Unsecured By Default from Major Retailers - Why?

[scquestions]

I've been doing a lot of research and a lot of reading on here. This is a great resource and is appreciated!

This brings me to a huge question of mine.. Why do major retailers, such as Walmart, Best Buy, Costco, and Amazon (referring to items shipped and sold by Amazon) sell security systems that, by default, are not secure? And why are they even allowed to sell them?

Sure, they tell you to change the default password, and might even force you to change it, ask you to update firmware, but other than that, they don't seem to mention anything else (such as getting a VPN). Even worse, they might recommend port forwarding, which, according to research and this forum, is extremely dangerous in regards to security!

The average consumer is looking to purchase something, set it up by following the included instructions, and be done. Yet, those instructions aren't complete for a secure setup.

What are your thoughts?

 

[fenderman]

I've been doing a lot of research and a lot of reading on here. This is a great resource and is appreciated!

This brings me to a huge question of mine.. Why do major retailers, such as Walmart, Best Buy, Costco, and Amazon (referring to items shipped and sold by Amazon) sell security systems that, by default, are not secure? And why are they even allowed to sell them?

Sure, they tell you to change the default password, and might even force you to change it, ask you to update firmware, but other than that, they don't seem to mention anything else (such as getting a VPN). Even worse, they might recommend port forwarding, which, according to research and this forum, is extremely dangerous in regards to security!

The average consumer is looking to purchase something, set it up by following the included instructions, and be done. Yet, those instructions aren't complete for a secure setup.

What are your thoughts?

because they dont care...and if the users had to setup a vpn they would never get remote viewing working...the retailers are limited to china oem'd systems at the price point you are willing to pay.
windows didnt come with built in antivirus until recently...
Home depot will sell you a door without the lock, its up to you to install it.

 

[scquestions]

because they dont care...and if the users had to setup a vpn they would never get remote viewing working...the retailers are limited to china oem'd systems at the price point you are willing to pay.
windows didnt come with built in antivirus until recently...
Home depot will sell you a door without the lock, its up to you to install it.

You made some good points!

What if they were to ship the security system with a router setup with a VPN, and just say that remote viewing won't work unless you download their app? It could be a remote viewing app like most systems have, but with a VPN built-in. Just an idea.. Then again, you did mention the price point. The pricing would probably go up a lot if they were to do this.

You made a great point about the computers and antivirus and also a good point about the doors without locks!


What's your opinion regarding Nest Cam? And Arlo? Ring? I'm assuming they're as secure as can be out of the box (compared to other systems like Night Owl and Lorex), but that comes at a price (both in camera cost, cloud storage cost, constant bandwidth usage, and camera quality)?

 

[fenderman]

You made some good points!

What if they were to ship the security system with a router setup with a VPN, and just say that remote viewing won't work unless you download their app? It could be a remote viewing app like most systems have, but with a VPN built-in. Just an idea.. Then again, you did mention the price point. The pricing would probably go up a lot if they were to do this.

You made a great point about the computers and antivirus and also a good point about the doors without locks!


What's your opinion regarding Nest Cam? And Arlo? Ring? I'm assuming they're as secure as can be out of the box (compared to other systems like Night Owl and Lorex), but that comes at a price (both in camera cost, cloud storage cost, constant bandwidth usage, and camera quality)?

You want them to add the cost of a router to a system? Then require the user to setup that router for all other network devices?
Nestcams require you to pass your data to their servers then they serve it to your phone...they are much more secure out of the box, however have severe limitations...they are junk cameras that come with a perpetual stupid tax...would be cheaper to pay a professional network engineer to setup your system.

 

[scquestions]

You want them to add the cost of a router to a system? Then require the user to setup that router for all other network devices?
Nestcams require you to pass your data to their servers then they serve it to your phone...they are much more secure out of the box, however have severe limitations...they are junk cameras that come with a perpetual stupid tax...would be cheaper to pay a professional network engineer to setup your system.

I'd like to see them add a router to the system, but the cost could be a major concern for some. And like you said, the setup could be a problem. Many just get their router from their cable company and pay the fee allowing the cable company to provide the support. So, I can see this not working out the way I'd like it to.

