Remote property broken into...

[bmwproboi05]

So long story short… My family has a remote property that is used for recreational stuff, and someone broke into one of our storage unit and stole some stuff ( costly things…). It seems that they first cut down our no trespassing sign on our gate into the property to see if we would rehang or do anything ( didn’t since we haven’t been out there in a while. They proceeded in and began to cut the lock holes on our shed to wiggle out the lock and make away with some things and our trailers.

I do have a Amcrest outdoor camera there that did catch them stealing, but I haven’t exactly figured out the complete time line as it seems it was a multi-day event. We have no internet out there, which will change.

So I am wanting to get some opinion on what to do for notification/ security. I am going to call some internet providers this weekend/ next week to get internet out their so I can atleast view the camera we have out their. I do plan to put some more up. I am wanting to put a camera near the gate, but its about 400ft away from the shack we have that will have internet access.

So here are some questions I have

1. Is it safe to run POE 400ft? I have read the max is about 300 ft.

2. What is the best way to run this cable, conduit?

3. Any wireless door sensor for the gate? Zwave?

a. I did see Nayer posted a sensor on another thread, but I do not have a NVR out there. Let alone know how I would keep it secure. The camera out there has a sd card slot

4. Any recommendation on a POE camera?

a. Sd card slot

b. Record to local NVR maybe in the future

c. Save file off site (at home/ google drive)

d. Alarm input or a API for domoticz on RPI to call on

5. Any security advice?

I have ordered a Hikvision camera on Amazon that supposed to have a sd card slot, and can send alarm from a “trip line” in camera setting. Not sure if this will work, but will test before actually hanging it up. Weather here is getting nicer, and I plan to go out there a bit more. So hopefully that helps some. I am also looking into a PIR or some driveway sensor as another way to get a signal to the RPI to send an alert message to me. My in-law is wanting some kind of alarm, Simply safe? We are also planning on demolishing the current shed and building a new one that is maybe more secure... Any input on shed design would be nice


Any in-sight will be appreciated.

 

[tangent]

Security in a remote location has it's challenges, but remote can mean a lot of different things to different people.

Do you have reliable electricity? What kind of internet is available DSL, Cable, Satellite, Cellular?
Most rural internet is pretty slow which can be pretty limiting and 12-24mo contracts are often required.

How remote is it? How big is the property? How far away is law enforcement?

 

[bmwproboi05]

Power is provided by electric company.

Internert avaliable so far is dsl and satellite. Contract not a big issue

20 min from a large city/ wallmart area, and abot 10 min away from a state lake/ park. Place has a septic system and well water. Its not to far away from civilization... Nearest living neighbor is abot 1/2 a mi to a mi away.

The property is about 80 acers 1/4 mi by 1/2 mi give/ take. Im mainly worried about the area where we will be storing things, and gate intrance. I guess I could draw it up/ provide a sat overview. Area of cocern is prob less than 5 acers I think... Hard to tell..

Law inforcement office is about 30 min away, but patrols run by the area atleast twice a day or so. When I found out about the breakin it took them about 10 min to get a deputy out their to take my report...

 

[nayr]

Satellite internet wont be desirable for remote monitoring; they wont allow inbound connections..

For driveway monitoring I am fond of air-tubes, they are extremely reliable for vehicle detection: "Ding-Ding" - Milton's Bells | Driveway Alarms | Official Site| and you dont want to be getting false alarms on this stuff... If you want/need to get approaching foot traffic then the beam sensors that they use on garage doors can work pretty well but you might get notified of Wildlife more than 2-Legged creatures.

These setups usually require pairing a typical alarm system up with a video surveillance system, the alarm system will use physical sensors to alert you to activity on your property (gates/doors/windows being opened, motion detected inside, etc) and then you can use your Camera to see whats going on and notify the proper authorities if its a real threat and not just a moose or bear.

Would be wise to design a very low power system that you will be able to maintain off battery backup power for a few hours or so.

 

[hmjgriffon]

Cameras give piece of mind but physical sensors really give it and if you do it right won't get any false alarms, dogs and cats technically aren't a false alarm lol.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[nayr]

also if you go w/battery powered wireless sensors on a remote property, and with land as large as your working with I suspect you'll want too.. you should pro-actively replace batteries on a regular basis, because you wont be able to go out and slap a new battery in when it starts warning you its getting low if nobody is home.. like before you close up for the winter, put new batteries in all your sensors.. and use good high quality ones and not the harbor freight cheapies.

