(16) 3MP Camera System

[USMC_Rob]

I am looking for a system that anyone is running 16 cameras running BI, all 3MP. Just the specs if you would.

I am fairly proficient at managing the CPU load, but running (9) 3MP on my last build I was hovering around 60% and wanted to see some specs of other's hardware running higher numbers of cameras.

Thanks a ton.

 

[fenderman]

I am looking for a system that anyone is running 16 cameras running BI, all 3MP. Just the specs if you would.

I am fairly proficient at managing the CPU load, but running (9) 3MP on my last build I was hovering around 60% and wanted to see some specs of other's hardware running higher numbers of cameras.

Thanks a ton.

What was your last build?

 

[USMC_Rob]

5th Generation Intel Core i7-5557U / 8GB Ram / 250GB SSD / (3) WD 4TB Passports / (9) Amcrest 3MP / Win 10 Pro

 

[fenderman]

5th Generation Intel Core i7-5557U / 8GB Ram / 250GB SSD / (3) WD 4TB Passports / (9) Amcrest 3MP / Win 10 Pro

That is a weak processor equivalent to a desktop i3...look at an i7-6700 if you want lots of headroom..otherwise you can make do on an i5-6500...

 

[USMC_Rob]

Ya, I had limited space for the server, the client literally gave me a 2x4 space to house the equipment, so i went with a Intel NUC. Runs fine, but next job is a 16 camera setup and wanted to have plenty of room on that one. I don't really like it when the CPU is above 50% on a job.

Thanks for the replies.

 

[bobfather]

I would personally go for an i7-3770 system. Ebay has tons of these - here's a complete system for $219.

Add another 4GB of RAM for $30, and a 4TB hard drive for $100-130. ~$400 all in after you purchase Blue Iris, less than 10% slower than the i7-6700, and about 30% faster than the i5-6500.

I'm running Blue Iris with 24 cams at 2.1mp, 10fps, hardware acceleration on and direct to disk, and the UI2 interface reports 47% with Blue Iris running as a service. When all cameras are recording, it hits about 57% CPU usage.

 

[USMC_Rob]

Nice find Bob! Thats a better deal for larger camera systems than what I was looking at.

I use THIS for a base hard drive then use a 4TB passport (add more according to how many cameras), with a min of 8GB RAM. Seems to work for the systems I have installed so far. My only issue was figuring the CPU stress on the (x) cameras in the system. But so far this thread has helped alot in purchasing for the next job.

Once again thanks a ton for the info!

 

[fenderman]

Iless than 10% slower than the i7-6700, and about 30% faster than the i5-6500.

The difference is greater than 10 percent confiding that the intel hd 530 in the 6700 rates at about double that of the hd4000 in the 3770...another important factor is that skylake processors and above support h.265 hardware acceleration which will inevitably come to blue iris. There are also efficiency gains with each generation...with a 3770 you are putting a 5 year old system into service as a vms..not the best idea.

 

[bobfather]

The difference is greater than 10 percent confiding that the intel hd 530 in the 6700 rates at about double that of the hd4000 in the 3770...another important factor is that skylake processors and above support h.265 hardware acceleration which will inevitably come to blue iris. There are also efficiency gains with each generation...with a 3770 you are putting a 5 year old system into service as a vms..not the best idea.

Your points are taken, but in this day and age, very few people use Blue Iris on the PC to monitor. I exclusively use the mobile app or UI2 for all functions except exporting video I need to save. If Blue Iris isn't open, the integrated graphics don't matter and won't help, so long as QuickSync is supported in both cases.

Second, at my work site we are still running Core2Quad systems that are 3 generations older than the processor I recommended. Processors, RAM, and motherboards simply don't fail after a certain point, and all of these systems for sale are past that point. As with most computer hardware, failure happens either quickly, or often not at all.

Finally, one good reason NOT to buy into a 3rd generation Intel system is that if/when parts fail, it'll be difficult to source replacements unless you're ok with buying pre-owned hardware.

The interesting thing about the computer I linked is that one could buy 2 of them, keep one as a spare and still come in cheaper than the $500 i5-6500 new from Dell.

 

[fenderman]

Your points are taken, but in this day and age, very few people use Blue Iris on the PC to monitor. I exclusively use the mobile app or UI2 for all functions except exporting video I need to save. If Blue Iris isn't open, the integrated graphics don't matter and won't help, so long as QuickSync is supported in both cases.

Second, at my work site we are still running Core2Quad systems that are 3 generations older than the processor I recommended. Processors, RAM, and motherboards simply don't fail after a certain point, and all of these systems for sale are past that point. As with most computer hardware, failure happens either quickly, or often not at all.

