Cameras And Fields Of View For IP POE Home Security System

[Sichuan]

I need some assistance with cameras and angles of view. I've spent weeks researching different issues such as frame rates, resolutions, megapixels, data flow rates and angles of view and I'm still not competent enough to arrive at certain conclusions. I'll be using an 18 port/18 channel IP POE NVR. I'll be connecting each camera to an individual port on the NVR with Cat6a cable. The NVR and all the IP POE cameras will be Hikvision USA products.

Here's where I'm at now: I've designed it as a 13 camera system, using 11 turrets and two bullets but I'm certain I can lower that to nine or ten cameras if I select the proper cameras with the proper fields of view.

North Side Of House Photo 03: You will notice that the part of the house to the right of the front entry door extends out four feet. North Side Of House Photo 04: The front yard is 115 feet wide and 60 feet to the street. Currently, I have configured three turrets and one bullet to cover the entire yard, the front windows and the front entry door. Two of the turrets, model DS-2CD2332-I-2.8MM 3MP (86 degree angle of view) would be mounted on the soffits angled straight ahead in such a way that I can view the entire front yard using these two turrets. The third turret, model DS-2CD2332-I-12MM 3MP (20.6 degree angle of view) would be mounted above the front entry door for identification of anyone at the door or approaching the door. You will notice the large Oak tree in North Side Of House Photo 04. My intent was to remove the lower branches and install a bullet camera, model DS-2CD2232-I5-6MM 3MP (25 ft. wide view) on this tree to cover all five of the windows. The front entry door cannot be seen from the tree.

North Side Of House Photo 03:

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/...m/North Side Of House Photo 03 Entry Door.jpg

North Side Of House Photo 04:

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/...urity System/North Side Of House Photo 04.jpg

What I'm asking is: Instead of using the configuration I've just mentioned can I mount a turret on the left corner soffit, angled toward the street sign/stop sign in such a way that I can cover the two bedroom windows on the left side of the house, the entry door and the right side of the front yard, and then mount a turret on the right corner soffit, angled toward the left side of the front yard, in such a way that I can cover the three living room windows on the right side of the house and the left side of the front yard? I assume that I would use the two DS-2CD2332-I-2.8MM 3MP turrets(86 degree angle of view). This would reduce the number of cameras I need from four to two, eliminating the turret over the entry door and the bullet on the tree.

South Side Of House Photo 01: This is the back yard. It ends at the yellow gas line stake. The yard is 125 feet long and 115 feet wide. I want camera coverage for the entire yard. Currently, I have configured two DS-2CD2332-I-2.8MM 3MP (86 degree angle of view) turrets to be mounted on the soffits in such a way as to cover the entire back yard. I think these two turrets will cover it, although I may need three of them. I don't know. I had originally wanted to mount a bullet on one of the trees shown in this photo, the tree facing the garage windows, but I've eliminated that one. South Side Of House Photo 02: This is a closeup photo of the back of the house. The two evergreen trees have been removed. I want to cover the garage man door, the patio sliding doors and the two windows. I'm going to use a turret, model DS-2CD2332-I-2.8MM 3MP (86 degree angle of view), for this coverage. I can mount it on the soffit above the tall evergreen tree or I can mount it on the soffit above the tree with the weeping branches. I think it would be better to mount it above the tree with the weeping branches. Will this give me a wide enough angle of view to capture the man door, the patio sliding doors and the two windows?

South Side Of House Photo 01:

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/...urity System/South Side Of House Photo 01.jpg

South Side Of House Photo 02:

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/...rity System/South Side Of House Photo 02.jpg

West Side Of House Photo 02: The west side of the house is 50 feet long and it's 35 feet from the side of the house to the street. The two evergreen trees on the sides of the driveway have been removed. I have configured two turret cameras to cover the driveway, the window and the side yard, both turrets being model DS-2CD2332-I-4MM 3MP (70 degree angle of view), the two turrets located on the soffit at each corner facing the opposite corners, the one on the northwest corner facing southwest and the one on the southwest corner facing northwest. I could replace these 4MM turrets with 2.8MM turrets if you think they would give me better angles of view. Are the 4MM turrets sufficient or do you think I should switch them for 2.8MM turrets?

