What UPS

[sebastiantombs]

I find UPSs to be inefficient for cameras.
To think that the device steps 12v (or 48v) from the battery to 110v/230v and the device connected is likely to step the voltage down to 12v and 48v. Huge inefficiencies.

That same logic can be applied to plugging a PoE switch into the mains. The only difference being that the mains get their power from a generator versus the "generator" we call a UPS. On top of that, a quality UPS will filter out line noise that can spike the heck out of a PoE switch.

 

[Old Timer]

There is loss going from 12v DC to 120v AC, then back to 12v DC. The main reason to use AC
is to power a PC for Blue Iris or a monitor.

Running directly from 12V DC is common in communications sites. I have engineered
and built several sites over the years. If all equipment runs from DC, it is more reliable
and cheaper to run straight from batteries in large setups. Small sites it is common to
run off of AC and use a UPS.

If you do this, you must add a fuse panel and fuse the power gong to everything, including
the cameras and DVR. High amperage will melt cables going to cameras, and will start fires!!!


It is fairly easy to build a setup to feed with 12v straight from a battery using diodes.

Battery Backup Module 12/24V - 25 Amp Charger | BBM-1225

Automatic 12V/24V 25A Battery Backup Charger Module. Connect to AC-DC power supply to provide instant battery backup power to DC equipment in an outage.

www.samlexamerica.com

This is usable for up to 20 amps of power

You can also buy a power supply with it built in.

23A Switching Power Supply w/ Battery Backup | SEC-1223BBM

23A 120VAC Switching Power Supply with Battery Backup. Uninterrupted DC power from an external backup battery to your critical load during power outages.

www.samlexamerica.com

If you are electronically educated, you could build your own with a power supply, couple of schottky diodes, fuses,
and a way to charge the battery. I could draw a schematic of how to wire. You are on your own past that.

 

[sebastiantombs]

All that is certainly doable, but it's kind of like re-inventing the wheel to handle an occasional power failure. A UPS does provide a simple, plug and play, solution albeit maybe not the most efficient one, but it is a backup device, not a primary power source.

 

[Old Timer]

All that is certainly doable, but it's kind of like re-inventing the wheel to handle an occasional power failure. A UPS does provide a simple, plug and play, solution albeit maybe not the most efficient one, but it is a backup device, not a primary power source.

It would cost more, Take a ton more time, and give you a lot more issues to deal with.
I don't know of any security camera system that uses 20 amps at 12v DC.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I used to run a repeater system and we were using some lead acid batteries that were donated by a Bell company. What a PITA to keep that system maintained, operating and reliable. On the other had, having almost 1000 amp hours at 12VDC was handy on ore than on occasion during bad storms.

 

[Old Timer]

I used to run a repeater system and we were using some lead acid batteries that were donated by a Bell company. What a PITA to keep that system maintained, operating and reliable. On the other had, having almost 1000 amp hours at 12VDC was handy on ore than on occasion during bad storms.

I know those systems well! My largest DC plant had over 3,000 amps drain at 48 volts all the time, and went up when power failed.
It was not the only plant in the building complex. There was 2 ea 1.5Mw and one 1 Mw gensets. they could all be paralleled.

 

[mikeynags]

I had been using APC's since late 80's, tried a couple of Cyberpower units circa 2016 with poor results within a few months...it's APC all the way for me now.
YMMV !

Interesting @TonyR I have had the exact opposite luck. I just ordered the new CyberPower 1500 sine wave ups. Lost power yesterday and found out one of my servers was on too small a ups to give me enough time to shut things down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TonyR]

Interesting @TonyR I have had the exact opposite luck. I just ordered the new CyberPower 1500 sine wave ups. Lost power yesterday and found out one of my servers was on too small a ups to give me enough time to shut things down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FWIW, it wasn't a problem with runtime, it was a problem with a power surge from local utility went through them like a straight wire and damaged the connected equipment...on 2 separate occasions and 2 different units, both Cyberpower.

 

[Jessie.slimer]

I run an AIMS pure sine wave inverter connected to 2 105aH batteries in my crawlspace. I wanted it to run a long time if power was out all day and I couldn't get home soon enough to connect the generator.