I'm glad to hear Nest Cam is secure. That might be the best solution for someone looking for a quick and easy setup and who is willing to pay for the convenience.

 

[fenderman]

I'd like to see them add a router to the system, but the cost could be a major concern for some. And like you said, the setup could be a problem. Many just get their router from their cable company and pay the fee allowing the cable company to provide the support. So, I can see this not working out the way I'd like it to.

I'm glad to hear Nest Cam is secure. That might be the best solution for someone looking for a quick and easy setup and who is willing to pay for the convenience.

its not just the cost...there are many reasons why someone would not want to swap routers...it would be a huge disaster,...
Nestcam is not a solution...it should never be used but for maybe a unique single indoor camera application.

 

[c hris527]

You made some good points!

What if they were to ship the security system with a router setup with a VPN, and just say that remote viewing won't work unless you download their app? It could be a remote viewing app like most systems have, but with a VPN built-in. Just an idea.. Then again, you did mention the price point. The pricing would probably go up a lot if they were to do this.

You made a great point about the computers and antivirus and also a good point about the doors without locks!


What's your opinion regarding Nest Cam? And Arlo? Ring? I'm assuming they're as secure as can be out of the box (compared to other systems like Night Owl and Lorex), but that comes at a price (both in camera cost, cloud storage cost, constant bandwidth usage, and camera quality)?

Most of my security systems setups have come from my IT business customers, They do not mind paying me to get it right the first time as far as security goes, they are seasoned customers who trust my judgement. Home users of DYI security systems will NOT pay to upgrade to a VPN until they get hacked. They Will put in smoke detectors after the first fire. I see nestcam at the box stores, fenderman is correct on the Quality of cam you have there.

 

[scquestions]

its not just the cost...there are many reasons why someone would not want to swap routers...it would be a huge disaster,...
Nestcam is not a solution...it should never be used but for maybe a unique single indoor camera application.

What do you think can be done so the average person can get setup with a security system themselves? The wiring is mostly plug and play. It's the security that's the problem. Would the best route be for homeowners to call someone out just to handle the security aspect of the system, rather than paying a markup on a complete system?

 

[scquestions]

Most of my security systems setups have come from my IT business customers, They do not mind paying me to get it right the first time as far as security goes, they are seasoned customers who trust my judgement. Home users of DYI security systems will NOT pay to upgrade to a VPN until they get hacked. They Will put in smoke detectors after the first fire. I see nestcam at the box stores, fenderman is correct on the Quality of cam you have there.

Yeah, that makes sense that the business users want it done right the first time. They can't afford to mess it up.

What changes would you like to see be made in the industry to help the average home user? There's a lot of people that can't afford a complete professional setup.

 

[c hris527]

Yeah, that makes sense that the business users want it done right the first time. They can't afford to mess it up.

What changes would you like to see be made in the industry to help the average home user? There's a lot of people that can't afford a complete professional setup.

You are not going to change the overseas re sellers period. Big Box don't care either, like everything else in this world you will get what you pay for. Everybody knows harbor freight tools will break and draw blood when pressed hard by the end user, you want quality..buy Snap on or hire somebody to do it for you. As long as the Industry will sell cheap, they do not and will not give a shit about the end user. My suggestion to you is buy cheap and study this form for DYI end users and you will make out fine. Tons of good info here for the DYI on how to have a decent system on the cheap. And for now its free.

 

[scquestions]

You are not going to change the overseas re sellers period. Big Box don't care either, like everything else in this world you will get what you pay for. Everybody knows harbor freight tools will break and draw blood when pressed hard by the end user, you want quality..buy Snap on or hire somebody to do it for you. As long as the Industry will sell cheap, they do not and will not give a shit about the end user. My suggestion to you is buy cheap and study this form for DYI end users and you will make out fine. Tons of good info here for the DYI on how to have a decent system on the cheap. And for now its free.

I just think there's potential here for a company to come along and improve this industry, like T-Mobile has changed the cellular industry.

I really have learned a lot on this forum.. It's great!