Outdoor cable life expectancy and impact on IR illumination

[gtj]

Hi,

I have a question with regards to outdoor ethernet cabling for PoE IP cameras.

I have a system up and running for over 5 years now and only lately noticed that the infra-red illumination of my cameras has become dimmer/more faint to a point that I've now started to think about re-inforcing night vision with external IR floodlights.

Is that change in IR Illumination related to the the aging LEDs of the cameras themselves or does it have to do with the cabling than can possibly degrade with the years?

I'm very interested to hear your thought on this.

 

[c hris527]

Hi,

I have a question with regards to outdoor ethernet cabling for PoE IP cameras.

I have a system up and running for over 5 years now and only lately noticed that the infra-red illumination of my cameras has become dimmer/more faint to a point that I've now started to think about re-inforcing night vision with external IR floodlights.

Is that change in IR Illumination related to the the aging LEDs of the cameras themselves or does it have to do with the cabling than can possibly degrade with the years?

I'm very interested to hear your thought on this.

Any type of lighting including LED's will degrade in time, Good test for you, run a different wire to it and see what happens and let us know.

 

[sebastiantombs]

As long as the conductors of the cable are intact ad not corroded cable is probably not the problem. I'd suspect degraded IR emitters first, but running one, temporary, cable will definitely prove "A" or "B".

 

[gtj]

Thanks for your input both of you guys.

It's probably the leds but I will run another cable to compare as suggested.

 

[Shockwave199]

The IR's are rated for x amount of hours. They'll start failing long before the camera ever will. What cameras do you have? Cameras have come a long way in five years. You might want to think about new cameras. But if you're using a five year old nvr too, that will likely need to be replaced for new as well to match up with new camera features.

 

[gtj]

I'm in the process of upgrading one of them and will see if that makes any difference.

These cameras are up and running 24/7 exposed to the elements for more than 5 years so I get what you're saying.

As far as nvr goes, I'm running a BI server so that's not a problem I'm hoping.

Thank you very much for your help.

 

[c_snyder]

I had my analog cameras up for about five years and just one night I noticed the IR didn't look that great. I tried it against an unused camera from the kit and the difference was huge. The IR leds had just worn out.

It happens gradually so you really don't notice it. I just happened to catch it during a power outage when the flood lights went out and the camera was running on IR exclusively.

 

[gtj]

I had my analog cameras up for about five years and just one night I noticed the IR didn't look that great. I tried it against an unused camera from the kit and the difference was huge. The IR leds had just worn out.

It happens gradually so you really don't notice it. I just happened to catch it during a power outage when the flood lights went out and the camera was running on IR exclusively.

That's probably what happened with mine. So it turns out 5 years is the number beyond it the IR leds start to degrade.

Anyhow I believe that's something that needs to be factored in when choosing hw for your setup. I mean I don't see a point paying crazy money for an ip camera if it's going to need to be replaced within 5 years max... I'm talking about models costing 600+.

 

[sebastiantombs]

You're costing me money! I never really thought about IR degradation and loss of illumination even though I'm aware of it from previous experiences. I have a 30 watt IR flood that lights up almost the entire backyard, It was originally mounted low, at about six feet, on a post for the deck rail but I have a need for better IR in a specific location so I set up a test rig and moved it. Yes, it improved where I wanted it, but not to the level it was at when it was new. It's about four years old now. So now I'll have to get a new one to mount, permanently, under the soffet.

 

[gtj]

You're costing me money! I never really thought about IR degradation and loss of illumination even though I'm aware of it from previous experiences. I have a 30 watt IR flood that lights up almost the entire backyard, It was originally mounted low, at about six feet, on a post for the deck rail but I have a need for better IR in a specific location so I set up a test rig and moved it. Yes, it improved where I wanted it, but not to the level it was at when it was new. It's about four years old now. So now I'll have to get a new one to mount, permanently, under the soffet.

