New House, outdoor rough wiring for security cameras

[tufan123]

My builder and his wiring contractor wanted $300 for security prewires. Only $45 for network prewires. Guess which I got...lol. Only regret is not getting them everywhere.

$45 is dirt cheap... Wish our guy was that cheap.

 

[mat200]

Hi Tufan,

I would ask for a discount from your guy for pulling multiple wires to one location.
( example I really like to pull at least 4 cables to my media center - should take about the same time as pulling 1-2 wires, however you would need 4 boxes of wires to do this quickly )

 

[tufan123]

Unfortunately they will not discount anything.

 

[CCTVCam]

Personally, what I would do regarding placement, is put cameras that give you an overview of every possible entry point, ie windows and doors, and then strategically placed cameras that ensure you get a facial close up of anyone who attempts to enter no matter from which direction they come from. It doesn't matter necessarily that an overview camera doesn't capture a great facial shot provided there's another camera that does. That way the over view shows what they did and the facial who they are. Provided there's some continuity between the over view and close up cameras, it's going to be very hard in my opinion for them to claim the over view doesn't show them. Don't forget as well, close ups can also be had from indoor cameras if facing windows. That said, if putting over views doesn't give you the coverage you need, by all means make them all close up. The only issue with close ups, is a narrower view angle means more potential for blackspots from which the cameras can be approached and be potentially disabled.

Having said, that, if you can afford it, you can throw as many cameras as you want at it. It just becomes unnecessarily expensive and aesthetically less please in my view if you're fitting more than are needed. A good example is a guy who lives not far from me. On the corner of his house he has 3 dome cameras (all one the one corner!). 1 looking in either direction along the house, then 1 looking down to protect the cameras from being approached from the corner. All in all overkill, when there are 2 more on the front of one of the sides covered by the corner cameras (unsure about the front of the wall in the other direction). The moral here, is poor placement has caused unnecessary duplication. If he's mirrored that all the way around, that's 20 cameras to cover 4 flat walls!

As for the wiring, get it done now once you've decided the placement. Otherwise, it's going to mean more expense if they have to channel or drill the walls once they've been plastered. One decent size piece of plaster off can mean the expense of a whole wall being skimmed. Good time now to get the ethernet in. Also bear in mind you might need electrical wiring to power security or IR flood lights to provide your cameras with good conditions for night time recording.

 

[tangent]

WOW! Thanks alot for this! We plan on having a fairly large deck. From the sliding door on the first floor to pretty much the sliding door in the basement (right to the yellow/orage camera all the way on the left) I am not sure why they are having us meet with the low voltage guys before the electrical guys but we can keep modifying/adding until electrical inspection time. I was also planning on taking outdoor flood lights for the back/sides. Should I change that location based on the camera?

Do you know where in the house you want all the alarm, camera, network, and other wiring to terminate?
Is the basement going to be finished or unfinished? With the deck, the lower cameras may need to be in different locations. You'd also want to avoid staring at the deck posts. If the basement is unfinished you could do all of the low backyard cameras yourself later.

If you decide you want some overview cameras up in the 2nd story soffits that's a location that can be accessed after the house is fully built. In addition to getting better images, lower cameras are a lot harder to install after the fact. Different builders have different sequences they like, but often low voltage stuff is done after the electrical, hvac, and plumbing. It's easier to avoid obstacles and less likely the cabling is damaged. The pictures I posted are just a rough idea of locations that would probably work well.

How much of the house is going to be brick and how much vinyl siding?

The company also does security system wiring. Full blown setup costs something like this (my friend is also building in this development and has been through this) Rough wiring instead of having them install the window/door sensors cost 1200 (this is what I will take). Is there something specific that I should request for this?

$45 is dirt cheap... Wish our guy was that cheap.

Unfortunately they will not discount anything.

make sure you have adequate network wiring inside the house.

trade offs abound. You may have some wiggle room on certain things. For example it might be possible for you to supply the cable and supply them with bundled cable that has multiple cat6 or multilple cat6 and rg6 (this would be more interior then security). You'd have to make sure you don't hold up the schedule though. You might be able to save if they pull some extra cables but don't terminate them all. The downside of things they don't terminate including alarm wiring is that it generally won't be tested and you won't know until later that the plumber cut half the wires or that 3 of them have screws in the cable. Lots of other things worth including too like wiring for 7.2 surround sound, which should be relatively low cost compared to some things.

