92

Young grasshopper
Jul 31, 2021
33
10
United kingdom
I am currently using 15fps on a home install following a number of break ins on my street

I am wondering should I scale down the resolution and reduce field of view from 5mp to 4mp so I can run at 20fps?

Any help appreciated
 
I run 20fps on all my cameras. There should not be a huge difference between 15 & 20. For me it was a preference when viewing the playback. It felt more fluid when looking at the footage than 15 fps.
 
I run 20fps on all my cameras. There should not be a huge difference between 15 & 20. For me it was a preference when viewing the playback. It felt more fluid when looking at the footage than 15 fps.

Thanks for the reply the problem I can defo see a small difference in the smoothness between 15 and 20fps. The problem I have is if I go to 20fps I have to reduce the resolution from 5mp to 4mp and I lose some of the fov crucially parts bear my entrance door.
 
You can tell the cameras that run 10 fps. Cars driving by are where you see it most. People are pretty good.
With 8mp over view cameras, I am just saving disk space. I have other cameras closer to capture the good stuff.
 
Yeah even at 15fps I find cars to be a bit blurry. I am not sure if that's the frame rate being to low or the exposure which I have set at 1/25

People seem okay but if they move quick it isn't smooth
 
15fps is a little "jerky" but generally fine. A shutter speed of 1/25 is far too slow to get blur free motion, especially at night. 1/60, 16.66ms, is the slowest for night video unless you have lighting like a stadium for a night game. Daytime shutter speeds of 1/2000 or higher are very common. Reducing camera resolution from its "native" resolution isn't a very good idea either. Detail is lost and noise is introduced by the camera as it combines or removes information to get the resolution lower. Changing field of view will have no effect, fps is fps.

You're not making a Hollyweird movie, you're trying to get video good enough to produce identification. Even a movie is only shot at 24fps.
 
15fps is a little "jerky" but generally fine. A shutter speed of 1/25 is far too slow to get blur free motion, especially at night. 1/60, 16.66ms, is the slowest for night video unless you have lighting like a stadium for a night game. Daytime shutter speeds of 1/2000 or higher are very common. Reducing camera resolution from its "native" resolution isn't a very good idea either. Detail is lost and noise is introduced by the camera as it combines or removes information to get the resolution lower. Changing field of view will have no effect, fps is fps.

You're not making a Hollyweird movie, you're trying to get video good enough to produce identification. Even a movie is only shot at 24fps.


Thanks for advice I am using colour vu hikvision ip cameras. Please can you tell me what the ideal shutter speed should be for and night please
 
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I use Dahua cameras in manual mode for shutter speed and would guess that Hikvision have the same capability. My night setting is generally a range of 0.01ms and 16.66. My daytime setting is 0.005ms and 10ms. Keep in mind that literally every camera may require different settings to produce the best possible video in each location. It also requires adjusting gain and exposure compensation as well. There is no set "formula" that will work every time, it's too location dependent.
 
In my opinion, shutter and gain are the two most important and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible. HLC at 50, unless for LPR, will certainly degrade the image with motion.
 
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In my opinion, shutter and gain are the two most important and then base the others off of it. Shutter is more important than FPS. It is the shutter speed that prevents motion blur, not FPS. 15 FPS is more than enough for surveillance cameras as we are not producing Hollywood movies.

Many people do not realize there is manual shutter that lets you adjust shutter and gain and a shutter priority that only lets you adjust shutter speed but not gain. The higher the gain, the bigger the noise and see-through ghosting start to appear because the noise is amplified. Most people select shutter priority and run a faster shutter than they should because it is likely being done at 100 gain, so it is actually defeating their purpose of a faster shutter.

Go into shutter settings and change to manual shutter and start with custom shutter as ms and change to 0-8.3ms and gain 0-50 (night) and 0-30 (day)for starters. Auto could have a shutter speed of 100ms or more with a gain at 100 and shutter priority could result in gain up at 100 which will contribute to significant ghosting and that blinding white you will get from the infrared.

Now what you will notice immediately at night is that your image gets A LOT darker. That faster the shutter, the more light that is needed. But it is a balance. The nice bright night image results in Casper during motion LOL. What do we want, a nice static image or a clean image when there is motion introduced to the scene?

So if it is too dark, then start adding ms to the time. Go to 10ms, 12ms, etc. until you find what you feel is acceptable as an image. Then have someone walk around and see if you can get a clean shot. Try not to go above 16.67ms (but certainly not above 30ms) as that tends to be the point where blur starts to occur. Conversely, if it is still bright, then drop down in time to get a faster shutter.

You can also adjust brightness and contrast to improve the image.

