Nothing works

[samplenhold]

but I removed the HIKVision PTZ camera. That's a real shame, since it is 30X and was to be my "good" camera.

Why did you remove that cam? You never said why. It should work just fine along side of the Dahua cams, especially if you use BI.

Running BI on a laptop will burn that machine out in no time.

I decided to build my machine rather than buy a used one on online. But that is just me. It's a hobby for me. Spent way more than most I am sure, but I have full control.

As far as a PTZ used for zooming in to ID someone, @bigredfish has a set up like that and has posted good video of it working. I just can't put my fingers on a link. Maybe he can link something in an answer.

 

[jshimota01]

Getting in line to flame the poster - besides all the optimization- I've always found the build IN vs build OUT paradigm to work better for this kind of thing. Knowing the stream rates, compression types and data volume sets a number of factors - how much data to manage, how fast the storage has to respond and it's capacity. Determining a machine to handle that inbound content really is a subjective thing. Sure you can do the math but really your getting excited over the idea of spending 800 vs 1200 or some such. OVERKILL! BABY! A person can pick up a used i7-9000 on a board with ram from Ebay for $340. then build a machine around it. Couple 1TB SSD's and a NVME for boot drive and your done. viola.

 

[donminter]

Why did you remove that cam? You never said why. It should work just fine along side of the Dahua cams, especially if you use BI.

When I had that camera set up, it would run fine for maybe 10 to 15 seconds. After that time, it would start to respond very, very slowly. All of the other cameras would also start to respond extremely slowly. Eventually, the PTZ would lose connection. When it reconnected, it would just rotate slowly in circles. The other three cameras would never recover fast "reporting" of what was in their field of view. I checked CPU usage on the laptop, and it was over 100%. I had not tweaked BI as wittaj has suggested, in fact, the tweaks I made likely made things worse. I'll set up BI with the suggestions made, then I'll see about reconnecting the PTZ afterwards. I certainly would like to use it, if possible.

If you can get your hands on an Hp Elitedesk g3 or g4 800 model in SFF ( Small Form Factor), They are set up nicely to add the stuff you want to run BI.
like this. I see alot fo guys running bunches of Cameras on this box.

I purchased the computer you had listed in your second post, as it was the last one out of over 40 sold. I've done ebay too long to wait in such a situation. Thank you to everyone who responded so quickly to my plea (and who talked me out of over $1000 for a new laptop).

 

[jshimota01]

And a 'why I outta' to the the guy who posted PTZ's are never looking the right way. um... While checking for intruders in my neighbors bedroom with my 30x digital... I can count hairs. I love having pTZ my friend! Now if we could just get UV light to work > 100m... my quarter mile vision capability is wasted...

 

[donminter]

Getting in line to flame the poster...

Hey, as long as I get the information, I can handle a few veiled or not-so-veiled insults. If the cameras work reasonably well when done, then everything came out well in the end. I also have an internet-troll filter on my computer. Not one person who has made internet threats has ever made it through my cable connection to whack me upside the head, no matter how dearly they wanted to.

I appreciate your suggestion, but I'm not building another computer. When I was in my 30s, I'd save a few dollars and get one done "my way." I'm well beyond my 30s now, and I understand why some people take their cars to mechanics for oil changes and tune ups, rather than doing it themselves. I can always make more money. I can't make more time.

 

[wittaj]

So the next question is are your cameras going through the router? Losing connection and responding slowly is usually traced back to that.

Cameras should be completely isolated from the internet and camera feeds should not pass thru the router as they are inefficient at passing that constant data demands of these types of cameras. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to use it through a wifi router.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes. Now do the same with your camera and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

Most consumer grade wifi routers are not designed to pass the constant video stream data of cameras, and since they do not buffer, you get these issues.

You should connect your cameras all to the same switch. At a minimum have the cameras and BI computer connect to the same switch.

Or do as most of us have and dual NIC your computer - all the cameras on one NIC and the internet on the other other NIC. That way zero camera traffic is passing through your home network to get to the computer.

That coupled with following all the optimizations can make an older machine perform very well.

And yes, with BI you can use fixed cams as spotter cams to make sure the PTZ is always facing the right way.

And also make sure you are not going more than 15FPS as anything faster is killing bandwidth and storage.

 

[jshimota01]

"Using fixed cams as spotters"... wow interesting. So BI trigger events? hmmm.... have to think about that. In the meantime, does anyone here actually use motion following? Still too pricey for non-commerical/residential? I saw one at Sec conference last year and it was ...uuumazing! Sorry - I keep thinking I'm on Reddit or Discord and start vomiting verbal diarrhea... (wait. thats a mixed metaphor). you get the point. signing off.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Why does it sound to me like that PTZ has an IP address conflict? Just a guess, but that would explain the behavior being seen.

 

[donminter]

So the next question is are your cameras going through the router? Losing connection and responding slowly is usually traced back to that.

Cameras should be completely isolated from the internet and camera feeds should not pass thru the router as they are inefficient at passing that constant data demands of these types of cameras. And the data demands go up with motion and then you lose signal. A lost packet and it has to resend. It can bring the whole network down if trying to use it through a wifi router.

Unlike Netflix and other streaming services that buffer a movie, these cameras do not buffer up part of the video, so drop outs are frequent. You would be amazed how much streaming services buffer - don't believe me, start watching something and unplug your router and watch how much longer you can watch NetFlix before it freezes. Now do the same with your camera and it is fairly instantaneous (within the latency of the stream itself)...

Most consumer grade wifi routers are not designed to pass the constant video stream data of cameras, and since they do not buffer, you get these issues.

You should connect your cameras all to the same switch. At a minimum have the cameras and BI computer connect to the same switch.

Or do as most of us have and dual NIC your computer - all the cameras on one NIC and the internet on the other other NIC. That way zero camera traffic is passing through your home network to get to the computer.

That coupled with following all the optimizations can make an older machine perform very well.

And yes, with BI you can use fixed cams as spotter cams to make sure the PTZ is always facing the right way.

And also make sure you are not going more than 15FPS as anything faster is killing bandwidth and storage.

Router is 192.168.1.1. BI computer and cameras are all 192.168.0.NN. I cannot connect to the same switch, as the PTZ is high wattage. I go from the "main switch" where all the other cameras are connected, to the "high wattage switch," and from there to a POE splitter, as the other camera requires power to its 12V connector. It works fine on its own, but once you add the other cameras, it slows, then stops, and then loses connection. CPU usage is through the roof at that time.

I had already set frame rate to 10 fps trying to get things working. It really had no effect. I had set one of the cams originally to PAL, and the others to NTSC, but once I changed the frame rate, I figure that changed, too, but I can go back and reset all of the cameras to NTSC or PAL, if that might make a difference.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'll revisit this if adjusting BI doesn't show any promise.

 

[donminter]

Why does it sound to me like that PTZ has an IP address conflict? Just a guess, but that would explain the behavior being seen.

I don't think this is the problem. Computer is ...0.100; PTZ is ...0.99; Cam 1 is ...0.10; Cam 2 is ...0.11; Cam 3 is ...0.12. I think I set name server to ...0.200. Masking is the typical 255.255.255.0. The PTZ runs as ONVIF, as it isn't "recognized" by BI. I forget where I saw it was HikVision, but I wouldn't even know that trade name otherwise. It works fine when it's online by itself... at least for an hour or so. I never tested it longer than that.

I'm really thinking it is my BI settings that are the major culprit. I'll be playing with those once I return the granddaughter to the kids this evening. Worst case, I lose the PTZ, which is a fairly large monetary loss, but not enough to make me homeless. EmpireTechAndy will profit therefrom, anyway, if I do decide to get another PTZ.

Here's another question: I have a 256GB thumb drive. What are the opinions of using one of these for video storage? I'm afraid it will get too hot, but then again, the internal HDD/SSDD also gets pretty hot, I would imagine.

 

[sebastiantombs]

It could also be the power load on the PoE switch. Run a rough calculation based on how many cameras are running simultaneously. I kind of doubt it from what you've said, but it could happen or could be a problem with the PoE switch, itself. At night, my load for ~20 cameras is only around 120 watts and that's split between two switches, each capable of 120 watts.

In terms of an SD card, you want one made for video surveillance, generally. The lower end ones won't hold up very long because they are constantly written to, assuming you're going to be recoding continuously.

 

[wittaj]

Something isn't right with your power on the POE or something else network related. Did you ever say which generation your computer is?

I have way more cameras than 4 and more than 1 PTZ and my 4th generation CPU hums along with BI at sub 20% CPU.

Thumb drives and USB drives are poor choices for surveillance - they generally cannot keep up. I tested it once and it failed miserably. Get a surveillance rated HDD like a WD purple and call it good.

 

[wittaj]

"Using fixed cams as spotters"... wow interesting. So BI trigger events? hmmm.... have to think about that. In the meantime, does anyone here actually use motion following? Still too pricey for non-commerical/residential? I saw one at Sec conference last year and it was ...uuumazing! Sorry - I keep thinking I'm on Reddit or Discord and start vomiting verbal diarrhea... (wait. thats a mixed metaphor). you get the point. signing off.

Many of us here have autotracking PTZ cameras. And several have more than one LOL.

Buy this autotracking PTZ from @EMPIRETECANDY here (can only buy from him because Dahua removed autotracking from this PTZ). Best one around sub $400.

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-SD49225XA-HNR-Starlight-Network-Tracking/dp/B081RJJQT4/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1624931615&redirect=true&s=merchant-items&sr=1-9

And then you use fixed cams to direct the PTZ where to look. So if you have your PTZ normally looking to the left and someone approaches from the right, the spotter cam calls up the preset for the PTZ to look right.

Or the PTZ is tracking someone across the street 4 properties away and someone comes up your driveway, the spotter cam spins it back to the driveway.

Spotter cams are an incredible tool in the toolbox to improve the PTZ and help nudge it to be looking where it needs to be.