Finally, one good reason NOT to buy into a 3rd generation Intel system is that if/when parts fail, it'll be difficult to source replacements unless you're ok with buying pre-owned hardware.

The interesting thing about the computer I linked is that one could buy 2 of them, keep one as a spare and still come in cheaper than the $500 i5-6500 new from Dell.

My post has nothing to do with live monitoring...blue iris uses hardware acceleration to process the stream even if minimized or running as a service. (in fact most folks do use blue iris to live monitor, just as most NVR users live monitor their systems. Quicksync is not the same in each version of the processor. The better graphics improves the quicksync function.
Anyone who uses an old core2quad for blue iris is making a mistake. Those systems consume 150w under moderate load. The use would be better with a modern i5-6500 for about 300.

 

[bobfather]

I didn't mention Core2Quads as a recommendation for running Blue Iris, but as an example that a computer processor that is 10 generations old still performs well enough and reliably enough to use for the work we do.

As I said before, I'm using a 3rd generation i5 processor for 24 cameras @ 2.1mp and 10fps. The system barely breaks a sweat doing this, and it has an average CPU use of about 50%

In fact, I highly doubt that a 6th or 7th generation i5 would do any better than my setup, except consume a little less energy. Given that my processor has a 77w TDP, and the i5-6500 has a 65w TDP, I'm not at all worried.

For reliability purposes, I would recommend 2 used, working i7-3770 systems over a single i5 system any day of the week. In fact, with computer hardware, there is no real solution for reliability except backup hardware.

 

[fenderman]

I didn't mention Core2Quads as a recommendation for running Blue Iris, but as an example that a computer processor that is 10 generations old still performs well enough and reliably enough to use for the work we do.

As I said before, I'm using a 3rd generation i5 processor for 24 cameras @ 2.1mp and 10fps. The system barely breaks a sweat doing this, and it has an average CPU use of about 50%

In fact, I highly doubt that a 6th or 7th generation i5 would do any better than my setup, except consume a little less energy. Given that my processor has a 77w TDP, and the i5-6500 has a 65w TDP, I'm not at all worried.

For reliability purposes, I would recommend 2 used, working i7-3770 systems over a single i5 system any day of the week. In fact, with computer hardware, there is no real solution for reliability except backup hardware.

You should replace it asap..its a money drain.
Most folks are not looking for two systems...the i5-6500 costs roughly the same as your i7-3770..not sure why I would by a 5 year old system that will perform roughly the same with h.264 and in the future the i5-6500 will decimate the i7-3770 with h.265.
You are mistaken when you use TDP to compare efficiency. It doesnt work that way...
Its also important to note that your cpu is at 50% because you dont have the console open...

 

[bobfather]

You should replace it asap..its a money drain.
Most folks are not looking for two systems...the i5-6500 costs roughly the same as your i7-3770..not sure why I would by a 5 year old system that will perform roughly the same with h.264 and in the future the i5-6500 will decimate the i7-3770 with h.265.
You are mistaken when you use TDP to compare efficiency. It doesnt work that way...
Its also important to note that your cpu is at 50% because you dont have the console open...

1. Very few businesses are in the position to replace perfectly running, functional hardware just to save $.10 (10 cents) or less per day on electricity costs, per system.

2. The cheapest i5-6500 system on Ebay is $100 more than the i7-3770 system I linked. It's pre-owned, also.

3. Regarding H.264 vs H.265 - in my setup, replacing 24 cameras and upgrading to a 6th or 7th generation Intel processor to get H.265 support would be about $3000, and the only benefit would be higher quality at lower bitrate. If I were to spend just $500 on extra hard drives, I could up the bitrate on my cameras to the max and get equally good quality and probably higher recording capacity than a person using H.265 on a single large drive.

4. Because I'm curious, I opened the interface. UI2 now reports 58% average CPU use, instead of 50% with the interface closed. Still barely breaking a sweat.

I think this is an important discussion because it's a common belief on this board that only new hardware will suffice for large IP cam systems. Well, I'm here with one of the largest systems on this board I'm aware of, and I'm telling you and everyone else that 5 year old hardware will run Blue Iris just fine, and way cheaper than newer hardware will.

 

[Sammy2]

Interesting discussion. I can see both points. I'm all about the best cost effective solution. In a lot of cases i7's are overkill, IMHO. As far as TDP goes, I don't think we're talking about power efficiency here but rather about heat tolerance so an older system may use more power and generate more heat but it is designed to tolerate that heat to get the job done. If you have a system paid for and don't need a new one there's no point of putting out hundreds of dollars to get more efficient, even if it will pay for itself. It isn't just the cost of the parts, but the effort to assemble the machine and set up the software as well. If you're shopping now, you have to balance your budget with what you really need and expect to do. I posted in another thread about dual purposing my i5 4670k Devil's Canyon with 16Gb RAM for running Blue Iris Server. This has an outlay of $0 right now and it works very well. I run other apps as part of this setup which could bork the video recordings but I'm not sure it really will. This computer runs for days, weeks and months on end with an occasional reboot but is very stable. If I go to add another just for Blue Iris, I'll probably go with a 6ht or 7th gen i5... Cost vs Benefit.

