Your recommendations for a system

[maximuss]

Just bought a house and its in an open field with a just a few other houses nearby. Im looking for a great system $2-3k range that has great night vision, alarms, sirens, an auto detection mode at night that would sound an alarm if it senses a person near the house, and a camera in the house to sense intrusion and signal. It would be great to have a wifi connection so I can see whats happening if im away from home.
The house is a rectangle 20f(6m) by 30f(8m) with a storage container on one side. Would need all angles covered.

Thinking of:
Frigate + blue iris
Standalone PC
LifePo4 battery backup
Outdoor Cameras im thinking 4x Dahua 4MP TiOC Network PTZ Camera (25x Zoom) (overkill?)
Indoor 1x 2MP Lite AI IR Vari-Focal Eyeball IP Camera
NVE from ipcam store 16 Channel POE Plug-N-Play 4K NVR (Uniview)

PoE switch reccomendations?

Are there some in home hidden bullet camera recommendations? Are there some very loud sirens that can be installed along with this system?

Am I on the right track with all of this?

 

[mat200]

Just bought a house and its in an open field with a just a few other houses nearby. Im looking for a great system $2-3k range that has great night vision, alarms, sirens, an auto detection mode at night that would sound an alarm if it senses a person near the house, and a camera in the house to sense intrusion and signal. It would be great to have a wifi connection so I can see whats happening if im away from home.
The house is a rectangle 20f(6m) by 30f(8m) with a storage container on one side. Would need all angles covered.

Thinking of:
Frigate + blue iris
Standalone PC
LifePo4 battery backup
Outdoor Cameras im thinking 4x Dahua 4MP TiOC Network PTZ Camera (25x Zoom) (overkill?)
Indoor 1x 2MP Lite AI IR Vari-Focal Eyeball IP Camera
NVE from ipcam store 16 Channel POE Plug-N-Play 4K NVR (Uniview)

PoE switch reccomendations?

Are there some in home hidden bullet camera recommendations? Are there some very loud sirens that can be installed along with this system?

Am I on the right track with all of this?

Welcome @maximuss

Ideally get the same NVR OEM as the OEM of the cameras ...

Otherwise, many here like Blue Iris on a PC ..

Also, most of us prefer getting more fixed view cameras vs PTZs as our main cameras ..

 

[sebastiantombs]

I don't believe the TIOC cameras are an appropriate choice. Their night vision is not as good as the 5442 series for example. Additionally, the LEDs and sire are kind of wimpy, especially in a wide open environment as you describe.

I'd also be reticent to fire loud sirens based on camera motion detection, even if it's verified by AI like DeepStack or SenseAI. There are too many false positives even using those products unless you like getting woken up with a start in the middle of the night when a deer gets ID'd as a person.

A PTZ is nice as an augmentation but it is not a primary camera. If it has auto track capabilities it can be triggered to do that from spotter cameras using Blue Iris. A PTZ on auto patrol always ends up looking the wrong way at the wrong time, Murphy's Law.

 

[wittaj]

TIOC is another tool in the toolbox, but you wouldn't want to rely on them for anything. I certainly wouldn't get it as a PTZ combo.

I can also tell you the white light or red/blue if you get the TIOC version is more gimmicky than anything else outside. Nobody will see it unless they are looking at the camera. I have one so I know LOL.

If all you have are 4 PTZ cameras, they will be looking the wrong way. PTZs are a great compliment to a fixed cam system, especially when the fixed cams are used as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location.

See this thread on camera recommendations based on the distances you want to IDENTIFY. Keep in mind one camera is not a be all, see all.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[tech_junkie]

Something like this, I would suggest the fallowing Hikvision system:
4x DS-2CD2387G2P-LSU/SL
for the fisheye: DS-2CD63C5G0E-IS
NVR: DS-7716NI-M4/16P
hidden camera: DS-2CD6425G1-30

 

[maximuss]

Something like this, I would suggest the fallowing Hikvision system:
4x DS-2CD2387G2P-LSU/SL
for the fisheye: DS-2CD63C5G0E-IS
NVR: DS-7716NI-M4/16P
hidden camera: DS-2CD6425G1-30

Sweet thanks! Do you happen to know some other very loud siren system than can be activated automatically/manually? And a "best" motion detection system?

TIOC is another tool in the toolbox, but you wouldn't want to rely on them for anything. I certainly wouldn't get it as a PTZ combo.

I can also tell you the white light or red/blue if you get the TIOC version is more gimmicky than anything else outside. Nobody will see it unless they are looking at the camera. I have one so I know LOL.

If all you have are 4 PTZ cameras, they will be looking the wrong way. PTZs are a great compliment to a fixed cam system, especially when the fixed cams are used as spotter cams to point the PTZ to the correct location.

See this thread on camera recommendations based on the distances you want to IDENTIFY. Keep in mind one camera is not a be all, see all.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

Gocha, will look at stationary cameras.

I don't believe the TIOC cameras are an appropriate choice. Their night vision is not as good as the 5442 series for example. Additionally, the LEDs and sire are kind of wimpy, especially in a wide open environment as you describe.