Switches to backup power fast like a ups, so cpu stays on. Charges/maintains batteries 24/7, and auto switches back to mains power when it comes back on.

Having this much backup power on hand is nice, as I have all cameras, BI, alarm system, sump pumps, and even a couple TVs connected. 210aH will keep me going for a while.

 

[dogbert831]

I find UPSs to be inefficient for cameras.
To think that the device steps 12v (or 48v) from the battery to 110v/230v and the device connected is likely to step the voltage down to 12v and 48v. Huge inefficiencies.

I agree you're going to get a lot of heat loss in the step down / step up but what's the alternative to power a 12v device in a power outage?

 

[Mark_M]

I agree you're going to get a lot of heat loss in the step down / step up but what's the alternative to power a 12v device in a power outage?

I can think of using a 12v solar charge controller. Instead of solar panels you'd connect the usual 12v power supply, then connect battery and cameras load. I don't know how much of a delay it would have when switching between 'solar panels' (power supply) and battery.
I have seen some 12v UPS modules (bare circuit boards) but they seem a little uncommon.

For 48v it's a little more difficult. Ubiquiti has a solar charge controller with POE port outputs, theoretically this same method could be applied.
Otherwise there is 12v to 48v POE adaptors, although this leads back to the problem of inefficiency.

 

[Mark_M]

All that is certainly doable, but it's kind of like re-inventing the wheel to handle an occasional power failure.
but it is a backup device, not a primary power source.

I've been wanting to increase the capacity in my UPS for a while but what's the point in spending a few hundred on a battery that would only get used twice a year. Most power outages here are for a few hours anyway, I might as well install solar panels and large battery banks to power the house.

 

[Jessie.slimer]

The problem is that your 12 volt battery loses volts while it is discharged. Using a ups or inverter, while using a bit of energy, will keep the output voltage regulated

 

[Mark_M]

The problem is that your 12 volt battery loses volts while it is discharged. Using a ups or inverter, while using a bit of energy, will keep the output voltage regulated

I wouldn't expect a 12v solar battery to experience problems. After all; they are designed to run your house off (smaller ones for shed's etc.). There will be some protection in the controller so it doesn't output once the battery is lower than 'x' volts.
But DEFFINITLY a car battery would suffer problems with being discharged beyond a point, a UPS battery (sealed lead acid/deep cycle) can withstand the drops.

But to get a constant 12v you'd easily use a 24v solar controller set to output 12v, that would keep a stable 12v.

 

[Shockwave199]

I guess I don't think about this too deeply. Apc for me. Just replaced the battery after around 4 years. It allows me to power down the nvr when I can if it's an extended outage but mostly we have momentary glitches and it saves that beating from surge/quick dropout.

 

[Jessie.slimer]

Yes as long as electronics are being used it will be fine. I was reading it as a 12 volt battery hooked directly to a load as backup, which is not a great idea.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Reasons for a UPS -

 

[Mark_M]

Reasons for a UPS -

View attachment 72756

It looks like it is good for you.
A UPS is not much use for me with only 2 power failures a year, but it is there.

Although, (and I see it with your screenshot) a UPS is great for brown outs/electrical noise.
The circuit my recording device is on is in parallel to a few other outlets in the home, if someone where to trip the breaker and re-set it quickly then my cameras wouldn't know.

 

[sebastiantombs]

The big problem is that you don't know electrical noise happens unless it' pretty severe. In all fairness to our power company, we had some pretty bad storms during the summer that, literally, took down a few miles of poles where there are open fields. Takes some time to fix that kind of damage and the generator kept the UPS time down very significantly.

 

[JNDATHP]

For us, the reason to put our network and cameras, along with the BI PC on UPS’s is that in most newer developments, including ours, there is a single on/off switch exposed at the exterior electrical panel, for the fire department to turn off in case of an emergency.

We can’t put a lock on it for the above reason so if a criminal decides to cut our power using this switch, our cameras and BI PC will keep recording for almost an hour.