New Setup Advice Wanted

[LordDawkins]

Hi all,

I am new here, I stumbled across this forum when looking into various Dahua cameras as part of a new install.
I am based in the UK but Dahua parts seem to be readily available here through some channels.
I won't be doing the install myself and have had a friendly local company come around and give me their advice of what is required, though they are happy to just do install and not supply.

I am looking for 4 cameras in total (with options to expand up to 8).
It seems most cameras are pretty capable during the day so it seems that the focus is more on the night time performance.
These will be covering:

• My front driveway - lit by a street light
• My front door - lit by the same street light
• My rear garden - no light but motion activated flood light
• A side passage - no light but motion activated flood light

I had originally planned to go with Ubiquiti as I already have various pieces of their kit on the network side but the installer recommended Dahua (who I had never heard of before).

He has suggested that for the front driveway I would have a 5mp TIOC turrent cam (DHIP520) and a 5mp IPC cam (DHIP503) for the other 3. The part numbers they gave me don't match up with anything I can find but oh well.

What made me come across this site was when I was looking in to the 8mp TIOC cameras and found that they are not well received on here due to the limited CPU and sensor ratio?
I see that the IPC-Color4K-X is touted as being the go to unit for most people, but can't find much about it nor can I figure out what the whole part number is?

Additionally, I cannot find any images of what any of the cameras look like when installed with the lights on, will I just have a big spotlight on constantly at night or do these sort of activate under a detection event?
I am not overly fussed by the blue flashing lights, though having the option to talk might be handy in very limited situations (such as a postman at the front door).

Another consideration seems to be the NVR as a lot of the entry units do not support more than 1 4k video stream, so I did a bit of searching and found the NVR4108HS-8P-EI which seems to be a more capable unit?

I have read a lot of comments on here that its not all about megapixels and I am more than to be enlightened as to what would be more suitable or better performing in low light conditions.

Any help and guidance you can provide will be very much appreciated. I am definitely a CCTV novice.

 

[cyberwolf_uk]

Welcome to having no more money and being paranoid going forward

Read the well put together "Cliff Notes" and come back when you have more questions

IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes

Information in this section was contributed by [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/mat200.29441/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@matt200[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/giomania.36271/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@giomania [/COLOR][/URL] [/LIST] Any dedicated manufacturer NVR should match...

www.ipcamtalk.com

 

[LordDawkins]

Welcome to having no more money and being paranoid going forward

Read the well put together "Cliff Notes" and come back when you have more questions

IP Cam Talk Cliff Notes

Information in this section was contributed by [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/mat200.29441/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@matt200[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL='https://ipcamtalk.com/members/giomania.36271/'][COLOR=#0000b3]@giomania [/COLOR][/URL] [/LIST] Any dedicated manufacturer NVR should match...

www.ipcamtalk.com

Thanks, I am giving it a good read now, its going to take a while!

 

[garycrist]

You hit just in time for Andy's Spring Sale!

EmpireTech 2024 Spring Sales

Hey Guys This year's Spring Sales is coming soon, thanks for all guys support here in 2023 and we can keep moving on. It's bit warmer now, so it's the time for the Spring Sales. We add the new 4 series PTZ with detterrence function, and more 5 series cameras into S3. We will go on the lottery...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[LordDawkins]

You hit just in time for Andy's Spring Sale!

EmpireTech 2024 Spring Sales

Hey Guys This year's Spring Sales is coming soon, thanks for all guys support here in 2023 and we can keep moving on. It's bit warmer now, so it's the time for the Spring Sales. We add the new 4 series PTZ with detterrence function, and more 5 series cameras into S3. We will go on the lottery...

ipcamtalk.com

Does he ship direct to the UK? Or have routes in. If I order from the US its just going to kill me on customs (plus I just read that the US has different firmware to the international versions?)

 

[wittaj]

Does he ship direct to the UK? Or have routes in. If I order from the US its just going to kill me on customs (plus I just read that the US has different firmware to the international versions?)

Yes he does - many members here from the UK buy from him - plus he has a website you can order from or direct via DM on that first page of the sale thread.

 

[garycrist]

When DM to Andy, take into account he's on Hong Kong time.
But, sometimes I wonder how much sleep he gets!

Don't spend any money till you know what you need not want!
But don't worry we will help you spend wisely!