I'd also be reticent to fire loud sirens based on camera motion detection, even if it's verified by AI like DeepStack or SenseAI. There are too many false positives even using those products unless you like getting woken up with a start in the middle of the night when a deer gets ID'd as a person.

A PTZ is nice as an augmentation but it is not a primary camera. If it has auto track capabilities it can be triggered to do that from spotter cameras using Blue Iris. A PTZ on auto patrol always ends up looking the wrong way at the wrong time, Murphy's Law.

Ok! Seems like a big concensus here that ptz is not the way to go, and TIOC is not the best thing to buy. Is there a "best" motion detection system?

Welcome @maximuss

Ideally get the same NVR OEM as the OEM of the cameras ...

Otherwise, many here like Blue Iris on a PC ..

Also, most of us prefer getting more fixed view cameras vs PTZs as our main cameras ..

Thanks for the welcome! Do you mean buy the HIKvision NVR?

 

[wittaj]

The thread I linked above provides camera recommendations, each one with AI motion detection in them. Cameras either have motion detection (cheaper cams) or AI for human and vehicle (better cameras).

OEM means Original Equipment Manufacturer - Dahua and Hikvision make a lot of cameras for other companies.

Lorex, Amcrest, Empiretech are a few examples of OEM to Dahua

Basically don't buy a Reolink NVR and expect Dahua cameras to work with it - match brand of NVR to brand of cameras (or OEM)

 

[maximuss]

The thread I linked above provides camera recommendations, each one with AI motion detection in them. Cameras either have motion detection (cheaper cams) or AI for human and vehicle (better cameras).

OEM means Original Equipment Manufacturer - Dahua and Hikvision make a lot of cameras for other companies.

Lorex, Amcrest, Empiretech are a few examples of OEM to Dahua

Basically don't buy a Reolink NVR and expect Dahua cameras to work with it - match brand of NVR to brand of cameras (or OEM)

Love your post, thank you for the detailed breakdown! Basically use your recommendations and choose any of the Dahua/Hikvision or OEM companies to buy a camera with those specs.

Do you know of any very loud siren system for intruders (manual, or auto)?

 

[tech_junkie]

Do you know of any very loud siren system for intruders (manual, or auto)?

Siren

https://a.co/d/8hXkesd

AC apaptor

https://a.co/d/0O7qwFw

Here is an example of usage with a Hikvision system:

 

[maximuss]

S

Siren

https://a.co/d/8hXkesd

AC apaptor

https://a.co/d/0O7qwFw

Here is an example of usage with a Hikvision system:

Awesome, thanks!

 

[Cold-Lemonade]

I recommend Frigate + Google Coral TPU, I have 7 Dahau ip cameras (or Dahua-clones) connected to a Netgear POE switch, which connects to a Minisforum GK41 with 8TB of storage. The system runs beautifully. Two of my cameras have integrated sirens. Frigate works well with Home Assistant. So when Frigate detects a person where a person shouldn't be, it tells Home Assistant and Home Assistant will turn on a bunch of smart devices, including flood lights and sirens.

I don't understand why more people don't use Frigate.

 

[wittaj]

I recommend Frigate + Google Coral TPU, I have 7 Dahau ip cameras (or Dahua-clones) connected to a Netgear POE switch, which connects to a Minisforum GK41 with 8TB of storage. The system runs beautifully. Two of my cameras have integrated sirens. Frigate works well with Home Assistant. So when Frigate detects a person where a person shouldn't be, it tells Home Assistant and Home Assistant will turn on a bunch of smart devices, including flood lights and sirens.

I don't understand why more people don't use Frigate.

Because the Hookup doesn't recommend Frigate (like everything, it has its place and you have found it).

 

[Rob2020]

I am 100% invested in Dahua (OEM and EmpireTech/Andy rebrands) and Blue Iris purchased form the Ipcamtalk store. This decision came from reading, research, and recommendations on this forum.

I am 100% happy with my choice after about 18 months of continuous use, that is high praise.

 

[Cold-Lemonade]

Because the Hookup doesn't recommend Frigate (like everything, it has its place and you have found it).

This "review" of Frigate by The Hook Up is ridiculous. It is not a review at all. He doesn't even say what version he "reviewed". Frigate is being constantly improved. I suspect he's pushing products that earn him money. As he says, Frigate is free. So there's no money in it for him. What a pathetic video! He should have actually reviewed Frigate and demonstrated the problems he claims he encountered. I don't take this guy seriously. He's just a grifter.

 

[Kevman]

I recommend Frigate + Google Coral TPU, I have 7 Dahau ip cameras (or Dahua-clones) connected to a Netgear POE switch, which connects to a Minisforum GK41 with 8TB of storage. The system runs beautifully. Two of my cameras have integrated sirens. Frigate works well with Home Assistant. So when Frigate detects a person where a person shouldn't be, it tells Home Assistant and Home Assistant will turn on a bunch of smart devices, including flood lights and sirens.

I don't understand why more people don't use Frigate.

BTW how did you attach 8TB storage to the machine? USB? Does it perform fast enough as internal?

