Help pick camera for facial recognition between 10-20ft

csterg

csterg

n3wb
Jan 24, 2018
9
6
Hi All,
I have been reading this forum for months now and I am trying to make some choices concerning several cameras I would need for my apartment, located in a multi-floor building. I want to monitor all exterior (to the flat) spaces. I have read through the wiki, cliff notes and hundreds of threads, still I do have a number of questions (obviously security is complex). I would appreciate any specific help on those:

My first priority is to be able to recognize faces at night with zero or very little light. Identification distance is 10-15 feet length, 4-8ft wide (think of corridors with doors in buildings and small porches/balconies). According to DORI tables, 2MP 2.8mm cameras are good enough (and great low-light performers):
  • Would a IPC-HDW2431TM-AS-S2 suffice? Is this model outdated?
  • Would you recommend the IR or the LED model? In general, I cannot decide whether a white-LED model will perform better at full darkness rather than an IR model for a small area of 5X15ft for person identification.

Living in Europe, it seems that Dahua models are harder to find than HikVision. Is there any suggested low-budget capable model for such a situation? I have spotted the HikVision 2CD2347G2-LU but seems an overkill for such a small space and I am not sure of the ColorVu results in full darkness. There is also HikVision DS-2CD2023G2-I which looks like a lower-budget 2mp Hik solution with a 0.005lux rating. The Dahua 5442 which is the most suggested model also seems an overkill (and cannot be found in prices that make any sense in the EU).

Thank you!
 
You will find at night that a 2.8mm to IDENTIFY gets iffy much past 10-12 feet, but RECOGNIZE (like someone you know), could get out to 10-20 feet. Look at the DORI numbers for a camera and I would suggest cutting the number in half or so at night time for most Field of Views.

Most of us have found the white LED to be gimmicky - it is not much brighter than a cellphone flashlight, so can you see 15-20 feet out at night in your location with it?

ColorVu/Fullcolor type cameras are great and serve a purpose, but most of us have found that they work best if there is some ambient light to begin with. And these cameras cannot see infrared, so you couldn't add it later.

Not sure what part of Europe you are in, but @EMPIRETECANDY is a trusted vendor here that sells all over the world.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Looking Out, samplenhold and sebastiantombs
Hey @wittaj,
What do you think about a varifocal for this scenario? Would 4MP Starlight Ultra Low Light Motorized Varifocal Turret IP Camera IPC-T5442T-ZE - IP Cam Talk Store be a good candidate? Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that any of the 2MP cameras @EMPIRETECANDY sells (at least that I could find) support facial recognition. The 4MP in the above link has a 1/1.8" sensor. So, it should perform close to a 2MP 1/2.7" sensor in low light, as far as I understand.
The varifocal would allow him to zoom ~4x, which should help with identifying further out.
 
Thank you for your replies. So, can one use IR at night to identify a person reliably? I have read about issue with ghosting, glare, etc. Assuming that all other factors are properly adjusted, is it possible to do that?
 
csterg said:
Thank you for your replies. So, can one use IR at night to identify a person reliably? I have read about issue with ghosting, glare, etc. Assuming that all other factors are properly adjusted, is it possible to do that?
Click to expand...

It is absolutely possible.

The problem is too many people keep cameras on default settings, which favor bright still images, but then have motion blur and ghosting at night.

If you get a good quality camera (like anything Dahua or Hikvision OEM for example), and set the shutter to at least 1/60s, then it is possible.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sebastiantombs
wittaj said:
It is absolutely possible.
Click to expand...
This is great info! I have read a lot about what you are talking about and I understand the physics.
I need to see if i can get my hands on the Dahuas in a reasonable price because my current investigation reveals that i will be paying twice the price i see at EmpireTech's shop to get it :(
 
  • Like
Reactions: mattp
csterg said:
This is great info! I have read a lot about what you are talking about and I understand the physics.
I need to see if i can get my hands on the Dahuas in a reasonable price because my current investigation reveals that i will be paying twice the price i see at EmpireTech's shop to get it :(
Click to expand...

Wait for @EMPIRETECANDY to jump on in about 4 hours or so and see if he can provide you with reasonable costs to sell you cameras.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sebastiantombs and mattp
I have the T2431T-AS-S2 in 2.8mm in my garage. It is ok for good light but a little problematic with IR and movement. See pics below. Another thing to realize is that this cam has a plastic ring with a locking tab. It is easy to remove the cam or reposition it.

The photos below are in pitch black, no light in the garage. I was moving very slowly. There are two of those cams and both have the IR lights on.

Garage 0 2022-02-12 11.09.11.390 PM.jpgGarage 0 2022-02-12 11.13.57.782 PM.jpgGarage 1 2022-02-12 11.13.43.211 PM.jpg

Here are a few with lights on.

Garage 0 2022-02-11 03.01.50.207 PM.jpgGarage 0 2022-02-12 01.52.19.497 PM.jpgGarage 1 2022-02-11 02.54.23.78 PM.jpgGarage 1 2022-02-12 01.51.26.434 PM.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: sebastiantombs
samplenhold said:
The photos below are in pitch black, no light in the garage. I was moving very slowly. There are two of those cams and both have the IR lights on.

View attachment 126234View attachment 126235View attachment 126236
Click to expand...
Very helpful. So these total-darkness stills have some ghosting, although you are moving slowly. Do you think that a 2231 would display better under this situation? Or a 5442?

These photos are exactly what I am looking for: limited space like yours, full darkness.
Thank you so much.
 
csterg said:
Do you think that a 2231 would display better under this situation? Or a 5442?
Click to expand...
I have a 2231 on my front porch but it has great lighting at night. It works just fine and that is why I chose it. I have no IR video from that cam as it is always in color mode.

I also have a few 5442s and again have no IR video as they are always in color. But based on the sensor being a 4MP on a 1/1.8" sensor, it should be one of the best in total darkness in IR mode. I think there are a few reviews of these cams here. Do a search.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sebastiantombs
Here's a shot of a fox from a 5442 with a 6mm lens at night with some auxiliary IR, He was in motion, walking quickly, in the still capture -

fox.jpg
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: Looking Out, EMPIRETECANDY and johnfitz
I'll guesstimate 25 to 30 feet, but is a 6mm lens on the camera.
 
Thanks. I spent some time tuning it for the view it has. That's the most important part of installing a camera, and installing once you figure out what lens size to use.
 
I've gotten similar captures on 2MP cameras, 3241T-ZAS, 2231T-ZS and 4231EM-ASE. All are using auxiliary IR lighting and the IR of the cameras is shut off. Unfortunately, I never saved any caps of the fox, and her kit, and they haven't been around recently, our neighbor got rid of the chickens.
 
  • Like
Reactions: EMPIRETECANDY
sebastiantombs said:
I've gotten similar captures on 2MP cameras, 3241T-ZAS, 2231T-ZS and 4231EM-ASE. All are using auxiliary IR lighting and the IR of the cameras is shut off.
Click to expand...
Ok, so the next question that pops up is, why using auxiliary IR lights? Is it because of the large area?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom