Blue Iris on older dual Xeon X5650 server?

Mike84 · Mar 27, 2018

I'm looking to run Blue Iris on an older server that we already have, a Dell PowerEdge R610 w/ dual socket Xeon X5650. This is a total of 12 physical cores at 2.67 Ghz. It has 32 GB of RAM. I don't know much about BI CPU usage. At home, I run a single camera on a similar system in a VM with no problems but have not tried scaling to multiple cameras.

Here at work we would like to run about 8 cameras on it, with direct to disk recording 24/7 with no motion detection. The cameras are 4K Amcrest cameras (which we don't mind running at 2K or even 1080p if necessary). I would imagine that this server would be plenty powerful if it's not doing any re-encoding? BI wouldn't be doing much more than dumping the data stream to disk, right? Should leave enough CPU for remote access/viewing, etc.

I'm aware a modern i5 or i7 would definitely be better than 8 year old Xeons, but if this will work then we don't want to buy a new system for it. We don't particularly care about power consumption, either.

I'm just trying to figure out if anybody knows of some reason that this setup would take more CPU than I think it would, given my inexperience with the software. Thanks for any input!

zebrock · Mar 27, 2018

Most Xeons dont support quicksync (hardware acceleration) so I would think those procs would be running at or close to 100% with 8 cameras which really defeats the purpose if you're dropping frames.

fenderman · Mar 27, 2018

Power consumption costs alone make that system a terrible idea..

Mike84 · Mar 27, 2018

zebrock said:
Most Xeons dont support quicksync (hardware acceleration) so I would think those procs would be running at or close to 100% with 8 cameras which really defeats the purpose if you're
dropping frames.

That's even with direct-to-disk enabled and motion detection turned off?

fenderman said:
Power consumption costs alone make that system a terrible idea..

We're not concerned with the power consumption. It'll probably be somewhere around 300 watts.

fenderman · Mar 27, 2018

Mike84 said:
That's even with direct-to-disk enabled and motion detection turned off?

We're not concerned with the power consumption. It'll probably be somewhere around 300 watts.

You don't pay the electric bill?

Mike84 · Mar 27, 2018

fenderman said:
You don't pay the electric bill?

No, but with the 6 Haas mill machines and lathes eating 8-10 kW each for 8 hours a day, this isn't even a blip on the radar for our electric bill lol. If you consider the cost of buying a new i5 or i7 system, it's basically a wash anyway. At best. So, if this works, it's the way to go IMO. If it won't, then okay we'll get a 7th or 8th gen i7 for it.

We do have some spare 2nd gen i5 workstations in our storage room, but they're not going to be nearly as powerful as a dual socket Xeon system with 12 cores.

tangent · Mar 27, 2018

Mike84 said:
No, but with the 6 Haas mill machines and lathes eating 8-10 kW each for 8 hours a day, this isn't even a blip on the radar for our electric bill lol. If you consider the cost of buying a new i5 or i7 system, it's basically a wash anyway. At best. So, if this works, it's the way to go IMO. If it won't, then okay we'll get a 7th or 8th gen i7 for it.

We do have some spare 2nd gen i5 workstations in our storage room, but they're not going to be nearly as powerful as a dual socket Xeon system with 12 cores.

There's pretty much no case where running an 8 year old server makes sense.

I know industrial customers can pay lower electric rates, but the repayment period on saving 300w might be a lot shorter than you realize.

fenderman · Mar 27, 2018

Mike84 said:
No, but with the 6 Haas mill machines and lathes eating 8-10 kW each for 8 hours a day, this isn't even a blip on the radar for our electric bill lol. If you consider the cost of buying a new i5 or i7 system, it's basically a wash anyway. At best. So, if this works, it's the way to go IMO. If it won't, then okay we'll get a 7th or 8th gen i7 for it.