Are you going to install the cameras yourself later, provide them with the cameras, or have them provide the cameras?

Alarm prices seem a bit high. Wiring for motion detectors and glass breaks as well as multiple keypads should be part of your system. Try to specify that all wires are home run either to the panel or a closet for a zone expander. Napco is a bit of a curious choice, they probably like it because the 4 zone expander built into the keypad lets them be lazier. That makes it harder to switch to a different panel in the future. I don't know if you have any flexibility there.

I would consider mounting the cameras even lower a bit on the wall and not soffit in the front and back of the house.

Ideally I would try to have the cameras at 8 feet or lower ( 6-8 feet is often recommended here )

Try this when you go to the site, take the great images that Tangent laid out - print it out, go there with a friend - have him / her wear a baseball cap and hoodie and bring a camera and selfie type stick or similar and TEST those locations and have your friend walk around and see if you can catch their face when they do not look up at the cameras.

have your assistant walk around the house, have them walk to the door, windows, simulate breaking into your car, ...

Also plan to place 1-2x cameras somewhere to cover the street - so you can help ID any car which maybe used.

It's a trade off between ease of installation, functionality, weatherproofing, and aesthetics. It's best to keep walls, doors, windows, etc out of frame. For this reason moving a camera as little as a few inches can have a big impact. The selfie stick is a good idea to test things, but keep in mind it probably has a wider field of view than most of your cameras.

I don't think you need to keep all your cameras 6-8 feet up. I would try keep them less than about 12' above the ground or deck. The higher the camera, the farther away it needs to look.

 

[tufan123]

Do you know where in the house you want all the alarm, camera, network, and other wiring to terminate?
Is the basement going to be finished or unfinished? With the deck, the lower cameras may need to be in different locations. You'd also want to avoid staring at the deck posts. If the basement is unfinished you could do all of the low backyard cameras yourself later.

If you decide you want some overview cameras up in the 2nd story soffits that's a location that can be accessed after the house is fully built. In addition to getting better images, lower cameras are a lot harder to install after the fact. Different builders have different sequences they like, but often low voltage stuff is done after the electrical, hvac, and plumbing. It's easier to avoid obstacles and less likely the cabling is damaged. The pictures I posted are just a rough idea of locations that would probably work well.

How much of the house is going to be brick and how much vinyl siding?



make sure you have adequate network wiring inside the house.

trade offs abound. You may have some wiggle room on certain things. For example it might be possible for you to supply the cable and supply them with bundled cable that has multiple cat6 or multilple cat6 and rg6 (this would be more interior then security). You'd have to make sure you don't hold up the schedule though. You might be able to save if they pull some extra cables but don't terminate them all. The downside of things they don't terminate including alarm wiring is that it generally won't be tested and you won't know until later that the plumber cut half the wires or that 3 of them have screws in the cable. Lots of other things worth including too like wiring for 7.2 surround sound, which should be relatively low cost compared to some things.

Are you going to install the cameras yourself later, provide them with the cameras, or have them provide the cameras?

Alarm prices seem a bit high. Wiring for motion detectors and glass breaks as well as multiple keypads should be part of your system. Try to specify that all wires are home run either to the panel or a closet for a zone expander. Napco is a bit of a curious choice, they probably like it because the 4 zone expander built into the keypad lets them be lazier. That makes it harder to switch to a different panel in the future. I don't know if you have any flexibility there.


It's a trade off between ease of installation, functionality, weatherproofing, and aesthetics. It's best to keep walls, doors, windows, etc out of frame. For this reason moving a camera as little as a few inches can have a big impact. The selfie stick is a good idea to test things, but keep in mind it probably has a wider field of view than most of your cameras.

I don't think you need to keep all your cameras 6-8 feet up. I would try keep them less than about 12' above the ground or deck. The higher the camera, the farther away it needs to look.

I am going to get cabling for access points, 7.2 in the family room, speakers in kitchen/breakfast nook, and study. All cabling will be terminated in the basement.

Should the security cabling be terminated in the basement as well? Or should it come out to a wall by the front door? I also paid for a pvc conduit to run from the basement to the attic. Network drops are 120 a pop for cat5e and 160 for cat6. When I meet him, I am going to ask for pricing to run Smurf tube to each bedroom upstairs as well as the study and the family room.

I am going to install the cameras later, once we close on the house.

 

[tangent]

Is the basement going to be finished or unfinished?
How much of the house is going to be brick and how much vinyl siding?