 

[wittaj]

Yep stay away from the 8MP TIOC camera. It is on a sensor designed for 2MP.

Here is the review thread on the 4K/X:

Worlds First Review - Dahua - IPC-Color4K-X / DH-IPC-HFW5849T1-ASE-LED - Full Color 4K Camera

Intro I’m excited to be doing another Worlds First Review. this time as I mentioned in the full color thread, I’ve been testing the new Dahua full color 4K camera. This was provided courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY for a fair, honest, no holds barred, unbiased review. I’ll attempt to answer any and...

ipcamtalk.com

These white lights on the cameras are not much stronger than a mobile device flashlight - looks bright looking straight at it, but from the camera looking out, maybe a 10 foot circle once you speed up the shutter to minimize blur.

Think about a couple of cellphone flashlights pointed at you - the white LED is bright looking straight into them.

Here is what it looks like with the LED at 100%. Camera on the left, a flashlight in the middle, and a cellphone on the right.






And with just the camera on the left and a cellphone flashlight on the right.






See this thread for the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value in terms of price and performance day and night.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

 

[LordDawkins]

Yep stay away from the 8MP TIOC camera. It is on a sensor designed for 2MP.

Here is the review thread on the 4K/X:

Worlds First Review - Dahua - IPC-Color4K-X / DH-IPC-HFW5849T1-ASE-LED - Full Color 4K Camera

Intro I’m excited to be doing another Worlds First Review. this time as I mentioned in the full color thread, I’ve been testing the new Dahua full color 4K camera. This was provided courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY for a fair, honest, no holds barred, unbiased review. I’ll attempt to answer any and...

ipcamtalk.com

These white lights on the cameras are not much stronger than a mobile device flashlight - looks bright looking straight at it, but from the camera looking out, maybe a 10 foot circle once you speed up the shutter to minimize blur.

Think about a couple of cellphone flashlights pointed at you - the white LED is bright looking straight into them.

Here is what it looks like with the LED at 100%. Camera on the left, a flashlight in the middle, and a cellphone on the right.


And with just the camera on the left and a cellphone flashlight on the right.


See this thread for the commonly recommended cameras (along with Amazon links) based on distance to IDENTIFY that represent the overall best value in terms of price and performance day and night.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

Thanks for the insight in to how the cameras look from the street, much appreciated.

I have read that thread you linked as it is linked off of the cliff notes

 

[LordDawkins]

Right so I have read the cliff notes (mostly) and a few of the articles linked off of that as well. I will admit, the amount of information to digest is quite overwhelming, but I will do my best!

So taking in to consideration the focal lengths, as well as the recommended distances for the use of certain cameras I have come up with the following, though I am happy to be corrected or receive advice.

The initial setup would be 5 cameras, with the possibility of adding more (8 channel NVR):

• Front driveway
  • 2 x IPC-COLOR4K-X cameras, set up to overlap each other
• Front door and path
  • 1 x IPC-T54IR-AS-S3 camera to overlook the front door and pathway up to the door
• Rear Garden
  • 1 x IPC-COLOR4K-X camera to overlook the rear garden and 2 of the rear entrances
• Side passage
  • 1 x IPC-COLOR4K-X camera to overlook a side passage (could possibly be swapped with a lower end camera as its not much of an area to cover)

All of these are paired with a PFA130-E junction box (though not sure if they are all required but rather have them and not need it)

I have paired this with a NVR8CH-AI 8 channel NVR as it supports 2 HDDs, along with processing of up to 8 x 8mp streams without AI enabled.
A point of inquiry here, do you not have the cameras run the AI software? Is the AI feature on the NVR more for non-AI cameras?

I am not looking to go super overkill initially as I fear this is a very expensive path to venture down! I may add an overview camera or license plate camera further down the line if I feel the need but I am initially just looking for some coverage as I currently have none and would like to be able to check on the property when I am not there.

I have tried to show how I plan to have this set up via some images of my property.

Front driveway and doorway. Primary focus here is to capture the cars on the driveway and anyone approaching the front door. I am aware it will not have the FOV for the side passage on the right of the image.
There is a street light just out of frame in the bottom left which provides decent night lighting, but happy to put on the LEDs if required.
The rectangles identify a distance of around 20ish feet away from the camera.
I would prefer to mount the cameras higher up near the soffets for aesthetic purposes but I understand that this is not recommended or ideal, will have to see how I feel on the day of install!