West Side Of House Photo 02:

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/...curity System/West Side Of House Photo 02.jpg

East Side Of House Photos 01 and 02: I have configured two turret cameras to cover this side of my property, model DS-2CD2332-I-4MM 3MP (70 degree angle of view). They will be mounted on the soffit corners facing the opposite direction, the northeast corner camera facing southeast and the southeast camera facing northeast. I don't care if the field of view covers part of the neighbor's property. I think I'll leave this as is because I don't think I can get good coverage using only one camera. In addition, I can cover parts of the front and back yards that may be missed by the the turrets covering my front and back yards.

East Side Of House Photo 01:

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/...curity System/East Side Of House Photo 01.jpg

East Side Of House Photo 02:

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/...curity System/East Side Of House Photo 02.jpg

South Side Dining Room Photos 01 and 02: These photos were taken with a cell phone so they're not indicative of what a turret camera will show. Photo number two was taken from the upper corner shown in photo number one. I've configured a model DS-2CD2332-I-4MM 3MP (70 degree angle of view) for this coverage. It will cover the kitchen, part of the south side dining room, part of the west side dining room and some of the front entry door. This coverage will allow me to see anyone coming in through the garage entry door into the kitchen, the front entry door and possibly the patio sliding door entry. These are the only three entries into the house. I think if I switch to a model DS-2CD2332-I-2.8MM 3MP (86 degree angle of view) and locate it on the wall or ceiling above the hutch it will give me more coverage of the patio sliding door.

South Side Dining Room Photo 01:

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/...ty System/South Side Dining Room Photo 01.jpg

South Side Dining Room Photo 02:

http://i681.photobucket.com/albums/...ty System/South Side Dining Room Photo 02.jpg

I'm using turrets instead of domes because they provide a better and more uniform IR light and I eliminate dome reflectionfrom the sun and inside lights. I'll be using the model DS-9616NI-ST-4TB IP POE NVR because it produces a 1080p display for all the cameras.

I'm looking for any suggestions that would either validate my conclusions or improve my choice of cameras and their locations. Thank you in advance for your time and any assistance provided.

 

[klasipca]

If you care about warranty and support and buying it from reliable source your choices probably the best you can get

If you want something much better in terms of Image Quality and features and willing to take a risk due to shipping from China:

For outdoors, I would use Huisun Mini PTZ v2 everywhere (I've have done that successfully for past half a year now) It offers superior night IQ to what your choices above offer, you don't need to deal with figuring out best camera locations and which lens to get and it's just plain fun to use. Price wise it will be the same as what you would pay for English version of the cams that you are considering. Most importantly it uses Hikvision protocols and works with its NVRs.

For indoors, your choices are ok, but there are better option Longse S500 could work indoors/outdoors. They have bunch of other cams too which I will be testing out for indoors and posting soon.

 

[Sichuan]

If you care about warranty and support and buying it from reliable source your choices probably the best you can get

If you want something much better in terms of Image Quality and features and willing to take a risk due to shipping from China:

For outdoors, I would use Huisun Mini PTZ v2 everywhere (I've have done that successfully for past half a year now) It offers superior night IQ to what your choices above offer, you don't need to deal with figuring out best camera locations and which lens to get and it's just plain fun to use. Price wise it will be the same as what you would pay for English version of the cams that you are considering. Most importantly it uses Hikvision protocols and works with its NVRs.

For indoors, your choices are ok, but there are better option Longse S500 could work indoors/outdoors. They have bunch of other cams too which I will be testing out for indoors and posting soon.

