You probably saw me coming?

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RUMBLESTRIP

Pulling my weight
Aug 17, 2022
108
153
USA
I have found myself struggling a bit because I'm not the tech type and I'm always anticipating my next mistake. I have an old i5-7400 12GB with a 128GB ssd. I'm thinking that should get me started with BI. Now I just need a 16 port PoE switch and a few cameras to play with. I'm thinking about a vari-focal just to get an idea what cameras I would need, and to set a baseline (especially for low light). Is there a "standard" recommendation for a camera like this? I'm probably going to end up with 8 or more cameras around my house on a 100'x100' lot, so I can't imagine I could buy any decent camera that would go to waste.

Got any thoughts or links?
Thanks
 
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RUMBLESTRIP said:
I have found myself struggling a bit because I'm not the tech type and I'm always anticipating my next mistake. I have an old i5-7400 12GB with a 128GB ssd. I'm thinking that should get me started with BI. Now I just need a 16 port PoE switch and a few cameras to play with. I'm thinking about a vari-focal just to get an idea what cameras I would need, and to set a baseline (especially for low light). Is there a "standard" recommendation for a camera like this? I'm probably going to end up with 8 or more cameras around my house on a 100'x100' lot, so I can't imagine I could buy any decent camera that would go to waste.

Got any thoughts or links?
Thanks
Click to expand...

HI @RUMBLESTRIP

PC should work well .. you can even start out with a smaller PoE switch at first .. I like to always have a smaller poe switch for testing
 
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Welcome to IPCT! :wave:

When you set up BI just make sure you optimize its operation, including sub streams!
 
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:welcome:
 
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Last night I walked around my house to get an idea of what my options are for camera placement. I honestly didn't realize how bright my driveway is due to the street light.

Will this amount of light influence my camera choice much? During a power outage that light won't be there, and I can't really turn the street light off to test without it. If I setup cams with all that light, will they do worth a darn if the lights were out?

These are just cell pics on auto, but it is a decent representation of the illumination.

20220818_212558.jpg20220818_213126.jpg
 
Keep in mind that a cellphone picture has slowed the shutter down tremendously and can produce a better static image. Plus that street light may be problematic and cause a backlit condition.

Once you hang up the camera and dial the settings in to your field of view, you will probably be saying you wish you had more light! I have 35,000 lumen radiating off the front of my house and for any of my cameras aimed at IDENTIFY more than 15 feet away, the camera goes to B/W, so I have to either force it in color or go with what the camera says is not enough light and use infrared.

The faster the shutter, the more light that is needed!

The range setting for shutter speed and gain will be what allows the camera to adjust based on different light (to a point).

Based on your image above, I wouldn't say that I would try another camera than the 5442-ZE. The only exception would be the 4K/X as an overview.
 
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Your results may not be a good as you might think. The first problem is that the light is in front of the camera which will result in backlighting any potential targets. It also doesn't appear all that bright. The only way to know for sure is to test using a video camera. Cell phone cameras can easily outperform the best surveillance cameras.
 
It is not a waste of time and money....you just need to manage the expectations of an cellphone camera or DSLR camera versus a surveillance camera.

Every one of these cameras have more processing of the images than a DSLR camera or cellphone camera. Some are worse than others. Then there is the compression of the video, etc. Turn off NR on one of these cameras and you will see how much processing is used.

You will find a BIG difference between photography equipment and these cameras. Digital zoom works better on regular cameras than these. The sensors and optics just are not at the same level. These cameras are designed for 24/7 use with abuse from the elements. DSLR cameras or a cellphone are designed for a different working environment and purpose. Hang a DSLR camera outside and see how long it lasts LOL! But the quality would be better for the time it was working (but also a lot more storage needed too).

Remember these are surveillance cameras, not DSLR cameras, so you have to check your expectations. For example, you can see individual hairs and skin pores with DSLR photography equipment or even an iphone camera and you won't with these kinds of cameras. These are for a different use and different expectations.
  • Sensor Size - a full frame DSLR sensor size is 864mm^2; whereas a 1/2.8" sensor popular on many cameras would be 20mm^2, so the "real" camera can collect over 40 times more light than a surveillance camera. And this doesn't even account for less light available for an 8MP versus 2MP for the same size sensor.
  • Shutter Speed (Exposure) - Taking a picture with a "real" camera, you can slow the shutter down to 1/2s or longer for a nice clean picture of a person not moving. Perps rarely stand still and we need a shutter of at least 1/60s to minimize the blur.
  • Aperture - With a "real" camera you focus on a specific part of the field of view, while a surveillance needs to focus on things in the foreground and background, which means the aperture is smaller, further compounding the light issue.
  • Compression - A single 8MP image from a "real" camera could be upwards of 5MB of storage. In surveillance cameras, if you record at 15FPS, every second of video could be 75MB or more, which could equate to 6.5TB per day per camera. Obviously most are not going to have that kind of storage, so lossy compression algorithms are used to reduce storage and network bandwidth requirement, and that can add noise.
  • Environment - a "real" camera is used mainly under ideal conditions, whereas a surveillance camera is going 24/7 in every type of element, so the design and size impacts its capabilities.
The goal of surveillance cameras is to capture clean images with enough detail that the police can make an ID and the 5442 will certainly be able to do that.
 
I didn't realize my cell phone camera quality would be compared to a security camera. The pics were intended only to convey location, distance and give an idea of lighting conditions. It was not intended to be a representation of the image quality of my phone or any other camera.
 
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The only way to know, is to test a camera in proposed locations.
If you also have coach lights by the doors of your garage, you may be fine, with proper camera location.
 
wittaj said:
I have 35,000 lumen radiating off the front of my house
Click to expand...
Are these legitimate numbers, or marketing numbers? That is literally equal to 4 or 5 pair of HID automotive headlights, or 15 150w halogen bulbs. That is an insane amount of light.
 
I used your cell phone capture as a comparison specifically because it captures more light and is more capable than a surveillance camera. I don't want you to be mislead by that image versus what a surveillance camera can produce. The foreground lighting problem still remains, no matter what camera is involved.
 
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I honestly have nothing to compare to except a few digital night vision scopes. Is visible light just preferred due to color for the 5442? Maybe I am wrongly assuming that 850nm is usable for these cameras?
 
Depending on the model the 5442s will see 850nm. Models that end in "AS" I believe are "full color" and do require white light because they won't see IR at all. It all comes down to the amount of light, the direction the light comes from and the shutter/exposure speed. You will want an exposure speed of at least 1/60 (16.66ms) and preferably 1/100 (10.0ms) to capture blur free motion at night. Daytime is rarely a problem.
 
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I guess the "5442" is just a series number or something. I definitely didn't expect completely different cameras with the same base model number. Lots to decipher in this industry
 
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