Rear garden and side passage (left of image hard to see).
The idea here is to cover the majority of the rear of the house and garden with the red camera, it won't be perfect but it should be half decent. If I am lucky it may even capture a little bit of the garage at the end of my garden, though I am not expecting miracles. There are 2 flood lights that detect motion in the garden and will illuminate when it is detected.
The green camera will be pointed around the corner on the left and covers a much smaller area, so possibly could swap this with another lower end camera (possible another 5mp from the front). There is a flood light installed on that corner and this comes on to illuminate the garden and side passage when motion is detected.
Again, I would prefer to mount these cameras nearer the soffets for aesthetics but we will see.



As I said, I am happy to receive criticism or helpful feedback, this is all new to me.
Thanks for reading

 

[dubber]

• rear garden - no light but motion activated flood light
• A side passage - no light but m

For rear , I would recommend the camera below since you stated that there are no lights other the motion activated lights. I recommend the IR camera unless you tend to keep the built in LED lights from the 4KX on at night.

Mini-Review - 5442-Z4E-S3 AKA B54IR-Z4E S3 - Replacement to the 5442-Z4E

As many of us are aware, Dahua decided to keep the same model numbers of some of their most popular models like the 5442-Z12E and the 5442 series cameras, but they have been updated with a newer GUI and specs that on paper show better than the previous version as was discussed in this thread...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Ri22o]

As mentioned above, using a motion light is usually not advised.

And, while aesthetically pleasing, mounting under your soffits is too high. Unless you want these for overview and to see when something happened, and not who did it, you will want to install around 7-8'. See my link below, if you haven't already, for more information on mounting heights, FOVs, focal lengths, etc.

"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

I have gained a lot of knowledge since I signed up and wanted to share my experience and examples of improvements and changes for others who are coming from a "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" system mentality. My ongoing "build/looking for advice" thread can be found here...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[wittaj]

+1 agree those fixed lens cams are all too high to IDENTIFY. You will get tops of heads and hoodies. Great overview locations though, but get them lower if you want faces.

Also keep in mind that this camera is designed for performance, and rapidly changing light conditions means you potentially miss the clean capture of the perp.

Further, motion activated lights are not a deterrent. There are enough videos here showing that perps do not flinch when a floodlight turns on. They avoid homes all lit up, so go with floodlights on all night.

Watch this video someone posted and how the floodlight comes on and they don't even flinch. But then the audio comes on and they don't know which way to run LOL.

https://ipcamtalk.com/attachments/whatsapp-video-2020-07-28-at-7-23-08-pm-mp4.73970/

Either keep the lights on all night or not at all to ensure the best chance of capture.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated floodlight comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:

Now some cameras do better than others when adjusting, but regardless there will be a momentary blindness of some sort. The question is will it be at the time of optimal capture or not.

 

[LordDawkins]

As mentioned above, using a motion light is usually not advised.

And, while aesthetically pleasing, mounting under your soffits is too high. Unless you want these for overview and to see when something happened, and not who did it, you will want to install around 7-8'. See my link below, if you haven't already, for more information on mounting heights, FOVs, focal lengths, etc.

"I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything..." - This is why you need specific FOVs with purposeful focal lengths.

I have gained a lot of knowledge since I signed up and wanted to share my experience and examples of improvements and changes for others who are coming from a "I want 2.8mm cameras everywhere to see everything" system mentality. My ongoing "build/looking for advice" thread can be found here...

ipcamtalk.com

+1 agree those fixed lens cams are all too high to IDENTIFY. You will get tops of heads and hoodies. Great overview locations though, but get them lower if you want faces.

Also keep in mind that this camera is designed for performance, and rapidly changing light conditions means you potentially miss the clean capture of the perp.

Further, motion activated lights are not a deterrent. There are enough videos here showing that perps do not flinch when a floodlight turns on. They avoid homes all lit up, so go with floodlights on all night.

Watch this video someone posted and how the floodlight comes on and they don't even flinch. But then the audio comes on and they don't know which way to run LOL.

https://ipcamtalk.com/attachments/whatsapp-video-2020-07-28-at-7-23-08-pm-mp4.73970/

Either keep the lights on all night or not at all to ensure the best chance of capture.