You can also add some gain to brighten the image - but the higher the gain, the more ghosting you get. Some cameras can go to 70 or so before it is an issue and some can't go over 50.

But adjusting those two settings will have the biggest impact. The next one is noise reduction. Want to keep that as low as possible. Depending on the amount of light you have, you might be able to get down to 40 or so at night (again camera dependent) and 20-30 during the day, but take it as low as you can before it gets too noisy. Again this one is a balance as well. Too smooth and no noise can result in soft images and contribute to blur.

Do not use backlight features until you have exhausted every other parameter setting. And if you do have to use backlight, take it down as low as possible. HLC at 50, unless for LPR, will certainly degrade the image with motion.

Thanks so much for this alot of useful stuff on here will have a play around and see how I go. I can't believe how many settings there are to tweak.
 
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Scaling down a camera serves no video quality benefit and probably makes things worse. It will save on storage, but that comes at a cost.

Taking a 5MP camera down to 4MP camera is still using the 5 million pixels - the camera doesn't change the "pixel resolution screen" on the camera when you go from 5MP to 4MP. The sensor still needs the same amount of light as what is needed for 5MP, so a native 4MP camera will result in a better image at night than downrezing a 5MP to 4MP. The firmware will make some attempt at downrezing it, but it could be a complete crap image or a somewhat usable image as the algorithms try to figure out what to do with downrezing, so it is best to run in whatever native capacity the camera is.
 
Scaling down a camera serves no video quality benefit and probably makes things worse. It will save on storage, but that comes at a cost.

Taking a 5MP camera down to 4MP camera is still using the 5 million pixels - the camera doesn't change the "pixel resolution screen" on the camera when you go from 5MP to 4MP. The sensor still needs the same amount of light as what is needed for 5MP, so a native 4MP camera will result in a better image at night than downrezing a 5MP to 4MP. The firmware will make some attempt at downrezing it, but it could be a complete crap image or a somewhat usable image as the algorithms try to figure out what to do with downrezing, so it is best to run in whatever native capacity the camera is.


Thanks for that very useful information
 
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I am not shooting a Hollywood movie, I do not care about the jerky video. I do care about a detailed high quality picture. Outside I use 12 FPS, inside I use 8 FPS. The bird feed uses 20 FPS. I use H.264 with CBR at or above 8192 kbps. I use an independent IP network for the camera, and I do not care about storage, disk space is cheap.
 
Frame rate should not effect the "sharpness" of an image. If an image is blurry, it is because the shutter speed is too low (or the camera is out of focus). Changing the frame rate may effect the "smoothness" of the playback, but there is little reason to use a fast frame rate (20fps or greater) over a slower frame rate unless the object you are trying to capture is moving at a high rate of speed (like a speeding car or a humming bird) and therefore you need more frames per second to ensure that you capture the object enough. But if you are trying to capture footage of normal speed objects (people, animals, etc), then only having 8 or 10 or 15 frames per second is still plenty of material if there is a episode. Even at 8 frames per second you are going to capture every movement of whatever subject you are trying to capture. "Smooth playback" doesn't mean anything when it comes to CCTV systems. Personally I would rather have the higher storage capacity (because I'm recording less frames/data per second) than worry about the different between 15 frames and 30 frames per second. You will never tell a difference between 15 and 30 fps on a non-speeding object.
 
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Frame rate should not effect the "sharpness" of an image. If an image is blurry, it is because the shutter speed is too low (or the camera is out of focus). Changing the frame rate may effect the "smoothness" of the playback, but there is little reason to use a fast frame rate (20fps or greater) over a slower frame rate unless the object you are trying to capture is moving at a high rate of speed (like a speeding car or a humming bird) and therefore you need more frames per second to ensure that you capture the object enough. But if you are trying to capture footage of normal speed objects (people, animals, etc), then only having 8 or 10 or 15 frames per second is still plenty of material if there is a episode. Even at 8 frames per second you are going to capture every movement of whatever subject you are trying to capture. "Smooth playback" doesn't mean anything when it comes to CCTV systems. Personally I would rather have the higher storage capacity (because I'm recording less frames/data per second) than worry about the different between 15 frames and 30 frames per second. You will never tell a difference between 15 and 30 fps on a non-speeding object.

Thanks so much very very useful info. This has help to understand now. I'll be keeping mine at 12.5fps as I got thr full 5mp resolution and a good field of view. I have been playing around with the shutter speed but to my eye I can't notice much difference. I have left this on 1/50

I am struggling with wdr I need as the 2 cameras at the front of my property are subject to direct sunlight I can mot seem to get the hdr at the right setting

The other thing is max bitrate and max average bitrate when using h265+ at 5mp resolution

Thanks