Run a network drop to each tv location and every bedroom / office. I doubt smurf runs will be any cheaper then running cable now.

 

[David87965]

anyone recommending cat5e for future proof should not post anymore lol. seriously

 

[tangent]

I prefer wall or floor mounted racks to structured media cabinets.

 

[tufan123]

Is the basement going to be finished or unfinished?
How much of the house is going to be brick and how much vinyl siding?

Run a network drop to each tv location and every bedroom / office. I doubt smurf runs will be any cheaper then running cable now.

The basement will be unfinished from the builder. However he is insulating the ceiling and sheetrocking it. The front will be brick other than the garage (he wanted 7k to do that area, we will do it after closing). The sides and back are vinyl.

 

[tangent]

anyone recommending cat5e for future proof should not post anymore lol. seriously

Are you trying to say cat6 or bust or wifi will take over the world? Remember there's plenty of cable for sale that claims to be Cat-6 that doesn't even meet Cat-5e standards let alone Cat-6 standards. I mean if your budget's infinite and you aren't married, you could always run fiber everywhere. I for one am not in the wifi will take over the world camp.

Even if it doesn't meet the Cat-6 spec, a big reason to choose Cat-6 is it's harder to screw up the actual cable run. The heavier wires and spline make it less likely someone pulls too hard on the cable or bends it too sharply. Cat-6 terminations otoh are more sensitive to screw ups.

 

[mat200]

For me I prefer using Cat6 for cable runs, and only Cat5e or specialize Cat6 w/o the thick spline ( more expensive stuff, but had some left over from a job ) where I have to put many cable into a 1/2" EMT conduit.

 

[tangent]

The basement will be unfinished from the builder. However he is insulating the ceiling and sheetrocking it. The front will be brick other than the garage (he wanted 7k to do that area, we will do it after closing). The sides and back are vinyl.

I'd put the alarm system and camera wiring in the same location in the basement with everything else.

I am going to get cabling for access points, 7.2 in the family room, speakers in kitchen/breakfast nook, and study. All cabling will be terminated in the basement.

Should the security cabling be terminated in the basement as well? Or should it come out to a wall by the front door? I also paid for a pvc conduit to run from the basement to the attic. Network drops are 120 a pop for cat5e and 160 for cat6. When I meet him, I am going to ask for pricing to run Smurf tube to each bedroom upstairs as well as the study and the family room.

I am going to install the cameras later, once we close on the house.

Definitely plan on Ethernet at all tv/media locations, preferably more than one cable.

If you needed to you could do most of the low stuff in the backyard yourself fairly easily as long as they aren't insulating the ceiling with spray foam. Really you could get cables to most of the main floor from the basement (drywall is cheap) fairly easily.

As far as installing the cameras later, you need to think about how that will all go together. Will they install junction boxes at each camera location and weatherproof covers temporarily? Will the wire just be tacked in place and you have to cut a hole in the right spot in the future to find it? Will you need a special box in certain locations? Keep in mind most security cameras aren't designed to mount to a typical junction box. There are some mounting brackets that can but that will be more obtrusive. A lower camera or intercom near the font door with a brick wall is more complicated, a box might have to be installed during the brick installation.

 

[mat200]

If they spray foam, consider conduit runs to some areas ( like the media center )

 

[David87965]

Are you trying to say cat6 or bust or wifi will take over the world? Remember there's plenty of cable for sale that claims to be Cat-6 that doesn't even meet Cat-5e standards let alone Cat-6 standards. I'm mean if your budget's infinite and you aren't married, you could always run fiber everywhere. I for one am not in the wifi will take over the world camp.

Even if it doesn't meet the Cat-6 spec, a big reason to choose Cat-6 is it's harder to screw up the actual cable run. The heavier wires and spline make it less likely someone pulls too hard on the cable or bends it too sharply. Cat-6 terminations otoh are more sensitive to screw ups.

No not bust the world and WiFi wont be doing that any time soon. A better topic to bring up is how could one person verify their cables are indeed Cat6? multi-meter or a cable tester? I would love to know actually even though my cat6 seems to be doing well for 4k resolution. Would be good for OP to know also even if he gets his supply through trusted source.