Here is usually what happens when a motion activated floodlight comes on - it just about completely blinds the camera right at the moment of optimal opportunity to get the picture. There are 3 deer in this picture and two of them are lost in the blinded white while the camera's exposure adjusts to the rapid change in available light:


Now some cameras do better than others when adjusting, but regardless there will be a momentary blindness of some sort. The question is will it be at the time of optimal capture or not.

Thanks both. To be honest the flood lights were installed more for me when I am in the garden at night, rather than as a deterrent to burglars! If the cameras I choose come with the LEDs (such as the color4k) I am more than happy to keep the LEDs on all the time at night and disable the flood lights (or leave them on permanently, whatever is best after a bit of playing).

Re the height of the cameras, I understand what you are saying and will take that recommendation on board (though would like to stay away from mounting on the exposed brickwork if possible). My main concern with mounting them so low is that they are within reach of an average male, so I guess you better hope you get a good picture before they damage it or point it in the other direction? I guess thats the point of the overview camera.

 

[LordDawkins]

For rear , I would recommend the camera below since you stated that there are no lights other the motion activated lights. I recommend the IR camera unless you tend to keep the built in LED lights from the 4KX on at night.

Mini-Review - 5442-Z4E-S3 AKA B54IR-Z4E S3 - Replacement to the 5442-Z4E

As many of us are aware, Dahua decided to keep the same model numbers of some of their most popular models like the 5442-Z12E and the 5442 series cameras, but they have been updated with a newer GUI and specs that on paper show better than the previous version as was discussed in this thread...

ipcamtalk.com

Thanks for the recommendation, this does look like a very capable camera when there is no light available, I will keep it in mind depending on what I decide to go for re lighting.

 

[Ri22o]

Re the height of the cameras, I understand what you are saying and will take that recommendation on board (though would like to stay away from mounting on the exposed brickwork if possible). My main concern with mounting them so low is that they are within reach of an average male, so I guess you better hope you get a good picture before they damage it or point it in the other direction? I guess thats the point of the overview camera.

The "I want to mount them higher so they don't get messed with" argument comes up frequently and, yes, it is a risk you take when mounting them lower, but a properly provisioned camera, and system with overlapping fields of view, solves this issue.

 

[LordDawkins]

The "I want to mount them higher so they don't get messed with" argument comes up frequently and, yes, it is a risk you take when mounting them lower, but a properly provisioned camera, and system with overlapping fields of view, solves this issue.

Understood and that is why I am here to learn how to do this properly it seems like the only way to cover all the points is to go 'overkill'. Perhaps I will add an overview camera in the rear garden to ease my concern with the lower mounting of the cameras (either 5442 or 4k-X on that list, or perhaps the 5442-ZE as recommended above).

 

[looney2ns]

When properly and securely installed, the cameras are pretty hard to "mess with" even if reached.

 

[LordDawkins]

So I have done some measuring today regarding heights of installs.

• The front drive cameras will be about 11ft if mounted just as the render starts.
  • Reading the link that Ri22o sent it seems he had some success with this height so this will likely be fine with the color4k-x overlapping each other
• The front door I can mount at 8-9ft and have it pointing down the path using the T54IR-AS-S3
• The rear garden, the floor lights are at about 9ft so if I mount somewhere just beneath them this should be at a desirable height.
  • Will likely do Color4k-X pointing towards the garden and a T54IR-AS-S3 pointing down the side passage
• I am going to add another T54IR-AS-S3 or Color4k-X above the rear door in the garden to provide coverage of that door and a bit of overlap with the other camera.
  • I am torn between these 2 as I will already have the LED on from the other 4k-X I may as well use the LED on this one for added illumination and better colour/identification possibilities?

I suppose my final query for now (thanks for all the assistance so far) is... is it recommended to mount a turrent cam flat to a vertical wall if there is no soffet to install on? I have seen images of such a thing but not sure if that is the ideal setup or not, or if this is where either a bullet cam or the wall mount accessory are to be used (I really don't like the look of the wall mount)

 

[wittaj]

You can use either mount. While the wall mount is bigger, I have found that much easier to work with than the circular ones, especially if on a ladder LOL.