We do have some spare 2nd gen i5 workstations in our storage room, but they're not going to be nearly as powerful as a dual socket Xeon system with 12 cores.

you are completely missing the point ...the other power consumption is irrelevant...
300w vs 50w is a 250-500 cost PER year depending on where you are located...for 300-400 bux you can buy a machine that will outperform that old space heater...

Mike84 · Mar 27, 2018

Guys, I'm not here to get into an argument about power consumption (which is why I said in the OP that we're not concerned with power consumption, I figured somebody would bring it up and I'm aware of that factor), although I will keep your advice in mind. I'm just trying to determine my options at this point. I may very well just put in a request to get a Coffee Lake system when it comes time to put this all together.

Zebrock said I'd probably be close to or at 100% CPU usage with 8 camera. Is that even with direct-to-disk enabled and motion detection turned off? What else is BI doing in that configuration besides dumping the raw stream to disk? Just trying to learn more about the software.

fenderman · Mar 27, 2018

Mike84 said:
Guys, I'm not here to get into an argument about power consumption (which is why I said in the OP that we're not concerned with power consumption, I figured somebody would bring it up and I'm aware of that factor), although I will keep your advice in mind. I'm just trying to determine my options at this point. I may very well just put in a request to get a Coffee Lake system when it comes time to put this all together.

Zebrock said I'd probably be close to or at 100% CPU usage with 8 camera. Is that even with direct-to-disk enabled and motion detection turned off? What else is BI doing in that configuration besides dumping the raw stream to disk? Just trying to learn more about the software.

it doesnt matter if you are not here to ask about it...we will tell you when you are being stupid...you can easily run 8cams 1080p on that server..but only an idiot would...the entire purpose of using old gear is to save money, you are doing the opposite...your electric company thanks you.

tangent · Mar 27, 2018

Just because you tell us to ignore the fire, it doesn't mean we will. Asinine requests structured to ignore important details will be ignored.

Regarding much larger power consumption items including things like lighting, you should really have someone evaluate the efficiency of a variety of equipment you have both in terms of electrical usage and production rate. There may be some other upgrades that would pay for themselves within a few years, a little math goes a long way...

bp2008 · Mar 27, 2018

I wouldn't count on good performance with 8x 8MP cameras, though if as you say you are willing to drop the resolution to 2MP or 4MP, that would make a big difference. Those cores are individually weak, and all together (both CPUs included) the xeons are significantly less powerful than a single Coffee Lake i7. Once you factor in the i7's hardware acceleration, the performance gap just gets wider.

If properly optimized you should be able to run about 1600 megapixels per second (ballpark figure) on an i7-8700K, and 8x 4K cameras at 15 FPS is about 995 MP/s which you should actually be able to run on a skylake/kaby lake i7.

Mike84 · Mar 27, 2018

bp2008 said:
I wouldn't count on good performance with 8x 8MP cameras, though if as you say you are willing to drop the resolution to 2MP or 4MP, that would make a big difference. Those cores are individually weak, and all together (both CPUs included) the xeons are significantly less powerful than a single Coffee Lake i7. Once you factor in the i7's hardware acceleration, the performance gap just gets wider.

If properly optimized you should be able to run about 1600 megapixels per second (ballpark figure) on an i7-8700K, and 8x 4K cameras at 15 FPS is about 995 MP/s which you should actually be able to run on a skylake/kaby lake i7.

Thanks for the answer. Exactly what I need. I was mainly just unsure on just how much CPU each camera would need in direct-to-disk mode. Sounds like it's time to consider an upgrade. I have an 8700k at home, fantastic CPU.

Thank you for not being a condescending cunt like everyone else. Instead of calling me an idiot and saying I'm ignoring a fire like a bunch of drama queens, maybe they should consider that they don't know all of the facts of the situation. If I am running this setup for 6 months or a year, then of course the old server would make sense vs buying a brand new top of the line system.

fenderman · Mar 27, 2018

Mike84 said:
Thanks for the answer. Exactly what I need. I was mainly just unsure on just how much CPU each camera would need in direct-to-disk mode. Sounds like it's time to consider an upgrade. I have an 8700k at home, fantastic CPU.