 

[donminter]

Buy this autotracking PTZ from @EMPIRETECANDY here (can only buy from him because Dahua removed autotracking from this PTZ). Best one around sub $400.

https://www.amazon.com/Loryta-SD49225XA-HNR-Starlight-Network-Tracking/dp/B081RJJQT4/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&m=A329YQ83EBQGJF&marketplaceID=ATVPDKIKX0DER&qid=1624931615&redirect=true&s=merchant-items&sr=1-9

Can you get a ceiling mount for this? I need to hang it from my soffit if at all possible.

 

[Flintstone61]

yes ceiling mount available. Saw it on another thread.

 

[donminter]

Something isn't right with your power on the POE or something else network related. Did you ever say which generation your computer is?
...
Get a surveillance rated HDD like a WD purple

I bought the computer in 2014 because the one it replaced wasn't able to play a bluray without pausing/skipping. (I travel a LOT.) I told the kluge-makers what I needed, and they assured me it would work. It did.

While setting up the cameras, I once checked it, seeing it was an i5, dual core at 2.1 Ghz. I did not look at its part number. Having since educated myself somewhat on processors, I realize that's not enough for pinning it down... but I will say the computer was originally windows 8, if that helps indicate its true age.

To the WD, I refuse to get anything WD due to past experience. I have had only three catastrophic drive failures, and every one was a WD. I will find a Samsung equivalent, as I have found their drives to be reliable.

The POE is a smart switch capable of up to 240W over 16 channels. It only provides POE where needed, and right now, I have only the 3 cameras and a WAP vying for power. That's 120W max, so there shouldn't be a problem there. I set up the PTZ with both a high-power POE and splitter as I described earlier, as well as using the main switch and a direct power supply. In both cases, it eventually dropped, so I just put it aside to get the other 3 working. I will play with it again once I do the BI tweaks mentioned earlier in this thread.

 

[donminter]

yes ceiling mount available. Saw it on another thread.

The PFA111? EmpireTechAndy sells it.

 

[wittaj]

The PFA111? EmpireTechAndy sells it.

Yes, send him a DM to purchase your cameras directly from him and save some money usually and he can sell you whatever parts are not showing up on his Amazon store.

Just send him a DM telling him you want the 49225 PTZ and a ceiling mount and he will take care of it!

 

[c hris527]

i am not calling you a rookie, but u must be using a cross over cable, else it will never work.

HMMM I do know, as of around 2014 or 15 all of the Dahua cams I logged into for setup were auto sensing, no need for a crossover anymore. That would be about a few hundred or so.

 

[jshimota01]

I don't think this is the problem. Computer is ...0.100; PTZ is ...0.99; Cam 1 is ...0.10; Cam 2 is ...0.11; Cam 3 is ...0.12. I think I set name server to ...0.200. Masking is the typical 255.255.255.0. The PTZ runs as ONVIF, as it isn't "recognized" by BI. I forget where I saw it was HikVision, but I wouldn't even know that trade name otherwise. It works fine when it's online by itself... at least for an hour or so. I never tested it longer than that.

I'm really thinking it is my BI settings that are the major culprit. I'll be playing with those once I return the granddaughter to the kids this evening. Worst case, I lose the PTZ, which is a fairly large monetary loss, but not enough to make me homeless. EmpireTechAndy will profit therefrom, anyway, if I do decide to get another PTZ.

Here's another question: I have a 256GB thumb drive. What are the opinions of using one of these for video storage? I'm afraid it will get too hot, but then again, the internal HDD/SSDD also gets pretty hot, I would imagine.

wow - this seems like you're going down a hole to me. My gut says turn everything off - start a sniffer like Dude and check every IP. the PTZ is ssdp only? never heard of that. it's got an IP. Isolate and verify. Is it possible you've TWO dhcp servers? your ISP router and an server or firewall also? I've seen that corrupt and confuse IP nets. Are they Manually assigned or dhcp anyway? are you using VLans so you can seperate and debug? Look for device conflicts at .20 and .6 - those are the defaults from any china made camera that are static set. Also, do you have an IP addr list in the modem or router you can compare against to make sure no conflicts? Are your router/modems all set to the proper subnet masks so no confusion / problems there? What about all the other IP devices in your net... you've got a network map to work from of some sort - even accounting for wireless AP's and whatever they hand out?
If you're right about all the IP stuff, what are you using to talk to each camera directly? ODM? IPCOCX? And the throughput on a thumbdrive - okay. now you're just being funny. even 3.1 USB is a massive bottleneck - you push data through TWO controllers, + the NIC... it's a horrible thought and I hope we're just talking theoretically here ... but didn't you say this was an older machine for a server? likely USB 2 or SS?. Don't even think it! USB is single-entrant - ie; can't do multiple writes so serialized data streams start buffering then choking as soon as you get a few MB in the pipe...
What's your SNMP say from your switch about the port traffic? what's the load? I assume Gigabit? Even though most cams are 100MB, a single ether goes into saturation at 66% with CsMA/CD - so with multiplex streams coming into to the storage space you need that pipe running right - and it will back up at the NIC if it can't write fast enough. Then there is the h.264 vs h.265 problem for hi DP streams.... There is so much going on here.... If I'm way off target here, please put me back on track - I get excited easily when there are problems I love to fix! Don't throw out that PTZ just yet.