Wiring POE cameras throughout a forty acre forest to track brown bears...

[Noober]

This is an ambitious project for sure and given my ignorance, I'd love to picks some brains here on how best to accomplish it. I have an off grid heavily forested property and I want to trench from a central location throughout the property to install hidden cameras in deadwood trees that I will carve out and place an enclosure into for quality wildlife footage and bear awareness while keeping the forest looking like a forest. Security from people isn't an issue this far out in Alaska, but security from Brown Bears is an issue. I'd like to get good footage I can use to make videos and I also want to program a system to keep the wife and I appraised when bears are around.

I've got a pretty good solar array and battery system and have 240V power available from a central location. I run 240V from my solar shed because I have to trench wires to various structures on the property and so I try to keep my wire costs lower with a higher voltage. My cabin is 700 feet away from my solar shed, for example. But the downside is that I have to use an AutoTransformer at each location to turn that power into 120V. I use DC power at the solar shed, but I can't run DC the long distances away from the shed because the cables would bankrupt me.

What I would like to do is hub and spoke trench power/fiber from the solar shed (1000 foot or so runs) throughout the property and have those lines terminate with some sort of device(s) that can turn the 240V into power that can be parceled out to outdoor rated POE cameras. One termination of each 240V line and fiber that allows for multiple POE cameras to be trenched from that termination spot.

And then have all the cameras save footage on a NAS for my python scripts to analyze.

Any pointers on hardware to make this happen? Many thanks in advance!

 

[tigerwillow1]

Very ambitious. Sounds to me like you'll need network switches at various locations that will have 240 volt power, and need to interface the switches to a fiber line. The switch will have to be a POE switch, or you'll need to have a 12 volt supply to power each camera. POE is easier. If you can find a POE switch that accepts 240 VAC, or a suitable power brick for switches that use an external power brick, that part will be pretty easy. I've got a couple thousand feet of POE lines buried in conduit about a foot deep. You'll need to bury so the animals don't rip out the wires just walking around. In a few cases I have a camera on a tree with a hollowed out trunk and was able to run the wire up the trunk, never popping above ground between the conduit and up the trunk. I've never had a problem running a camera at or slightly over the 330 foot ethernet length limit, and you can use a repeater if you need more. I suggest you use 23 awg cable instead of 24 awg unless the runs are on the short side. Since you want to catch animals with the cameras, you're locked out of using all but the lower end Dahua cameras. The better cameras will IVS trigger only on people and vehicles. The lower end cameras are perfectly good during the day, not so much in low light or at night. I don't know if the situation is any different with Hikvision.

 

[Alaska Country]

One option for the 240 VAC power is to purchase a properly rated step down transformer. i.e. 240 VAC to 120 VAC. Like the idea of primary to secondary isolation with a step down transformer.

 

[garycrist]

https://www.amazon.com/100V-240V-Switching-Supply-Adapter-Selectable/dp/B07VV1X6JV

24 Watts should run a couple of cams no problem.

 

[Noober]

Outstanding, thanks for all the inputs and shared experience. I'll take a look at some of those devices and hopefully be able to figure out a way to install the components in a buried waterproof box or something. The bears will tear up anything they find in the forest that doesn't belong.

I'd like the camera to be POE and I think also have 940nm "invisible IR" if possible. Don't want the things glowing in the dark.

 

[Noober]

If you can find a POE switch that accepts 240 VAC, or a suitable power brick for switches that use an external power brick, that part will be pretty easy.

I will definitely look for that, sounds like just the ticket. Much appreciated.

 

[Noober]

I will definitely look for that, sounds like just the ticket. Much appreciated.

This POE switch takes 240VAC and has four ports for cameras which would probably be about right. I'm not sure how I would connect the fiber line to it though, perhaps that would require another device?

I need to remember that I need 240V European standard instead of the 2 legs of 120V.

 

[Noober]

This one accepts 240VAC, has four ports, and apparently allows for a fiber connection.

 

[bigredfish]

Outstanding, thanks for all the inputs and shared experience. I'll take a look at some of those devices and hopefully be able to figure out a way to install the components in a buried waterproof box or something. The bears will tear up anything they find in the forest that doesn't belong.

I'd like the camera to be POE and I think also have 940nm "invisible IR" if possible. Don't want the things glowing in the dark.

Most all surveillance cameras are 850nm and yes you can see the red led's if looking straight on at them from say 30-40ft but its not like they shine that bright to produce shadows or anything

 

[Noober]

Most all surveillance cameras are 850nm and yes you can see the red led's if looking straight on at them from say 30-40ft but its not like they shine that bright to produce shadows or anything

I think that is why I'm going to go with the 940nm "invisible IR" cameras. We have some cameras that glow like you say, and the moose and bears definitely react to them.