Anything you can hardwire up would be highly recommended to do so, if trenching a cable out to the gate is in the realm of possibility.. then it'll probably be worth the effort, then you can hide a camera in a birdhouse watching the gate and wire up a few sensors in the area for early warning.

 

[tangent]

DSL is probably the best option but it could be super slow think 1.5/0.768. A simple magnetic switch may work on your gate. You can also get buried vehicle probes that detect changes in the EM field from a vehicle.

There's a trade off between an alarm that scares them off and a silent alarm that gives the cops time to show up while they're still there. I'd probably tend towards the silent option in this case. Range of wireless sensors and performance of batteries in cold temps could be an issue.

Trenching in rocky, mountain soil can be a PITA but it varies a lot by location. Technically the limit for Ethernet length is 328', but you could probably do 400' without issue. You'd want to use burial rated cable and probably still put it in conduit. If you've got a clear line of sight to the gate you could also put a camera with a massive zoom on your 'shed' or 'shack' but a camera closer to the gate would be better.

One thing you can do on the cameras is have them email snapshots when there's motion or a line crossing. However, this can be hard to make function reliably as cameras don't always support the security mechanisms required by gmail and the like. You could probably hide a NVR in a closet, the floor, attic.

 

[nayr]

If he uses cameras with alarm inputs, like the Starlight Z5 Bullet coming down the pipe they can be wired directly to the camera and no reason why you cant hook multiple sensors up to a single alarm input as long as they all trigger the same way (NO or NC), and with a NVR you can have it push snapshots to your mobile devices when triggered and get a few more alarm inputs

I still get false alarms from IVS from time to time w/shadows and trees and stuff.. I even had the shadow of a plane cross a line and notify me heh.

lots of ways to hide a video recorder, closets are bad ideas unless ur putting in a false ceiling or something.. the best places are the ones you come up with after smoking a few bowls and thinking of a place to hide your stash With IP you dont need a display for your NVR except for getting it on the network the first time.

 

[tangent]

yeah real sensors: pir, magnetic contact, air tube, rf probe, photoelectric beams will result in fewer false triggers (though pe beams can have more false alerts from snow and such). Most of your false triggers will be from animals with sensors like this.

Sensor wise I'd cover the following:
Doors to your buildings
Motion inside your buildings
possibly acoustic glass break inside the buildings
one or more outdoor motion sensors around your buildings
Some type of sensor on your gate or in your driveway

I'd try to hard wire as many of these as you can to reduce the number of batteries you need. On driveway monitoring if it's possible for someone to drive around your gate you might consider monitoring for traffic closer to your buildings.

On NVRs you may want to have one that's obvious and crappy like a "super mini nvr" and your good one hidden away.

 

[bmwproboi05]

Cameras give piece of mind but physical sensors really give it and if you do it right won't get any false alarms, dogs and cats technically aren't a false alarm lol.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Yes, I have notied that at home. I've been wanting to do a "laser line" by my front door, because delivery people do not ring the bell!!! Also, have been thinking of a PIR in the drive way...

also if you go w/battery powered wireless sensors on a remote property, and with land as large as your working with I suspect you'll want too.. you should pro-actively replace batteries on a regular basis, because you wont be able to go out and slap a new battery in when it starts warning you its getting low if nobody is home.. like before you close up for the winter, put new batteries in all your sensors.. and use good high quality ones and not the harbor freight cheapies.

Anything you can hardwire up would be highly recommended to do so, if trenching a cable out to the gate is in the realm of possibility.. then it'll probably be worth the effort, then you can hide a camera in a birdhouse watching the gate and wire up a few sensors in the area for early warning.

Yes, I agree! If I do go for wireless sensor I will mostly use Li bats, and probably replace them twice a year or so, especially on the heavy use area i.e main gate and door. I am still trying to find sensor, and a decent receiver for domoticz with a RPI.

DSL is probably the best option but it could be super slow think 1.5/0.768. A simple magnetic switch may work on your gate. You can also get buried vehicle probes that detect changes in the EM field from a vehicle.