Thank you, klasipca. I appreciate your prompt reply. Yes, I care very much about warranty/repair and support. That's why I'll be buying from a Hikvision authorized seller. There are three authorized sellers I'm dealing with and I'll choose whichever one gives me the best price. These sellers were recommended to me by the corporate sales office of Hikvision USA. I imagine I'll have between three and four thousand dollars in the system when I'm done purchasing all the cameras, cable and connectors I need but the safety of my family is more important than the money I spend on this equipment. I could, of course, purchase this Hikvision equipment from unauthorized U.S. sellers online or by ordering directly from Ali Express for half the price but that would give me equipment with no warranty/repair service and firmware updates in Chinese Mandarin. I buy many things directly from Chinese companies and I've never really had any problems with shipping. At the most it usually takes only ten to fourteen days to receive my orders and the shipping charges aren't that much. Then again, I could save even more money by buying this equipment in China using RMB. My wife and stepson are from Chongqing, China and I travel to China every year for a few months at a time. I live in Ohio but we also have homes in Yongchuan and Chongqing near her family and relatives. Both companies offer good warranties for the Chinese market but I would still be left with no support here in Ohio. If I needed support for these Chinese market cameras or the NVR I could try to take them back to China but I doubt very seriously that I could get the equipment through Customs in the U.S. and China. Both countries are very touchy when it comes to electronic equipment going through Customs. I use Bank of China and Agricultural Bank of China when I'm there so I never have any problems converting U.S. dollars to RMB.

I tried to do a little research on Huisun but found mostly Asian and Russian websites associated with Huisun cameras. I checked online for information on Longse and found nothing. I can't read Traditional or Simplified Chinese characters so I wouldn't understand it anyway. My wife and stepson are technologically challenged so they wouldn't be much help with setting up the system or troubleshooting it. I realize that I can buy better cameras but the Hikvision system I'm designing will display in 1080p and that's good enough for a home system.

Did you look at any of the photos I included with my post? Are you saying that my choices of outdoor cameras would give me the fields of view necessary to view everything I want to see, especially the windows and entry doors? That's what is important to me and I'm simply not smart enough to figure it out myself, even after trying to use field of view calculators and camera design software. If the cameras I've selected won't give me the field of view coverage I need I'll have to either change the locations of the cameras or add more cameras. If the cameras I've selected will give me what I want I can reduce the number of cameras from 13 to 9 or 10, which is what I'm attempting to do. That's why I'm here. I'm seeking the knowledge and experience of people who have these answers before I purchase all this equipment. I want to install these cameras only one time. I don't want to install them and then discover that I have to move them to different locations.

Thank you again for taking the time to help me. I really do appreciate it.

 

[klasipca]

You don't have to go far to read about Huisun mini PTZ, we have subforum dedicated to this here with plenty of information. If you are set to go with Hikvision only, then avoid 3MP anything, it's a two year old tech, newer 2MP/4MP WDR cams are a little better for about the same price. My advice would be to buy 1 or 2 cams first and try them out in different scenarios vs buying everything at once as you maybe disappointed with your selection. Hikvision makes great cams and firmware, but their 4xxx (http://overseas.hikvision.com/en/products_506.html) line is the best, the key ingredient is the large sensor 1/1.8 vs 1/3 in 2xxx series..

As far as your FOV selection I am not an expert as I am spoiled by 10x optical zoom, but in the past my choice was between 2.8mm and 4mm for most coverage outdoors.

 

[Sichuan]

If you are set to go with Hikvision only, then avoid 3MP anything, it's a two year old tech, newer 2MP/4MP WDR cams are a little better for about the same price.

Thanks again, klasipca. At the beginning of this thread I stated "I've spent weeks researching different issues such as frame rates, resolutions, megapixels, data flow rates and angles of view and I'm still not competent enough to arrive at certain conclusions." That's a fact, which again, is why I'm here.

If you can explain some things to me I would appreciate it very much. The three 3MP Hikvision turret models I mention in my initial post all have WDR, 3D Digital Noise Reduction and Day/Night IR cut filter with auto switch. They also use 1/3" progressive scan CMOS sensors. These same turret cameras are also available in 4MP for about $25 more each. The 4MP models also have WDR and 3D Digital Noise Reduction but they do not have the Day/Night IR cut filter with auto switch. They use 1/2.8" progressive scan CMOS sensors.

Question one: Can you tell me whether or not the Day/Night IR cut filters on the 3MP models are important to night vision clarity? I've read that cameras with IR cut filters give a much better display and a much better contrast between light and dark images in the same picture or video stream.

Question two: Can you explain to me why a 1/2.8 sensor is far better than a 1/3 sensor? Please excuse my ignorance.

