A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Friday
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fenderman
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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
Stop acting like an ass or ill help move you to that forum.Don't come in here talking about your $2.5k highbrow guns when your average homeowner is perfectly happy with thier $100 guns from alibaba.
Oops, sorry... Wrong forum
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
Point of fact: although Benelli does indeed manufacture expensive "highbrow" sport shotguns, the M4 is not a among them. Nay, the sole purpose of the M4 is to kill. Human beings. Quickly.Don't come in here talking about your $2.5k highbrow guns when your average homeowner is perfectly happy with thier $100 guns from alibaba.
Oops, sorry... Wrong forum
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
I was "extracting the urine". We have pretty tough firearm laws here, so our exposure to guns are quite limited. I just saw an opportunity to give a bit of a rib but I forget some forum participants are humour impaired.
fenderman
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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
Hilarious, buh bye
PSPCommOp
Getting the hang of it
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
Shot my old bosses Benelli way back when at a trap shoot. Spent over $5k for it and it was smooth as butter. But personally, Ill take my Mossberg 500 with OO buck for home security any day of the week. Prob shoot any asshole caught entering my house twice, once for breaking in and another for making me hurt my shoulder shooting him. Fucker has some kick.
Videos like this help prove two things. 1. Gun safety and proficiency isn't something to take lightly. Glad to see the good guys (or gal in this case) came out unharmed. And 2. No matter what you thoughts on gun and gun violence, there are bad people out there who wanna take what you have and won't think twice to harm you in order to do it.
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And efficiently. And it does the job pretty well.
Shot my old bosses Benelli way back when at a trap shoot. Spent over $5k for it and it was smooth as butter. But personally, Ill take my Mossberg 500 with OO buck for home security any day of the week. Prob shoot any asshole caught entering my house twice, once for breaking in and another for making me hurt my shoulder shooting him. Fucker has some kick.
Videos like this help prove two things. 1. Gun safety and proficiency isn't something to take lightly. Glad to see the good guys (or gal in this case) came out unharmed. And 2. No matter what you thoughts on gun and gun violence, there are bad people out there who wanna take what you have and won't think twice to harm you in order to do it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
Yea. I own a Mossberg 500 also...and a Remington 870P. They are very dependable shotguns IMO. But I think it a leap of faith to assume that the shooter in this video is a "good guy." Rather, let us agree that "she was the aggrieved party in this particular event in her life...and she appears to have come out on top."
Yea. I own a Mossberg 500 also...and a Remington 870P. They are very dependable shotguns IMO. But I think it a leap of faith to assume that the shooter in this video is a "good guy." Rather, let us agree that "she was the aggrieved party in this particular event in her life...and she appears to have come out on top."
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
Yup.. She'd be up for murder..unfortunately.
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
In Texas she would be hailed as the new Annie Oakley with presidential mentions, Here in New York she would hang at noon with our Governor kicking the box out from underneath her. Stark Contrast but true.
Kawboy12R
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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
Some places take a dim view of shooting people in the back after they've left your home, even if they REALLY deserved a large dose of copper coated attitude adjustment. Me? I hope every shot cost them some blood and they end up having to toss some fat guy's salad for 10 years.
Some places take a dim view of shooting people in the back after they've left your home, even if they REALLY deserved a large dose of copper coated attitude adjustment. Me? I hope every shot cost them some blood and they end up having to toss some fat guy's salad for 10 years.
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
Good point.
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
You would say they were seeking cover to return fire and kill you.
Kawboy12R
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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
My argument would that they were still armed and I still expected to be shot at any second. Their momma would probably say they were good boys who got shot in the back and didn't really mean any real harm. Which is probably part of the reason why they were committing armed robbery in the first place.
My argument would that they were still armed and I still expected to be shot at any second. Their momma would probably say they were good boys who got shot in the back and didn't really mean any real harm. Which is probably part of the reason why they were committing armed robbery in the first place.
bigredfish
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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
The Good
The Questionable
Clint says it best:
The Good
- Be committed and decisive. When she took the fight to the thugs they were shocked and thrown off their gameplan. Most criminals are cowards.
- Have a quality high-capacity bedside gun and know how to use it. She fired to slide-lock and looks like she needed every round. Tell those who promote "common sense" outlawing of "high capacity magazines" to piss off.
The Questionable
- Would have liked to have seen her use both hands on the gun (she's holding a cell phone in the other hand), but hey, whatever works!
- Established doctrine says stay in your bedroom, hunker down and defend. This could have just as easily turned out badly if one of the BG's had come from behind her, or if they had decided to stick around and shoot it out.