 

[wittaj]

Good luck finding cameras on the 940nm - they are not common and cost more. You may sacrifice performance of the camera for the 940 - but maybe in your use case it would be ok.

And most cameras designed for 850 can't see 940 so you can't add it later.

 

[Noober]

Good luck finding cameras on the 940nm - they are not common and cost more. You may sacrifice performance of the camera for the 940 - but maybe in your use case it would be ok.

And most cameras designed for 850 can't see 940 so you can't add it later.

That's good to know, thanks. I may have to settle for a camera that has Starlight or some capability to see okay so long as it's not completely dark, without using IR. Although I have no idea if that would be more cost effective.

I found this Dahua although I don't know if it has 940nm or not, but it seems to do okay with just ambient low light. But ouch, it's $700...

 

[Noober]

I'm also trying to get a quote for this Bosch camera, but I'm guessing it's not going to be cheap...

 

[wittaj]

Starlight is a meaningless marketing phrase. The words Accusense, ColorVu, LightHunter, Dark Fighter, Starlight, etc. are simply marketing hooks and do not represent a specific technology advancement or feature....it is simply a marketing term used to supposedly sell the consumer on the ability to have good night vision. The actual sensors and capabilities of the camera is more important. Plenty of "starlight" cameras are on less than ideal MP/sensor ratios.

Also don't be fooled by a camera claiming full color - they don't defy physics and still need light. And they can't see infrared so you can't add it later.

To prove how meaningless Starlight is, this is an example from Reolink's marketing videos of their Starlight camera - do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture. This is why you cannot buy a system based on marketing terms like Starlight.... There is more light here than you would have out in the woods. The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two columns:

Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the camera can't see you

 

[Noober]

Starlight is a meaningless marketing phrase. The words Accusense, ColorVu, LightHunter, Dark Fighter, Starlight, etc. are simply marketing hooks and do not represent a specific technology advancement or feature....it is simply a marketing term used to supposedly sell the consumer on the ability to have good night vision. The actual sensors and capabilities of the camera is more important. Plenty of "starlight" cameras are on less than ideal MP/sensor ratios.

Also don't be fooled by a camera claiming full color - they don't defy physics and still need light. And they can't see infrared so you can't add it later.

To prove how meaningless Starlight is, this is an example from Reolink's marketing videos of their Starlight camera - do you see a person in this picture...yes, there is a person in this picture. This is why you cannot buy a system based on marketing terms like Starlight.... There is more light here than you would have out in the woods. The still picture looks great though except for the person and the blur of the vehicle... Will give you a hint - the person is in between the two columns:

Bad Boys
Bad Boys
Watcha gonna do
Watcha gonna do
When the camera can't see you

Ah, thanks for pointing that out. I don't see a person in that photo. Not even after you telling me.

 

[wittaj]

I'm also trying to get a quote for this Bosch camera, but I'm guessing it's not going to be cheap...

That camera would suck in low light.

They are shoving 8MP on a sensor designed for 2MP.

It would need over 4 times the amount of light to produce a comparable image to a 2MP.

Since you will be in almost total darkness, you want to get cameras on the ideal MP/sensor ratio (anything in green):

 

[bigredfish]

That's good to know, thanks. I may have to settle for a camera that has Starlight or some capability to see okay so long as it's not completely dark, without using IR. Although I have no idea if that would be more cost effective.

I found this Dahua although I don't know if it has 940nm or not, but it seems to do okay with just ambient low light. But ouch, it's $700...

All cameras need light, either IR or white light. That particular one wont do well at all without good IR.

There are some high end SONY and other brands that can see by true starlight, they go for $3000-$5000+ and they still arent what you think

 

[wittaj]

All cameras need light, either IR or white light. That particular one wont do well at all without good IR.

There are some high end SONY and other brands that can see by true starlight, they go for $3000-$5000+ and they still arent what you think

^Even with good IR that camera struggles since it isn't on the ideal MP/sensor ratio. The 4MP version kicks its butt all night since they are on the same size sensor.

 

[wittaj]

You will be wanting to look for 2MP and 4MP cameras.

Don't chase MP thinking that is better. In your situation it will be a disaster.

The 4K cameras on the ideal 1/1.2" sensor do not see infrared and either need enough light or you use the built-in white light.

Majority of 4K cameras that have infrared are on less than ideal MP/sensor sizes.

 

[Noober]

You will be wanting to look for 2MP and 4MP cameras.

Don't chase MP thinking that is better. In your situation it will be a disaster.

The 4K cameras on the ideal 1/1.2" sensor do not see infrared and either need enough light or you use the built-in white light.

Majority of 4K cameras that have infrared are on less than ideal MP/sensor sizes.

I have no experience, obviously, but I'm hoping the nighttime imagery is enough to identify wildlife and I'm hoping the daylight footage is quality and not just some cheap trail camera. I'm guessing hoping it's as good as an iPhone's quality is probably asking too much though?