If the 4MP models of the turret cameras I want to use are so much better than the 3MP models then I'll go with the 4MP models, even if the 4MP models don't have IR cut filters. It's a small price difference to pay for higher quality cameras.

Thank you again for your time and assistance.

 

[klasipca]

If you really want to get all technical information on why larger sensors are better then you can simply search the internet. Something like this http://www.gizmag.com/camera-sensor-size-guide/26684/. But, in short the larger the sensor the better results you'll get when the sun sets. With 1/2.8 vs 1/3 you might not see a big difference, but with 1/1.8 vs 1/3 you will. Newer Hikvision 4MP WDR models are slightly better over 3MP, but don't expect any miracles out of 1/3 sensor size, these sensors are used in most budget cams these days. In any case, as mentioned buy one cam and try it for yourself before you commit with entire system, you may find that results you are getting out 4MP Hikvisions are acceptable for you. I am strictly speaking from my experience with these cams.

 

[fenderman]

They both have the day night ir cut filter.

 

[Sichuan]

If you really want to get all technical information on why larger sensors are better then you can simply search the internet.

Thank you again, klasipca. I need to correct some information on my previous post. I spent some time researching the post made by fenderman concerning the IR cut filters and that's when I discovered my errors.

I've been studying, for several weeks, all the Hikvision cameras and NVRs at B&H Photo&Video, JMAC Supply Corp. and Surveillance-Video. These three companies are all Hikvision USA authorized sellers. B&H was the most helpful out of the three so when I order the cameras and NVR I'll give B&H the sale. The support I get now, before ordering, is an indication of the support I'll receive after the sale so even if the cameras and NVR are a little more expensive at B&H than the other two sellers B&H will get my business. When I stated that the 4MP models DS-2CD2342WD-I-2.8MM and DS-2CD2342WD-I-4MM had 1/2.8" progressive scan CMOS sensors that information came from B&H's website. I think their information is wrong. Surveillance-Video and Hikvision USA websites list these cameras as having 1/3" progressive scan CMOS sensors. I have asked Surveillance-Video and B&H for a clarification on the sensor specifications but I'm almost certain the correct sensor rating for these two turrets is 1/3. JMAC doesn't list any specifications for these cameras on their website and I'm not going to call them to get it. Having to call to get the specifications is not necessary and indicates, to me, a high pressure sales environment.

Both B&H and Surveillance-Video do not list these two Hikvision turrets as having a Day/Night IR cut filter with auto switch and that is why I assumed such a thing. After reading fenderman's post I researched this issue further. Hikvision USA lists both models as having an IR cut filter so I was wrong on that also.

I was also wrong about the 4MP DS-2CD2342WD-I models having a 12MM version. Apparently, Hikvision either doesn't make it or it's not available in the U.S from Hikvision USA authorized sellers.

Thanks again, klasipca, for your time and assistance. I appreciate it very much when people take time away from their families and their own schedule to help others, like myself, who need the assistance.

 

[Sichuan]

They both have the day night ir cut filter.

Thank you very much, fenderman, for the information. I appreciate it very much. As I told klasipca, it was your post that prompted me to do the research that led to the discovery of my mistakes, especially the mistake concerning the CMOS sensors. I think I'll still go with the 4 MP models of these cameras as the increased cost is minimal, unless through research I discover some reason why I shouldn't use them. I've decided that I don't need the 12MM model anyway if the 2.8 MM models will capture my front entry door if angled properly. After researching fields of view more thoroughly I'm almost certain that the 2.8 MM turrets will give me all the viewing area I need for my front yard, the front windows and the front entry door.

 

[klasipca]

B&H is overpriced. Try LTS (rebranded Hikvision) https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/257-Good-source-to-buy-IP-items-at

 

[Sichuan]

B&H is overpriced. Try LTS (rebranded Hikvision) https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/257-Good-source-to-buy-IP-items-at

Hey klasipca. Is the LTS you mention the same as this link: http://www.ltsecurityinc.com/

If so, do you have to be a reseller to purchase merchandise from them? Does LTS provide the warranty/repair service? Are their Hikvision products made for the U.S. market? If so, who provides the firmware updates(LTS?). Should I sign up at the website or just request a catalog and price list on the link you provided?