 

[tangent]

No not bust the world and WiFi wont be doing that any time soon. A better topic to bring up is how could one person verify their cables are indeed Cat6? multi-meter or a cable tester? I would love to know actually even though my cat6 seems to be doing well for 4k resolution. Would be good for OP to know also even if he gets his supply through trusted source.

testing takes very expensive equipment that generally costs more than $10k. Look up things like eye diagram and next if you're curious. There are some brands like belden that are kind of the gold standard. For a camera it really doesn't matter though beefier wires are nice for PoE, you're using well under 100mbps generally closer to 5mbps. It might matter for the links between multiple switches to to your nvr/pc. I don't want to get too off topic, there are other threads with more discussion. There's simply nobody who can enforce that cables that claim to be cat 6 actually are.

 

[atx2222]

I just had my cat 6 installed and have started putting up my cameras today. IR seems to be reflecting off my test dome so it seems like they dont work that well at night. Perfect during the day.

Im worried 0% about facial identification. My experience is it is almost useless even when you get a clear face as the police pretty much dont do anything. Instead Im focused on motion detection and immediate notification. I want to get pinged anytime someone is walking around my house so I can make the decision to call the police or not.

As far as securing your house, kick ins are because the default for strike plates are 1/2 inch screws. Get those replaced by 3 inch screws into the studs which will drastically slow down a kick in. You can do the same on the hinges.

Some thieves around here have been using car jacks to spread the door frame which renders all locks useless in under a minute. They mainly have been doing it on the garage man door which often isnt alarmed. We use large barn door style pulls plus a 2x4 slid inside to block the garage man door. Inside the house you will probably want to mount floor bars at the same time you install your flooring. They stick up from the floor to block the door and they are relatively unobtrusive even when deployed.

Windows are trickier, you have a nice setup where the slope minimizes ground floor windows. We planted blackberry bushes with thorns in front of all windows and our front door has no glass or sidelights. For example your front door sidelights scream break me.

Also you should think about where to permanently mount a safe to the slab and a camera to monitor the safe.

We have a left front corner, right front corner, ring video doorbell and entry camera.
One in the garage to watch entry from the main garage door and entry into the house.
One on the right side of the house and one on the rear watching the stairs up to the deck and the doors. dont have one on the left side of the house as it is very steep with no windows

 

[looney2ns]

I just had my cat 6 installed and have started putting up my cameras today. IR seems to be reflecting off my test dome so it seems like they dont work that well at night. Perfect during the day.

Im worried 0% about facial identification. My experience is it is almost useless even when you get a clear face as the police pretty much dont do anything. Instead Im focused on motion detection and immediate notification. I want to get pinged anytime someone is walking around my house so I can make the decision to call the police or not.

As far as securing your house, kick ins are because the default for strike plates are 1/2 inch screws. Get those replaced by 3 inch screws into the studs which will drastically slow down a kick in. You can do the same on the hinges.

Some thieves around here have been using car jacks to spread the door frame which renders all locks useless in under a minute. They mainly have been doing it on the garage man door which often isnt alarmed. We use large barn door style pulls plus a 2x4 slid inside to block the garage man door. Inside the house you will probably want to mount floor bars at the same time you install your flooring. They stick up from the floor to block the door and they are relatively unobtrusive even when deployed.

Windows are trickier, you have a nice setup where the slope minimizes ground floor windows. We planted blackberry bushes with thorns in front of all windows and our front door has no glass or sidelights. For example your front door sidelights scream break me.

Also you should think about where to permanently mount a safe to the slab and a camera to monitor the safe.

We have a left front corner, right front corner, ring video doorbell and entry camera.
One in the garage to watch entry from the main garage door and entry into the house.
One on the right side of the house and one on the rear watching the stairs up to the deck and the doors. dont have one on the left side of the house as it is very steep with no windows

Using Domes outdoors should be avoided for many reasons. Giving advice to not worry about ID'ing faces is wrong. We see face ID's from security videos solving crimes all....the....time.

 

[bigredfish]

Helped catch this one. We were able to match him to a burglary in another development the same night.

 

[CCTVCam]

What I would say regarding cabling is ensure they use a conduit with plenty of space inside and radius arc bends rather than 90 degree corners. Personally I prefer round conduit but that said, I've only ever seen round for surface mounting. That way if you ever need to replace or upgrade the cable, there's a good chance an electrician with pulling rods can pull the old cable out and the new cable back through. Saves a lot of expensive repairs. Nothing worse than square conduit with 90 degree bends = potentially abrasive edges and 90 degrees is a difficult to turn to get rods / pull tape around. With a large radius turn, rods tend to pass much more freely.