Thank you for not being a condescending cunt like everyone else. Instead of calling me an idiot and saying I'm ignoring a fire like a bunch of drama queens, maybe they should consider that they don't know all of the facts of the situation. If I am running this setup for 6 months or a year, then of course the old server would make sense vs buying a brand new top of the line system.

we do know the facts, you are being penny wise and pound foolish...for 100 dollars you can buy a low power pc to run 8x1080p cams

bp2008 · Mar 27, 2018

One important fact, so far missing from this thread, is that the cheap PCs @fenderman is talking about are used/refurbished, not brand new and certainly not top of the line. Building an all-new i7 system can easily cost near $1000 and that'll take quite a while to pay for itself in energy savings. But a used one can be had for a small fraction of that and still be reasonably efficient compared to an old dual Xeon server, thanks to more modern architecture and hardware acceleration.

Mike84 · Mar 27, 2018

TheDank said:
I enjoy Google tricks, so here's one to share for people who want to do a quick determination of energy costs. Or just about any calculation. It's fun to play with. And usually faster than pulling out a calculator.

Anyways, you can enter expressions such as this to Google search and it will usually give you the answer you're looking for:

250 W * $0.20 / kWh * 6 months

In this case it gives you the answer:

(((250 W) * $0.20) / kWh) * (6 months) =
219.145319 U.S. dollars

So that would be the additional energy cost of the scenario above of a 300W system vs a 50W system for 6 months. I used $0.20 which is my average cost per kWh, yours will be different, of course. And your time frame will probably be different.

Since you're really the only person who knows your particular financial situation, and the relative Time Value of your money, you've probably done the math yourself by now. But this is still a useful tool for the ol' toolbelt.

Disclaimer: I learned this trick from someone else in the forum who demonstrated it to calculate storage requirements for a given bit rate over a given amount of time.

Good info.

Mike84 · Mar 27, 2018

I got a little unhinged earlier, so I apologize to everyone for that. I just got a little annoyed because people were calling me an idiot even though I'm aware it obviously costs more money to run and specifically said in the post that I don't care for the purposes of this discussion.

Mike84 · Mar 27, 2018

bp2008 said:
One important fact, so far missing from this thread, is that the cheap PCs @fenderman is talking about are used/refurbished, not brand new and certainly not top of the line. Building an all-new i7 system can easily cost near $1000 and that'll take quite a while to pay for itself in energy savings. But a used one can be had for a small fraction of that and still be reasonably efficient compared to an old dual Xeon server, thanks to more modern architecture and hardware acceleration.

Yes, new ones can get pricey. I recently spent $1500 building an 8700k system, although you can definitely go cheaper. I got a semi-expensive GPU and quite a bit of storage.

You should be able to spend $300-500 and get a pretty nice refurb.

bcr4977 · Apr 24, 2018

I have Dell T7500 with dual L5640 hex core Xeon processors and 48GB of RAM. It hosts 7 servers (6 x Windows, 1 x linux) with Hyper-V. I have 2 x 3mp and 2 x 4mp cameras, 10fps, and direct to disk recording enabled on one of the VM's. It's barely a blip in processor usage on the host, 3%. Last time I checked it was pulling around 170 watts at the wall. Don't worry, they treat everyone equally here. I received a similar scolding when I shared this configuration. lol Fenderman is blunt, but his thought process is correct. Newer processors with low power usage can pay for themselves quickly.

I also bought a HP 6300 desktop with an i5-3470 to setup Blue Iris for a family member. It's running 3 x 4mp, 10fps, direct to disk, and has hardware acceleration enabled. It uses around 10% of the CPU and consumes 30 watts.

krp70s · Apr 26, 2018

Nah did these ex-server Xeon builds before. They are useless when running with Blue Iris. Get secondhand Dell Optiplex i7 desktops, will definitely do a better job.

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Blue Iris on older dual Xeon X5650 server?

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