PTZ5A4K-25X and IPC-Color4K-T180 settings...

[Sonnie]

The first pic is from the 25X. What settings would cause this white out of an individual... obviously no way to identify anyone that looks like this.

The second pic is from the T180. He is about 30' from the camera, and I've zoomed it in. Curious what settings would improve ability to identify.

 

[wittaj]

The PTZ is infrared washout. You need faster shutter and/or zoom priority that adjusts the IR based on zoom.

Regarding the T180, that is as good as you will get at 30 feet out. That is not a camera to IDENTIFY at 30 feet out. It makes a great overview camera, but digital zoom only works in the movies.

If you want identify at 30 feet out you need a camera with more optical zoom.

 

[Revo2Maxx]

Do you happen to have a second picture of the person by the Truck? While you mention that it is a 25x zoom camera you don't mention brand or the current zoom factor of the camera..

Let me just say it like this, I have a 20x zoom 2mp camera from 2016 that is better in many ways then a 20x zoom 5mp from 2022 might have been last year I forget, Anyway in some ways it is also better then my 4mp 25x zoom all 3 from different brands and one is a Budget POS that if I had paid what either of the other 2 others did new I would have returned it lol. But price was right and bought 2 gifted one away to someone that didn't have a PTZ after warning him about some quality issues. Someone not owning a quality PTZ camera wouldn't notice some color issues and other things that I notice because of better quality cameras that I own..
Anyway I am asking about another picture maybe from another camera unless that is a picture of you. because it almost looks like they could be wearing a IR blaster hat..

Also looking at the drivers side glass if it is a video might be able to play back frame by frame and see if you can make out the person. Might not be able to use in Court unless you can prove that they were using something to make it so your camera couldn't seem them.. If it was you and your just asking about this or that. Need more info about the camera you are using and what zoom factor you were using. If you are using digital zoom after the fact nice camera seeing the items in the Truck were not blurry..

Edit; Ok sorry didn't read the title. That camera is an 8mp Dahua of some sort if real PTZ5A4K-25X 8MP 1/1.8" CMOS Auto Tracking 3.0 25x Starlight IR Network PTZ Camera and in no way should have that look unless there is some type of High power IR or white light and or that isn't you and they are using some sort of IR blaster.. That camera is 100 times better then any 8mp I own. even if I own one that claims to be 8mp but really 4 2mp sensors lol. Sensor size is no where as nice as your camera and there should be no normal issue like that with the camera running stock factory settings.. If you made changes I would default the camera and try again at night my 25x 4mp don't have that issue unless I hit it with a IR blaster.. also adding 2 pictures and yes I know my 2mp is an hour off lol

 

[Revo2Maxx]

Also so you know that camera as 1 thing that not all PTZ cameras have.. IT seems that you have an adjustable aperture so while it does have a good sensor of 1/1.8' it has an F-stop of 1.6 to 4.0 This means the zoomed in point has f4.0 where the max zoomed out will have f1.6 in case you were not aware of this fact.. So if your camera is zoomed in at 25x the amount of light able to hit the sensor is less and can cause blow out as in your picture. I would as I said before default the camera settings in the image area back to default and see if that helps at all. If that picture isn't of you, again do you happen to have another camera view of the person to maybe see if they are using some type of IR blaster?

 

[Sonnie]

That person was my brother. What was odd is that when I tested it by walking around out there, it did not do this... it looked pretty good with the settings I had. I'm not sure what triggered this particular instance.

I have Illuminator set to Auto, so I changed it to Zoom Priority, and I'll see how that works tonight.

I started with the standard recommended settings shown in a couple of threads here in the forum, but couldn't see anything. After looking around in the forum, another member had some vastly different settings for this camera which I tried, but still had to adjust from those to come up with the following.

 

[bigredfish]

I would think those settings would produce blur in all but the slowest moving objects

On the whiteout image, it looks like the Auto Illuminator setting didn’t compensate for the near target, we used to call this SmartIR and various Dahua models are better/worse in adjusting quickly or not at all.

What are your Illuminator setting choices? Is there a Compensation setting along with “Auto” that you didn’t have turned on?

 

[Sonnie]

Manual, Auto, and Zoom Priority.

Auto has no options.

 

[Sonnie]

Looks like I'll need to make some other adjustments... still getting blur and wash out with Zoom Priority and the current settings.

 

[wittaj]

When you crop an image, it essentially creates a digital zoom situation, so we can't accurately assess it.

But if post 5 are your settings, NR is WAY TOO HIGH. Need to keep as low as possible and probably not much higher than 40.

Same with gain and iris - not higher than 50.

You could probably go faster on shutter as well, with the caveat below.

What is the goal of this PTZ - near or far identify captures?

A PTZ has a wider range of field of views than a fixed camera - you may get a within 15 feet field of view and a 200+feet field of view.

As such sometimes a compromise is needed. Your image is up close. As such it doesn't need as much IR and is currently getting blasted.

But if distance is a concern, what does the image look like 200 feet out?

Maybe you have to sacrifice some near camera washout in order to not be too dark 200 feet out.

But if all you care about is close by, then go to IR manual and have someone walk around out there while you manually set the IR level low. But then recognize it won't be enough IR 200 feet out.

You should have other cameras close for an image of someone by your vehicles.

 

[Sonnie]

I'll adjust the settings tonight and see what I can come up with.

This particular camera will mainly be operating within about a 50ft range.

The other one just like it, will be reaching out to about 125ft.