There's a trade off between an alarm that scares them off and a silent alarm that gives the cops time to show up while they're still there. I'd probably tend towards the silent option in this case. Range of wireless sensors and performance of batteries in cold temps could be an issue.

Trenching in rocky, mountain soil can be a PITA but it varies a lot by location. Technically the limit for Ethernet length is 328', but you could probably do 400' without issue. You'd want to use burial rated cable and probably still put it in conduit. If you've got a clear line of sight to the gate you could also put a camera with a massive zoom on your 'shed' or 'shack' but a camera closer to the gate would be better.

One thing you can do on the cameras is have them email snapshots when there's motion or a line crossing. However, this can be hard to make function reliably as cameras don't always support the security mechanisms required by gmail and the like. You could probably hide a NVR in a closet, the floor, attic.

I am planning on getting the 20mb or more dl... Hopefully upload is decent and atleast 2mbs.

Silent alarm would be nice, but I will probably have a siren and what not just incase along with a strobing light. The main street is not really dead. I have camped out there many times, and can hear atleast a car every other hour or so at night.

I am also wondering how I am going to trench for PVC conduit. I was thinking by hand till I realize how much I hate digging up plants.lol I may buy a tiller attachment for my trimmer, and make a few passes and remove dirt as I go... 400ft would be great, it just depends if I want the cam behind the gate or on the outside... I do not think a zoom is possible as their are a lot of trees in the way. Do not want to cut them down as its the only thing blocking us from the main road. Previous owner litteraly gutted all trees at the main road...

Yes! This is what i'm hoping for. If I cannot get a steady 5-10fps stream back home. Not really needing it to be great quality 720p or less I guess... Hopefully I can get a reduntdant back up.

If he uses cameras with alarm inputs, like the Starlight Z5 Bullet coming down the pipe they can be wired directly to the camera and no reason why you cant hook multiple sensors up to a single alarm input as long as they all trigger the same way (NO or NC), and with a NVR you can have it push snapshots to your mobile devices when triggered and get a few more alarm inputs

I still get false alarms from IVS from time to time w/shadows and trees and stuff.. I even had the shadow of a plane cross a line and notify me heh.

lots of ways to hide a video recorder, closets are bad ideas unless ur putting in a false ceiling or something.. the best places are the ones you come up with after smoking a few bowls and thinking of a place to hide your stash With IP you dont need a display for your NVR except for getting it on the network the first time.

OOO! That is a nice cam, but a little expensive. I may order one to try. Having an alarm input on the cam would help reduce the wire run back the the shed/ main location.

The shead/ shack the NVR will be in is just one of your run of the mill ones with 4 walls and a window. Their no storage. Currently, their a cot, fridge, table, and a futon.lol. I may hide it outside in a box till our new shead is built. Planning on building a large shead very soon.

yeah real sensors: pir, magnetic contact, air tube, rf probe, photoelectric beams will result in fewer false triggers (though pe beams can have more false alerts from snow and such). Most of your false triggers will be from animals with sensors like this.

Sensor wise I'd cover the following:
Doors to your buildings
Motion inside your buildings
possibly acoustic glass break inside the buildings
one or more outdoor motion sensors around your buildings
Some type of sensor on your gate or in your driveway

I'd try to hard wire as many of these as you can to reduce the number of batteries you need. On driveway monitoring if it's possible for someone to drive around your gate you might consider monitoring for traffic closer to your buildings.

On NVRs you may want to have one that's obvious and crappy like a "super mini nvr" and your good one hidden away.

yeah real sensors: pir, magnetic contact, air tube, rf probe, photoelectric beams will result in fewer false triggers (though pe beams can have more false alerts from snow and such). Most of your false triggers will be from animals with sensors like this.

Sensor wise I'd cover the following:
Doors to your buildings
Motion inside your buildings
possibly acoustic glass break inside the buildings
one or more outdoor motion sensors around your buildings
Some type of sensor on your gate or in your driveway

I'd try to hard wire as many of these as you can to reduce the number of batteries you need. On driveway monitoring if it's possible for someone to drive around your gate you might consider monitoring for traffic closer to your buildings.

On NVRs you may want to have one that's obvious and crappy like a "super mini nvr" and your good one hidden away.

I plan to have the sensor all/ most hardwired, but I do not have the time to do it all at once. I am hoping to be able to just have wireless one and hardwire one by one as time permits.