At least you will only replace the floodlight and not your camera (yet)

Imagine someone who spent a fortune to buy 3-4 TOTL cameras to build their system... That's certainly not me and I wouldn't want to be in that position really! ;-)

 

[sebastiantombs]

That IR actually supplies enough IR for a total of four cameras at the moment so it's a really inexpensive option compared to adding more cameras to cover the entire yard. It's amazing what a decent low light camera can do IF it has enough IR available. Our backyard is almost a half acre.

 

[gtj]

That IR actually supplies enough IR for a total of four cameras at the moment so it's a really inexpensive option compared to adding more cameras to cover the entire yard. It's amazing what a decent low light camera can do IF it has enough IR available. Our backyard is almost a half acre.

I know what you mean. I once tried a floodlight behind a window and even this way, it made a lot of difference.

If you have already set up floodlights in various spots of interest, then all good. I mean you can change them every 4-5 years and don't mind about the embedded IR leds of your cameras. Running dedicated floodlights however is not always very easy. In my case I would have to rethink where all the cabling will go (drill new holes, buy separate PSUs etc)

 

[sebastiantombs]

Running cable is not a problem for me, spent years as a network installer. All of my IRs are powered remotely with transformer style supplies rather than using PoE splitters. When I installed th camera wiring I also installed a 16/2 CMR rated cable to provide 12VDC just for illuminators. It was well worth the effort and lets me spread the load over multiple supplies to avoid a single point of failure.

What still surprises me is that a single 30 watt IR can light up the whole backyard. I have six LED floods to light it with visible light. A total of 180 watts of visible lighting versus 30 watts for IR and low light cameras.

 

[LittleBrother]

I also bet it's the camera itself. I have a few now also about the same vintage. They are just so reliable (hikvisions) I've barely felt a need to replace. Their night time quality is awful but it was never that great to begin with.

 

[sebastiantombs]

The oldest Dahuas I have are as good today as when I bought them almost four years ago. Low light performance is still good and one of them, facing west, gets a face full of the setting sun everyday that isn't cloudy. The sensors today far outperform the old CCD sensors from years ago. I guess they have a finite life, but would bet it's well over ten years or more before degradation starts being a problem.

 

[gtj]

The oldest Dahuas I have are as good today as when I bought them almost four years ago. Low light performance is still good and one of them, facing west, gets a face full of the setting sun everyday that isn't cloudy. The sensors today far outperform the old CCD sensors from years ago. I guess they have a finite life, but would bet it's well over ten years or more before degradation starts being a problem.

I believe my cameras are Dahuas too. They are officially Amcrest but their mac addresses rather point me towards Dahua. They should be re-branded I reckon (?)

 

[gtj]

I also bet it's the camera itself. I have a few now also about the same vintage. They are just so reliable (hikvisions) I've barely felt a need to replace. Their night time quality is awful but it was never that great to begin with.

I looked at Hikvisions now that I needed to replace at least one of my units. Far too expensive. I believe they are the most expensive ones out there!

 

[gtj]

Running cable is not a problem for me, spent years as a network installer. All of my IRs are powered remotely with transformer style supplies rather than using PoE splitters. When I installed th camera wiring I also installed a 16/2 CMR rated cable to provide 12VDC just for illuminators. It was well worth the effort and lets me spread the load over multiple supplies to avoid a single point of failure.

What still surprises me is that a single 30 watt IR can light up the whole backyard. I have six LED floods to light it with visible light. A total of 180 watts of visible lighting versus 30 watts for IR and low light cameras.

I wish I owned the property but we're renting it. I would have probably made the wiring more permanent and tidier.

Yes, IR floodlights look like a viable and efficient solution. It might even worth trying switching off camera IRs completely and rely solely on the floodlights for night vision.

 

[samplenhold]

Has anyone tried the Axton Nano PoE IR illuminators? I am thinking that I may need more IR for one of my LPR cams. You can get these with different patterns.

 

[sebastiantombs]

I'm using the low priced spread, CMVision. I'm goint to give the 50 watt a try this time, but the 30 watt does get out to at least 150 feet. You might want to give one a try if you've got other cameras out there that are running in IR at night.