Clint says it best:
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
This is a definative statement. What causes you to believe this is true?
bigredfish
Known around here
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
Fair question, notice I did say "most"
From personal experience/observation, years of training by some of the very best "been there done that" types in the defensive firearm business, and countless stories like this one where typical BG's, when faced with equal force and someone not constrained in their ability to employ it, will most often turn and run. Remember she was outgunned 3 to 1.
The "typical" BG intent on burglary, robbery, theft, etc preys on what he deems an easy mark. They don't knowingly go after targets they believe will fight back. They are typically quite surprised when the target does.
Of course this doesn't apply to a much smaller category I'll just call "crazies". Examples are nut jobs the likes of religious psychopaths (Isis), the chemically impaired (crack/meth addict), the mentally impaired, or the truly hardened bad guy who just doesn't give a f&@# whether he lives to see another day or not.
There are more than a few studies over the years by Pew, Cato, BJS, and others who have questioned thousands of career criminals about the subject. The most often quoted is the study by Wright and Rossi for the DOJ, but there are more recent ones by the Bureau of Justice Statistics that come to the same conclusions.
Study of 1800+ Felons:
81% of interviewees agreed that a “smart criminal” will try to determine if a potential victim is armed.
74% indicated that burglars avoided occupied dwellings, because of fear of being shot.
57% said that most criminals feared armed citizens more than the police.
Sorry to get down in the weeds, it's a key part of the subject matter of some of our classes.
Fair question, notice I did say "most"
From personal experience/observation, years of training by some of the very best "been there done that" types in the defensive firearm business, and countless stories like this one where typical BG's, when faced with equal force and someone not constrained in their ability to employ it, will most often turn and run. Remember she was outgunned 3 to 1.
The "typical" BG intent on burglary, robbery, theft, etc preys on what he deems an easy mark. They don't knowingly go after targets they believe will fight back. They are typically quite surprised when the target does.
Of course this doesn't apply to a much smaller category I'll just call "crazies". Examples are nut jobs the likes of religious psychopaths (Isis), the chemically impaired (crack/meth addict), the mentally impaired, or the truly hardened bad guy who just doesn't give a f&@# whether he lives to see another day or not.
There are more than a few studies over the years by Pew, Cato, BJS, and others who have questioned thousands of career criminals about the subject. The most often quoted is the study by Wright and Rossi for the DOJ, but there are more recent ones by the Bureau of Justice Statistics that come to the same conclusions.
Study of 1800+ Felons:
81% of interviewees agreed that a “smart criminal” will try to determine if a potential victim is armed.
74% indicated that burglars avoided occupied dwellings, because of fear of being shot.
57% said that most criminals feared armed citizens more than the police.
Sorry to get down in the weeds, it's a key part of the subject matter of some of our classes.
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
Question for @bigredfish: do you believe that the simple presence of security cameras are -- unto themselves -- a significant deterrent, a minor deterrent or no deterrent at all? In other words, in your opinion does the mere presence of security cameras which appear to me monitoring a property act as (1) a significant deterrent, (2) a minor deterrent or (3) no deterrent at all?
Thank you @bigredfish...I appreciate the information you have provided and the manner in which you've delivered it. I believe that phrases such as "most criminals are cowards" which are tossed around are often myths, personal belief, prejudice or simply weasel words and are most often delivered without much to back them up other than more myths, more personal belief, and more weasel words. You provided additional information which, in addition my own personal experience, leads me to believe that, indeed, most criminals are cowards.
Question for @bigredfish: do you believe that the simple presence of security cameras are -- unto themselves -- a significant deterrent, a minor deterrent or no deterrent at all? In other words, in your opinion does the mere presence of security cameras which appear to me monitoring a property act as (1) a significant deterrent, (2) a minor deterrent or (3) no deterrent at all?
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bigredfish
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Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
I don't want to give the impression that I'm a SME on home security, far from it, my area of interest is more in personal self defense, specifically as a Firearm Instructor.
As with most things, I believe the answer is most likely "it depends" on the criminal, but by and large I'd say at best #2- minor deterrent. My experience has been that it does not seem to deter the average car burglars who seem to visit our little middle class neighborhood 2-4 times per year, or the daytime "nobody home" house burglary. We even have video surveillance signs at the entrance and 3 Axis cams monitoring the entrance and cul-de-sac in plain view (one tag dedicated). I watched the last group in August come in with tag covered, wearing gloves, wearing fashionable thug attire (hoodies) and casually go driveway to driveway even with motion sensing floodlights popping on all around them along with very obvious cam IR sources that are hard to miss. Other times they have been in a bit more of a hurry, but 3 of 4 last instances the car tag we got came back stolen and abandoned the next day
I view video surveillance as more of an evidence thing for LE, and in my case, trying now to A) get facial recognition, and B)wire up alarms to notify me in real time to allow me to if not outright confront, at least have a chance of LE being able to be called while things are "in-progess". I currently rely on the HOA cams for LPR.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, it's just not legal to shoot the bastards in Fla unless they pose an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm. Of course once/if they were to use force to enter the home, then our Castle Doctrine gives me the presumption that they mean me harm so its' game on.