 

[klasipca]

Contact milksbad in the thread above he will hook you up with a catalog and pricing

 

[Sichuan]

Contact milksbad in the thread above he will hook you up with a catalog and pricing

Thank you, klasipca. I've done so.

 

[Sichuan]

Contact milksbad in the thread above he will hook you up with a catalog and pricing

I have a question for you, klasipca. I've selected the cameras I'll be buying. The cameras I'll be using are all 2.8MM except for two of them, which will be 4MM. They will all be turrets with the exception of 2 or 3 bullets. All the cameras will have DWDR, 3D Digital Noise Reduction, 1/3" progressive scan CMOS sensors, Matrix IR LEDs and Day/Night IR cut filters with auto switch. Since this is a home security system and I'll be recording the video streams in real time 24 hours a day on a Samsung 24 inch LED 1080p monitor do you think I have anything to gain, as far as video clarity is concerned, by going from 3MP cameras to 4MP cameras? Should I stick with 3MP cameras? If 4MP cameras aren't going to give me much improvement in video clarity the 3MP cameras will reduce the amount of data flow to my storage drives.

 

[fenderman]

I have a question for you, klasipca. I've selected the cameras I'll be buying. The cameras I'll be using are all 2.8MM except for two of them, which will be 4MM. They will all be turrets with the exception of 2 or 3 bullets. All the cameras will have DWDR, 3D Digital Noise Reduction, 1/3" progressive scan CMOS sensors, Matrix IR LEDs and Day/Night IR cut filters with auto switch. Since this is a home security system and I'll be recording the video streams in real time 24 hours a day on a Samsung 24 inch LED 1080p monitor do you think I have anything to gain, as far as video clarity is concerned, by going from 3MP cameras to 4MP cameras? Should I stick with 3MP cameras? If 4MP cameras aren't going to give me much improvement in video clarity the 3MP cameras will reduce the amount of data flow to my storage drives.

The megapixel rating of the camera has absolutely nothing to do with the storage volume. That is all bitrate. The 2mp and 4mp WDR cameras will produce a better low light image.

 

[Sichuan]

The megapixel rating of the camera has absolutely nothing to do with the storage volume. That is all bitrate. The 2mp and 4mp WDR cameras will produce a better low light image.

Thank you, fenderman. You know, I've spent weeks researching all these issues and I still can't seem to understand a lot of it. I've watched the videos. I've looked at the pictures and the charts. I've read article after article after article. I'm retired and I spend hours at a time trying to figure out all these things and I'm simply overwhelmed by all the information. It's my understanding so far that the greater the number of megapixels the larger the resolution and the bigger the sensor the more light it can capture. I'm confronted with sensor sizes such as 1/3, 1/1.8 and 1/2.8. I read about comparisons of 2MP v 4MP and 3MP v 4MP. Some people say 2MP produces better video clarity and some people say 4 MP produces better video clarity, although I imagine a lot of it has to do with the quality of the sensors and the quality of the lenses. I've decided to buy the LTS branded Hikvision turret cameras and the NVR from LTS but when I search the LTS catalog I'm confronted with 2.1, 3.2 and 4.1 MP turrets, 1/3 and 1/2.8 CMOS sensors. I'm going to be buying 8 to 10 LTS branded turrets that will be placed on the soffits of my house, 2 to 3 bullets that will be placed on the roof peak ends and possibly an auto detect turret for my front entry door. I'm simply trying to determine which cameras will give me the best daylight video clarity when viewed on a 24 inch LED 1080p monitor. In this case, I need to determine what is more important to daytime video clarity; the sensors or lower/higher megapixels, and if two or more models have the same lenses but different sensors, megapixels and types of WDR which ones I go with. Common sense sometimes dictates that when looking at similar products the highest priced of the two or more would be the highest quality product but we all know that's not always true. Let's take, for example, the 2.8MM turrets I want to buy. The CMIP1122-28 2.1 MP with a 1/2.8 sensor at $109.00 each and the CMIP1132-28 3.2 MP with 1/3 sensor at $129.00 each are both 2.8 MM turrets with DWDR. The CMIP1122W-28 2.1 MP with a 1/2.8 sensor at $129.00 each and the CMIP1142W-28 4.1 MP with a 1/3 sensor at $149.00 each are both 2.8 MM turrets with 120db True WDR. I'm not concerned about the higher price of the CMIP1142W-28 but if the CMIP1122W-28 is a better choice I'll go with that one.