All your guys inputs are appriciated! If you guys have anymore idea I would love to hear them!!

I'm currently looking into getting a 15ft pole or so put in our picnic area, and having a PTZ cam on it so I can do a quick view around the property from time to time, but cost may be an issue as its more for a fun thing. I'm also thinking of adding additional lighting, but not sure if its worth it.

 

[Jack B Nimble]

Sounds like they knew what they were doing, if pro's they will wait a while for your insurance to replace the items then likely come back.

 

[bmwproboi05]

Sounds like they knew what they were doing, if pro's they will wait a while for your insurance to replace the items then likely come back.

I wouldn't be surprised at all. It will be awhile before we replace the items as we plan to do some changes. It also why I would like the wireless/ quickish setup atm just in case. The sheriff office is going to patrol the area a little bit more over the next month. They usually drive by once a day or so, but I let them know I keep the gate shut even when I am their. I gave them permission to enter and check if left open or if they notice anything

 

[hmjgriffon]

I wouldn't be surprised at all. It will be awhile before we replace the items as we plan to do some changes. It also why I would like the wireless/ quickish setup atm just in case. The sheriff office is going to patrol the area a little bit more over the next month. They usually drive by once a day or so, but I let them know I keep the gate shut even when I am their. I gave them permission to enter and check if left open or if they notice anything

Where is this?

 

[bmwproboi05]

As in location?

 

[tangent]

Yes, I have notied that at home. I've been wanting to do a "laser line" by my front door, because delivery people do not ring the bell!!! Also, have been thinking of a PIR in the drive way...

Yes, I agree! If I do go for wireless sensor I will mostly use Li bats, and probably replace them twice a year or so, especially on the heavy use area i.e main gate and door. I am still trying to find sensor, and a decent receiver for domoticz with a RPI.

I am planning on getting the 20mb or more dl... Hopefully upload is decent and atleast 2mbs.

Silent alarm would be nice, but I will probably have a siren and what not just incase along with a strobing light. The main street is not really dead. I have camped out there many times, and can hear atleast a car every other hour or so at night.

I am also wondering how I am going to trench for PVC conduit. I was thinking by hand till I realize how much I hate digging up plants.lol I may buy a tiller attachment for my trimmer, and make a few passes and remove dirt as I go... 400ft would be great, it just depends if I want the cam behind the gate or on the outside... I do not think a zoom is possible as their are a lot of trees in the way. Do not want to cut them down as its the only thing blocking us from the main road. Previous owner litteraly gutted all trees at the main road...

Yes! This is what i'm hoping for. If I cannot get a steady 5-10fps stream back home. Not really needing it to be great quality 720p or less I guess... Hopefully I can get a reduntdant back up.

OOO! That is a nice cam, but a little expensive. I may order one to try. Having an alarm input on the cam would help reduce the wire run back the the shed/ main location.

The shead/ shack the NVR will be in is just one of your run of the mill ones with 4 walls and a window. Their no storage. Currently, their a cot, fridge, table, and a futon.lol. I may hide it outside in a box till our new shead is built. Planning on building a large shead very soon.

I plan to have the sensor all/ most hardwired, but I do not have the time to do it all at once. I am hoping to be able to just have wireless one and hardwire one by one as time permits.


All your guys inputs are appriciated! If you guys have anymore idea I would love to hear them!!

I'm currently looking into getting a 15ft pole or so put in our picnic area, and having a PTZ cam on it so I can do a quick view around the property from time to time, but cost may be an issue as its more for a fun thing. I'm also thinking of adding additional lighting, but not sure if its worth it.

By your front door at home I'd use a GE RCR-REX or Optex OP-08 hard wired motion detector.

With wireless sensors you don't get to choose the type of battery a given sensor requires a specific battery and most are lithium. But there are still issues in the cold. Beyond batteries, basic hard wired sensors are dirt cheap. A wireless magnetic door sensor can run you $20+ and a little hard wired one is like $2 and is more reliable. Something like a good outdoor motion sensor is more expensive.

I've seen small towns where they claim DSL speeds "up to 10mbps" but you're lucky if you get 1.5mbps. Take advertised speeds with a grain of salt.

Don't know where you are or what your soil is like but you could rent a trencher (looks like of like a chainsaw you push that cuts in to the ground). For hand work, a mattock is more useful than a shovel in many cases.