On average car/residential burglars there seem to be two types: A) "pros" just doing their nightly work to avoid having to mess with a mundane real job, and B) druggies who are unpredictable and will do anything to get the next buzz. The latter are the ones I worry about.
I don't want to give the impression that I'm a SME on home security, far from it, my area of interest is more in personal self defense, specifically as a Firearm Instructor.
As with most things, I believe the answer is most likely "it depends" on the criminal, but by and large I'd say at best #2- minor deterrent. My experience has been that it does not seem to deter the average car burglars who seem to visit our little middle class neighborhood 2-4 times per year, or the daytime "nobody home" house burglary. We even have video surveillance signs at the entrance and 3 Axis cams monitoring the entrance and cul-de-sac in plain view (one tag dedicated). I watched the last group in August come in with tag covered, wearing gloves, wearing fashionable thug attire (hoodies) and casually go driveway to driveway even with motion sensing floodlights popping on all around them along with very obvious cam IR sources that are hard to miss. Other times they have been in a bit more of a hurry, but 3 of 4 last instances the car tag we got came back stolen and abandoned the next day
I view video surveillance as more of an evidence thing for LE, and in my case, trying now to A) get facial recognition, and B)wire up alarms to notify me in real time to allow me to if not outright confront, at least have a chance of LE being able to be called while things are "in-progess". I currently rely on the HOA cams for LPR.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, it's just not legal to shoot the bastards in Fla unless they pose an imminent threat of death or great bodily harm. Of course once/if they were to use force to enter the home, then our Castle Doctrine gives me the presumption that they mean me harm so its' game on.
On average car/residential burglars there seem to be two types: A) "pros" just doing their nightly work to avoid having to mess with a mundane real job, and B) druggies who are unpredictable and will do anything to get the next buzz. The latter are the ones I worry about.
PSPCommOp
Getting the hang of it
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
From my experience in LE, that assumption is correct, most are cowards. Whether actual cowardice is at play when standing down during the commission of a crime can be debated, it really comes down to either A. being scared or B. realizing much more effort will now have to go into said crime to achieve the desired outcome.
i.e. Planning on breaking into a home, only to find that as you start walking around the property, theres a very large dog inside barking its head off. Smarter to move on to another house then to have to deal with the dog and/or possibly attract the attention of neighbors? Most would say yes and this has been my experience dealing with multiple offense burglars when they are confessing to their crimes after they've been caught.
But if someone truly wants to get into your house and take something of yours, they will dedicate enough time to a plan to deal with unknown factors. They also will not stop and use whatever force necessary to get what they want. Luckily for most of society these types of criminals (sociopaths) aren't the majority.
Obviously no two situations are alike and all are based on their own variables but I've experienced enough to say I'd agree with his statement.
From my experience in LE, that assumption is correct, most are cowards. Whether actual cowardice is at play when standing down during the commission of a crime can be debated, it really comes down to either A. being scared or B. realizing much more effort will now have to go into said crime to achieve the desired outcome.
i.e. Planning on breaking into a home, only to find that as you start walking around the property, theres a very large dog inside barking its head off. Smarter to move on to another house then to have to deal with the dog and/or possibly attract the attention of neighbors? Most would say yes and this has been my experience dealing with multiple offense burglars when they are confessing to their crimes after they've been caught.
But if someone truly wants to get into your house and take something of yours, they will dedicate enough time to a plan to deal with unknown factors. They also will not stop and use whatever force necessary to get what they want. Luckily for most of society these types of criminals (sociopaths) aren't the majority.
Obviously no two situations are alike and all are based on their own variables but I've experienced enough to say I'd agree with his statement.
Q™
IPCT Contributor
Re: A homeowner turns the tables on three armed men who broke into her home last Frid
Thank you @bigredfish and @PSPCommOp.
Fellas, tell me your opinion: Does signaling (signs?) that the property owner is armed (1) act as a deterrent and discourage crimes committed against the property, (2) encourage crimes to be committed against the property or (3) have a no effect either.
I understand that this is conjecture, however, I appreciate your opinions.
Thank you @bigredfish and @PSPCommOp.
Fellas, tell me your opinion: Does signaling (signs?) that the property owner is armed (1) act as a deterrent and discourage crimes committed against the property, (2) encourage crimes to be committed against the property or (3) have a no effect either.
I understand that this is conjecture, however, I appreciate your opinions.
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