 

[Cold-Lemonade]

@Kevman I use an external housing for a 3.5 inch SATA drive that I connect via USB 3.0--it is a powered housing with a fan. There are actually two two hard drives in the system that I've set up to appear as one on Ubuntu. There is a 6TB drive in the external housing and a 2TB 2.5 inch drive inside my Minisforum GK41. I don't notice any performance issues. I am able simultaneously record 11 cameras at high resolution 1080p or better. I save all of my recordings for 3 weeks and I only use 87% of my storage capacity. See links below:

Hard drives:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H28M89D

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D99S8Z7

External hdd housing:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D72Z4XD

 

[Kevman]

@Kevman I use an external housing for a 3.5 inch SATA drive that I connect via USB 3.0--it is a powered housing with a fan. There are actually two two hard drives in the system that I've set up to appear as one on Ubuntu. There is a 6TB drive in the external housing and a 2TB 2.5 inch drive inside my Minisforum GK41. I don't notice any performance issues. I am able simultaneously record 11 cameras at high resolution 1080p or better. I save all of my recordings for 3 weeks and I only use 87% of my storage capacity. See links below:

Hard drives:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H28M89D

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D99S8Z7

External hdd housing:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07D72Z4XD

Thanks. I was interested since I'm looking for mini pc for firewall and it looks almost same.
Looks like Frigate requirement is lower than Blue Iris.
I may play with my old HP N40L and Mac mini 2012, but their cpus are not enough..

 

[Cold-Lemonade]

Looks like Frigate requirement is lower than Blue Iris.

I know there are many fans of Blue Iris here. It did not fit my needs. I found the recommendation to turn off Windows updates to get it to run properly something that I could not stomach. Well written software should not force you to compromise on your system's security. Also, the minimum hardware requirements seem to use a lot of electricity for something that you're going to leave running 24/7.

The learning curve on Frigate is probably steeper. You need to know some basics about how to use linux and run a docker container. Configuring your system requires you write some code. The documentation is pretty good and there are some useful YouTube videos out there to get you started if you're unfamiliar. I run Frigate on Ubuntu server 22.04 and its integrated with my Home Assistant running on a RP4.

One of the knocks against Frigate is that it does not use H.265 encoding, but the older H.264 standard. But I don't see a meaningful performance difference for my needs.

 

[wittaj]

I know there are many fans of Blue Iris here. It did not fit my needs. I found the recommendation to turn off Windows updates to get it to run properly something that I could not stomach. Well written software should not force you to compromise on your system's security. Also, the minimum hardware requirements seem to use a lot of electricity for something that you're going to leave running 24/7.

The learning curve on Frigate is probably steeper. You need to know some basics about how to use linux and run a docker container. Configuring your system requires you write some code. The documentation is pretty good and there are some useful YouTube videos out there to get you started if you're unfamiliar. I run Frigate on Ubuntu server 22.04 and its integrated with my Home Assistant running on a RP4.

One of the knocks against Frigate is that it does not use H.265 encoding, but the older H.264 standard. But I don't see a meaningful performance difference for my needs.

And that is fine BI didn't fit your needs, but for many it does.

It is more the Windows updates will update a driver and mess the whole thing up. No different than all the daily posts we get here where someone tries to update the firmware on their NVR or camera and bricks it. At least with Windows it is much easier to rollback the driver than fix a bricked cam or NVR.

Plus even a Windows computer without getting windows updates is still more secure than a NEVER updated NVR, especially if you treat it as an NVR and don't do anything else on it. Plus we are still running antivirus that regularly gets updated. An NVR rarely sees an update and when it does, it is usually to fix a security vulnerability that has been known for over a year.

You can certainly get lower power consuming devices. Many here run a BI PC for the same or less power than an NVR...

 

[The Automation Guy]

I know there are many fans of Blue Iris here. It did not fit my needs. I found the recommendation to turn off Windows updates to get it to run properly something that I could not stomach. Well written software should not force you to compromise on your system's security. Also, the minimum hardware requirements seem to use a lot of electricity for something that you're going to leave running 24/7.

I certainly don't want to appear that I am pushing BI, because there are a lot of things to consider when choosing a NVR solution. Your comment about power usage is a perfect example of things that need to be considered.....

That being said, I have to say that turning off Windows update is not something that has to be done to make BI work. Perhaps many years ago when Windows was less mature, updates caused issues regularly. But I have been running BI for several years now and I don't turn off automatic Windows updates and I have never had an issue with BI that was caused by a Windows update. That's not to say that that a Windows update can't affect BI or that it will never happen. But it is not some sort of ongoing stability issue that can only be fixed by turning off Windows update. If it happens, it is an outlier and not a normal problem.

To be honest, I can't remember a single issue with BI that wasn't self-inflicted by some choice of setup options (ie I simply set a camera up wrong, or didn't set up a zone the right way, etc, etc, etc) or a completely new feature that was still a little buggy but was eventually fixed (that I only experienced because I downloaded a beta release, etc). I will say that none of these issues effected the overall stability of the BI system either. A particular camera might not act/respond like I expected because I set it up wrong, but the overall system worked just fine. I bet my "up time" is 99.99997% over the last 3 years.