You've got a choice between a more conventional alarm and something internet based / diy. Especially since you share the property with others the more conventional approach may be desirable.

Shed conversions always seem to piss off rural code enforcement. Look into the requirements for building something minimalist that would actually qualify a certificate of occupancy or official 'cabin' designation it may be easier than you think and the end result is more desirable. Security laminates on the windows will slow somebody down considerably. You said you have a well and septic may as well put it to use for more than an RV hookup.

 

[bmwproboi05]

I see. I understand that performance may change come winter, but we are pretty much near the end of winter. I hope to get the major points all wired by next winter if not fall. The current gate we have has an insane gap , double door style, and planning to be replace and redo the fence at the front of the property as its not fully intact.

Ok, I wish their was an option for cable instead. Luckily the price for 6-25mbps is the same...

I thought about the trencher, but just not sure about using one. Would be great if I have other things to run at the same time.

I talked my family into going for an internet based as far as being alerted goes. My in-law wants to get simply safe or something similar out their, but I haven't really looked to much into it as we do not have much valuables out there atm. I took everything that was for critical value till I can get the lock fixed on the old shead, and maybe find a better chain for up front.

When my family bought the property we were told it was unpladed, and we could do as wel please. Some of the sheds that were their before sure speaks to that...
I have seen the films, and currently looking into buying a role. Not sure if I would want to dish out for the 3m one, but the cheaper one has some decent reviews that could work.
Their a wash room connected to the septic system at the moment. This summer we have plans to make some changes to the exisiting things such as the filtration of the water out there.

 

[hmjgriffon]

Burry boards with long rusty nails sticking up, that should help lol.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

 

[Jack B Nimble]

I own a remote property on a lake and over years have been broken into a few times. I have no internet out there but, run cameras when I am there to watch for bears etc at night. I have come to relisation that I try not to leave nice things over the winter and now don't even lock the doors. If nothing to steal then they should move on. I also have a motor home on the propery set back into woods and it got broken into 2 years ago. All they stole was liquor but, wrecked door getting in which is costly. I now leave a bottle of booze on the stairs with a note that they can have this as my gift and there is no reason to look further. Kind of an offer to the bush people and last year it worked bottle missing and no damage or anything rummaged through. I also posted many signs that cameras were in place and I stuck my old Foscams in some trees with wires running into the bark ( lodge pole pines) the bush people don't know how cameras work anyway.

 

[hmjgriffon]

I own a remote property on a lake and over years have been broken into a few times. I have no internet out there but, run cameras when I am there to watch for bears etc at night. I have come to relisation that I try not to leave nice things over the winter and now don't even lock the doors. If nothing to steal then they should move on. I also have a motor home on the propery set back into woods and it got broken into 2 years ago. All they stole was liquor but, wrecked door getting in which is costly. I now leave a bottle of booze on the stairs with a note that they can have this as my gift and there is no reason to look further. Kind of an offer to the bush people and last year it worked bottle missing and no damage or anything rummaged through. I also posted many signs that cameras were in place and I stuck my old Foscams in some trees with wires running into the bark ( log pole pines) the bush people don't know how cameras work anyway.

So sad, tis why physical defenses are needed lol.

 

[tangent]

Burry boards with long rusty nails sticking up, that should help lol.

That's a great way to get sued. Even a safer unwelcome mat to keep bears away can get you in leagl trouble if somebody is injured.

When my family bought the property we were told it was unpladed, and we could do as wel please. Some of the sheds that were their before sure speaks to that...
I have seen the films, and currently looking into buying a role. Not sure if I would want to dish out for the 3m one, but the cheaper one has some decent reviews that could work.
Their a wash room connected to the septic system at the moment. This summer we have plans to make some changes to the exisiting things such as the filtration of the water out there.

The term would be unplatted not unpladed, there are almost certainly still laws/zoning/building requirements that DO apply. Realtors routinely give people incorrect information about what they can and can't do with a property. I've seen it time an time again in rural areas. It's possible for properties to pre-date some requirements but generally the county has already done things to legally resolve such issues. This is something you should really research yourself to avoid future hassles.

Security films are harder to apply than regular tint. I'd also recommend upgrading to a decent double panned window if it's the typical really low quality stuff you see on sheds... you'd be surprised what you can find on craigslist.