which camera for LPR at a distance of 215ft?

[reflection]

Hello team,

LPR seems interesting and I'd like to give it a try. Based on IPVM, my "capture" point is about 215' from the camera location. Would the IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E work for both day and night? I'm thinking 215' may be too far. What other cameras would you recommend at this distance?

 

[wittaj]

That would be pushing it, but if you have all the ideal situations (straight on and camera not too high over the plate height), it could possibly work. I had stretched mine to that but I had a horrible angle and could get a lot of the day time caps, but the night time was a lot harder, maybe 60%, so I brought it closer. You will get enough plates that are dirty or rusty, etc. that even in perfect conditions you will not get and at the limits of the camera capability, it would be that much harder.

Some members have had success using a PTZ for longer reaches as well, although I think that is a little more difficult as you cannot manually set a focus like you can the Z12, but again in the right situation you can make it work.

I seem to recall some recent installs by members here that were straight on and pushing that limit with decent results. But each situation is different.

 

[reflection]

I'm also concerned about achieving good night time results.

Although the road goes in front of my house, I can't put a camera near the road. My house is about 50' from the road, so to get a good angle, I need the target further away. My planned camera location (attached to my house) is about 15' off the ground (I think the height is okay if I'm targeting 215' away). This is a residential street with one way in and out so cars have to pass through this target area. The target area is at a corner with a stop sign. Vehicles should not be traveling faster than 25mph (probably a lot slower as they make the turn). The angle should be face-on as vehicles make the turn.

One positive note is that there is a street lamp at that corner, but it's one of those residential ones that has minimal output.

That's a really good point about focusing. I didn't realize that PTZ's could not manually focus. There is definitely a lot to consider when setting up LPR. Sounds like the only way to know is to get a camera and try it. Is the IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E the camera of choice right now?

 

[wittaj]

The Z12 is the camera of choice.

Can you post a google map or the IPVM image where we can see the angle and situation?

The PTZ can work - the only issue since you cannot manually set a focus is that you need to make sure it is pointing at the spot you want before it gets dark so that it can focus on something. If you move the PTZ around at night and then go back to the preset, at the shutter speed you need to run, it will hunt all night trying to focus. So you lose the ability to use the PTZ and look around the neighborhood at night.

 

[reflection]

Here is the IPVM with the Z12.

 

[samplenhold]

Yes, as stated above, the 5241E-Z12E is the current Dahua cam of choice for this.

However, if it does not have enough zoom, you could get a cheaper bullet and do a lens mod. The Z12E has a max lens of 60mm. There are lenses that can be bought that are bigger. See the thread below:

Simple Dahua bullet cam 50mm vari-focal mod longe range zoom

I'm new to the forum but just want to detail my mod to mount a cheap vari-focal lens in a Dahua HFW4433M-I2 bullet cam (Both sourced from Aliexpress) using simple parts with no cutting or manipulation of the enclosure or circuitry. Credit to Nyar for his 25mm 4MP License plate thread which gave...

ipcamtalk.com

He is modding with a 50mm, but there are other lenses available.

 

[samplenhold]

Not sure just how accurate the IPVM Calculator is. I did a test with it and it shows great plates at 268ft. Just went to an arbitrary street scene and pushed it out there keeping the width of the FOV to cover just the street. See below.

 

[wittaj]

I see a lot of trees that may be obstacles. I would first try a less than ideal angle but closer and see if you get plates like one of these white lines. My angle is about this or worse and I get every plate (unless dirty, missing, etc. LOL).

 

[clacks]

I'm the OP from the thread that samplenhold mentioned and just want to confirm what the others have mentioned with my findings with the note that I am new to this.

I'm also concerned about achieving good night time results....
...One positive note is that there is a street lamp at that corner, but it's one of those residential ones that has minimal output.

In my (admittedly limited) experience, two things matter for night plate capture; IR and angle. At the shutter speed needed to get a clear plate on a moving target, no matter what artificial light, the image will be way too dark without IR reflecting off the plate. In my thread, I show a street sign 300 feet away that is square on to my cam and while everything else in the image is pitch black, the lettering is clearly visible. This is maybe at 45mm on a varifocal.

I was getting plate reads at night at about 260 feet using google maps to give me about a 10-15 degree angle offset.

Vehicles should not be traveling faster than 25mph (probably a lot slower as they make the turn). The angle should be face-on as vehicles make the turn.

I also estimated 25mph as well for my setup (40km/h here in Aus) and no problems at all with blurry images from motion. Face on though is the best part of your location though. Assuming you are clear of the trees?

That's a really good point about focusing. I didn't realize that PTZ's could not manually focus. There is definitely a lot to consider when setting up LPR. Sounds like the only way to know is to get a camera and try it. Is the IPC-HFW5241E-Z12E the camera of choice right now?

That was the camera I wanted after reading here months ago but as I needed three, I took the chance on cheaper mods as I didn't have the budget.

Western Australian plates are no problem out much further than 215' on a 50mm varifocal with manual focus.

I recall Nayr mentioning that cheaper cams couldn't encode in video formats better suited for LPR software so the other question is whether you are going to eyeball the plates or automate the process.

 

[bigredfish]

Unless you are straight on a(t about 3-8 ft high) with good added IR (in addition to that of the Z12) I wouldnt plan on getting consistent nighttime good captures (90%+) at more than 150-180 ft. I struggled with 120ft and a 30 degree angle with a LOT of hours into it.