Day settings on both seem to be fine for pretty much all areas... but night indeed needs some adjustments.

 

[wittaj]

Yeah with enough light during the day it isn't an issue.

Without light is where the issues are.

You may be better off to go to manual IR and test with a person at different areas and find that balance for this camera between close up and 50 feet.

 

[steve1225]

Same with gain and iris - not higher than 50.

Why iris should be not higher than 50 at night???
in this ptz aperture starts at f1.6 and are closing much more with zoom...
why close lens more??? it's enough to have nice deep depth-of-field..

if this 50 settings means half closed iris then we are losing 75% of light (0.5 ^ 2)..

 

[wittaj]

Why iris should be not higher than 50 at night???
in this ptz aperture starts at f1.6 and are closing much more with zoom...
why close lens more??? it's enough to have nice deep depth-of-field..

if this 50 settings means half closed iris then we are losing 75% of light (0.5 ^ 2)..

It's just a general rule of thumb, especially if he is washed out then it is "too open".

Default setting is 50 and that is good enough for most situations.

Also remember it is a digital iris so the effects on this type of camera are much different than a "real" camera. Too high of an iris with a security cam can introduce noise in my experience based on how the iris is "opened" as it is digital processing.

 

[bigredfish]

Looks like I'll need to make some other adjustments... still getting blur and wash out with Zoom Priority and the current settings.

View attachment 200869

View attachment 200868

You need to get in the habit of posting full resolution stills and video. Export from the NVR or use SmartPSS. Cropping and digital zoom are a mess of digital artifacts.

As mentioned your blur isnt from the IR, its from Exposure and DNR.
Set IR back to Auto
Never use more than 50 DNR, less if possible, the closer you can stay to 40 the better
Shutter/Exposure. You need 1/120 or 0-8.33 to think about minimizing blur at night, for me those are bare minimums. Anything slower (ie higher number) will cause what you see there

 

[Sonnie]

Can't upload videos here... get the Oops! We ran into some problems.

Here are a couple of videos for the two 25X cameras with the below settings: Index of /PTZ-25X

 

[EMPIRETECANDY]

How tall the PTZ camera install? Looks like too low. PTZ better at 5-6m higher, it has very strong IR so if too nearby will be a problem.
T180 as a 180 degrees camera, wider =less further details.

 

[Sonnie]

I'm not sure I have a lot of options short of installing a pole somewhere. I want to keep an eye on the storage buildings and shop... as well as the driveway coming into the house.

I ordered the PTZ 4MP 25X to mount the metal barn and look back at the house (yellow circle). It will be about 12-13ft up (around 3m). Maybe I shouldn't have been buying PTZ cameras, but thought they would be better at zooming in and tracking individuals, especially during the day. Get them up too high and they can't see underneath carports, etc.



The below image shows what I'm looking back at from the shop... yellow circles show current PTZ cameras. I could move the one at the end of the carport up to the very top of the facia ridge. It might be able to see the other carport/storage building door if mounted up that high where it can see past the roof edge.

Not sure what could be done with the other PTZ mounted lower, unless I move it on up to the highest ridge on the house to keep an eye the back a little farther over towards the carport/shop, and it could see more of the driveway with vehicles coming in. I could use the camera at the front of the house as a spotter camera.

 

[bigredfish]

On those 2 samples I think you're fighting a couple of things

1- 4k/8MP camera on a too small sensor. Dont buy any more 4K PTZs
Dahua sells a bunch of crap PTZs with inadequate sensors. The only ones from their entire catalog I'd be interested in are the 4MP/ 1/1.8 sensor models.
So Basically I'm saying of the 100 or so PTZ models, I'd only buy about 5-6 of them

This one out of the entire Wizsense line

SD5A425XA-HNR - Dahua International

SD5A425XA-HNR,DH-SD5A425XA-HNR

www.dahuasecurity.com

The Wizmind 8 series in 4MP with the 1/1.8 sensor only

WizMind Series - Dahua International

WizMind Series

www.dahuasecurity.com

This one looks interesting out of all of their X-Spans offerings

SDT8C442-4P-GA-APV-0280 - Dahua International

SDT8C442-4P-GA-APV-0280

www.dahuasecurity.com

2- The IR bounce from under the carport. Yes agree with your move choices

3- Light- as you flood that zone with white light floods or IR from adding external emitters things will get easier

4- Time tweeking settings
I probably have 20-40 hours in each PTZ just messing with image settings. It cant be done in a single evening (daytime is easy)
What you have in those two samples is a start. No real motion blur, so thats good. Now its fine tuning to get rid of as much of the noise "sparklies" as possible
You have to play with each control one at a time.
Leave Exposure alone for now, play with Gain, Iris, Exp Comp, and Sharpness and Gamma on the image controls.
Go ahead and run 50 on both DNR as its not going to get a lot better or worse beyond that

5- Over reliance on PTZs vs zoomed fixed cameras
I understand the allure of PTZs but what most dont understand is that once you zoom the light sensitivity and therefore image quality goes to shit. The more you zoom, the less efficient the camera with respect to light pickup. Consider 5442 Z4's for choke points such as 2-3 for instance beside each other at that side carport location covering effectively 180 degrees with better image quality.

 

[wittaj]

+1 above. A PTZ at night will typically have a wide range of lighting conditions across the various field of views as it tracks and having the ideal MP/sensor ratio we talk about frequently is even more important for a PTZ.

 

[Ri22o]

Short answer is you are trying to do too much with one camera.