If the 120db True WDR turret will give me the same daylight video clarity as the DWDR models but better nighttime clarity by balancing the light and dark spots I think I should go with the 120db True WDR turret but I still have to decide whether to get the one with the 1/2.8 sensor or the one with the 1/3 sensor. This would be the main decision I'm now confronted with. This is the decision I need advice on and help with. Of course, once I make the decision and buy the cameras I'm stuck with it but I'm certain I'll be happy with my decision and satisfied with the video clarity. After all, it's just a home security system.

I've also read several articles and watched several videos that show better daylight video clarity and colors with the DWDR turned off. The same may apply with the True WDR model turret. I suppose I'll have to just check out the daylight video color once I get the system up and running to determine whether or not I should run the cameras during the daytime with the True WDR off.

As I've stated before, I always spend a lot of time trying to figure out what I need before asking someone else to give up their time to share their knowledge and experience and provide some guidance. It's that guidance that allows me to make better decisions and I'll take all the guidance and assistance I can get. As for storage, I'm not too concerned about that. I'm going to buy a 16 channel, 16 port IP POE or IP POE+ NVR, H264 or better with a gigabit Ethernet port, one that will handle cameras up to 4 megapixels and will automatically discover all the cameras. I don't want to go through the hassle of configuring the camera IP addresses. I'll get a model with 8 SATA connections for up to 48TB of storage space. I'll start out with 24TB of storage and once I determine how many days I can run all the cameras in real time for 24 hours a day I'll know how many days I can get on 24 TB. If necessary, I'll be able to add more drives.

 

[JFire]

I have a question for you, klasipca. I've selected the cameras I'll be buying. The cameras I'll be using are all 2.8MM except for two of them, which will be 4MM. They will all be turrets with the exception of 2 or 3 bullets. All the cameras will have DWDR, 3D Digital Noise Reduction, 1/3" progressive scan CMOS sensors, Matrix IR LEDs and Day/Night IR cut filters with auto switch. Since this is a home security system and I'll be recording the video streams in real time 24 hours a day on a Samsung 24 inch LED 1080p monitor do you think I have anything to gain, as far as video clarity is concerned, by going from 3MP cameras to 4MP cameras? Should I stick with 3MP cameras? If 4MP cameras aren't going to give me much improvement in video clarity the 3MP cameras will reduce the amount of data flow to my storage drives.

Just from playing around with my 2.8mm cameras I can tell you they'll be fine observing your large yard but you won't be really able to identify people/faces. For your door camera I'd go 6mm. That's what I'll be placing on my doors when I purchase next. I'll use my 2.8s for the fov but will have the mini ptzs for ID purposes.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

[fenderman]

Just from playing around with my 2.8mm cameras I can tell you they'll be fine observing your large yard but you won't be really able to identify people/faces. For your door camera I'd go 6mm. That's what I'll be placing on my doors when I purchase next. I'll use my 2.8s for the fov but will have the mini ptzs for ID purposes.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

If you cant ID a face with a 2.8mm camera at your door then something is wrong with your setup or cam... If you place a 6mm camera at the door, all you will get is a face, you wont be able to see if there is a package on the ground or any surrounding important activity.

 

[JFire]

If you cant ID a face with a 2.8mm camera at your door then something is wrong with your setup or cam... If you place a 6mm camera at the door, all you will get is a face, you wont be able to see if there is a package on the ground or any surrounding important activity.

What about 4? I literally want only coverage of my small porch and sidewalk to curb. Other cameras will cover the rest of the frontage. The other door is on the small porch on left.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

 

[fenderman]

A 4mm would work..but the subject is so close to the camera that a 2.8 will work just as well and give you some more coverage if you need it.