 

[reflection]

I see a lot of trees that may be obstacles. I would first try a less than ideal angle but closer and see if you get plates like one of these white lines. My angle is about this or worse and I get every plate (unless dirty, missing, etc. LOL).

View attachment 70307

Yes, I just noticed the trees when I checked out the view in-person. LOL. Looks like if I mount the camera about 3' high, I would be able to go under the leaves and get an unobstructed view.

The spot you indicated has an angle that looks between 30-35 degrees. I was thinking that might be too much angle but definitely worth a shot to see if it works out. I'll test multiple spots. Thanks.

Vehicles would be coming and going from the bottom left.

 

[reflection]

Yes, as stated above, the 5241E-Z12E is the current Dahua cam of choice for this.

However, if it does not have enough zoom, you could get a cheaper bullet and do a lens mod. The Z12E has a max lens of 60mm. There are lenses that can be bought that are bigger. See the thread below:

He is modding with a 50mm, but there are other lenses available.

Thanks. I just ordered the Z12. As much as I like to tinker, I'm going to give the Z12 a try first and see if it has enough zoom.

 

[reflection]

Unless you are straight on a(t about 3-8 ft high) with good added IR (in addition to that of the Z12) I wouldnt plan on getting consistent nighttime good captures (90%+) at more than 150-180 ft. I struggled with 120ft and a 30 degree angle with a LOT of hours into it.

Based on the feedback, I'm hoping this will be the sweet spot. I'll mount the camera about 4 ft high. IPVM shows 125ft distance. PPF of 147. The curve of the road will have the vehicles' plate at an angle of about 30 degrees.

I'm hoping I don't have to add additional IR.

 

[bigredfish]

Should be ok as long as you can get enough IR there..

 

[reflection]

I'm the OP from the thread that samplenhold mentioned and just want to confirm what the others have mentioned with my findings with the note that I am new to this.



In my (admittedly limited) experience, two things matter for night plate capture; IR and angle. At the shutter speed needed to get a clear plate on a moving target, no matter what artificial light, the image will be way too dark without IR reflecting off the plate. In my thread, I show a street sign 300 feet away that is square on to my cam and while everything else in the image is pitch black, the lettering is clearly visible. This is maybe at 45mm on a varifocal.

I was getting plate reads at night at about 260 feet using google maps to give me about a 10-15 degree angle offset.



I also estimated 25mph as well for my setup (40km/h here in Aus) and no problems at all with blurry images from motion. Face on though is the best part of your location though. Assuming you are clear of the trees?



That was the camera I wanted after reading here months ago but as I needed three, I took the chance on cheaper mods as I didn't have the budget.

Western Australian plates are no problem out much further than 215' on a 50mm varifocal with manual focus. I think 300' on a clear night face on is not unreasonable based on the street sign image.

I recall Nayr mentioning that cheaper cams couldn't encode in video formats better suited for LPR software so the other question is whether you are going to eyeball the plates or automate the process.

Great work with your cameras. Thanks for sharing your experience. I only need one so figured I would stick with something ready to test with. I plan to automate the license reading.

 

[clacks]

Great work with your cameras. Thanks for sharing your experience. I only need one so figured I would stick with something ready to test with. I plan to automate the license reading.

Certainly can't fault that logic. Be great to see your images after you've had a play....which is good fun by the way

 

[reflection]

Certainly can't fault that logic. Be great to see your images after you've had a play....which is good fun by the way

The Z12E should arrive next week (yes, should be fun ). In the mean time as a preview, here is my target location. This picture is from my overview camera and I was originally intending to place the Z12E right next to it. But the trees may present a problem so the LPR camera will be mounted about 8 ft below this and zoom in to where the arrow is pointing. I might get some additional IR from this camera.

 

[clacks]

The Z12E should arrive next week (yes, should be fun ). In the mean time as a preview, here is my target location. This picture is from my overview camera and I was originally intending to place the Z12E right next to it. But the trees may present a problem so the LPR camera will be mounted about 8 ft below this and zoom in to where the arrow is pointing. I might get some additional IR from this camera.

That's a fairly oblique angle, can't do a ninja trim of that tree by the corner?

Damn nice house/street BTW

 

[reflection]

That's a fairly oblique angle, can't do a ninja trim of that tree by the corner?

I'm sure my neighbor would love me if I chopped his tree .
If I mount the camera lower, I can get a clear view under the trees. I'll be doing a lot of experimentation (glad the camera will be only a few feet off the ground so that I don't have to climb a ladder each time to try new angles).

Damn nice house/street BTW

Thanks. My camera setup is mostly for fun but better safe than sorry. Unfortunately I probably won't be getting many action shots (I guess that is a good thing). I bought an alarm 14 years ago and still have not installed it because it's relatively quiet in my neighborhood (but installing it is on my to-do list for this September). My kids are getting older and I need to know when they sneak out of the house LOL

 

[CCTVCam]

Why don't you put a mail box at the end of your drive and incorporate the camera into that like some others have done on here? That way you could capture from maybe 10-20 feet and road level giving you almost ideal conditions. From others posts, wooden or brick columns seem to be a good way to go for building an extra concealed comaprtment to house the camera.