 

[fenderman]

1. Very few businesses are in the position to replace perfectly running, functional hardware just to save $.10 (10 cents) or less per day on electricity costs, per system.

2. The cheapest i5-6500 system on Ebay is $100 more than the i7-3770 system I linked. It's pre-owned, also.

3. Regarding H.264 vs H.265 - in my setup, replacing 24 cameras and upgrading to a 6th or 7th generation Intel processor to get H.265 support would be about $3000, and the only benefit would be higher quality at lower bitrate. If I were to spend just $500 on extra hard drives, I could up the bitrate on my cameras to the max and get equally good quality and probably higher recording capacity than a person using H.265 on a single large drive.

4. Because I'm curious, I opened the interface. UI2 now reports 58% average CPU use, instead of 50% with the interface closed. Still barely breaking a sweat.

I think this is an important discussion because it's a common belief on this board that only new hardware will suffice for large IP cam systems. Well, I'm here with one of the largest systems on this board I'm aware of, and I'm telling you and everyone else that 5 year old hardware will run Blue Iris just fine, and way cheaper than newer hardware will.

1) It is NOT 10 cents per day this is a common misconception. Those business need a better manager. If your rate is low, say 10 cents a kwh, it costs you 131 PER YEAR to run it. If you live in the northeast or west coast where rates are 20c a kwh+ (more for businesses) then you are looking at 262 per year. A similar efficient system will consume about 25w under the same load.
Basically the business is supporting the electric company vs buying a new system or even a second third gen system.
2)i5-6500 systems are often available for 300. In fact the other day there was a dell optiplex 5040 tower with a 8gb of memory 256GB ssd an i5-6500 with a 310 buy it now/best offer price. Most of these systems are NOT used. They are returns. I routinely buy hp elitedesks that have an in service date a month or two before my purchase date. Your system after the memory upgrade is 250 (also consider that its optimal to use matching sticks of memory.) and finally has zero warranty.
3. You case is not every ones case. they may already have the h.265 cameras or buying new cams which support h.265.
4. 60 percent constant load is high. considering that there is more load when recording/playback and viewing video remotely. At those high loads energy consumption spikes as well. You have also set your cams to 10fps, which is fine, but many users want more. I know its not needed, but they want what they want.

 

[zero-degrees]

Fender forgot #5...

Sorry.... Busy day, didn't get my Reddit troll fix and apparently IPCT is paying the price tonight :-/

 

[bobfather]

1) It is NOT 10 cents per day this is a common misconception. Those business need a better manager. If your rate is low, say 10 cents a kwh, it costs you 131 PER YEAR to run it. If you live in the northeast or west coast where rates are 20c a kwh+ (more for businesses) then you are looking at 262 per year. A similar efficient system will consume about 25w under the same load.
Basically the business is supporting the electric company vs buying a new system or even a second third gen system.
2)i5-6500 systems are often available for 300. In fact the other day there was a dell optiplex 5040 tower with a 8gb of memory 256GB ssd an i5-6500 with a 310 buy it now/best offer price. Most of these systems are NOT used. They are returns. I routinely buy hp elitedesks that have an in service date a month or two before my purchase date. Your system after the memory upgrade is 250 (also consider that its optimal to use matching sticks of memory.) and finally has zero warranty.
3. You case is not every ones case. they may already have the h.265 cameras or buying new cams which support h.265.
4. 60 percent constant load is high. considering that there is more load when recording/playback and viewing video remotely. At those high loads energy consumption spikes as well. You have also set your cams to 10fps, which is fine, but many users want more. I know its not needed, but they want what they want.

Indeed, my residential rate is a bit less than 9 cents to 10.8 cents per kwh. At those prices, a 120w i7 system vs a 60w i5 system is about a $.13 to $.15 cent cost difference, per day. So an i7 is $55 more expensive to run each year.

However, the i7 has a lot more power and will support more cameras than the i5. Since my Blue Iris setup unexpectedly went from 18 to 24 cameras recently, this extra power could be the difference between needing to spend even more money to upgrade an i5 to an i7, or even buy a second i5 system to split the load among 2 Blue Iris installations.

Setting the debate over power efficiency aside for a moment, I'd like to reiterate my point that old hardware is fine for Blue Iris. The i5-6500 is a fine processor that will support many cameras, but in large systems you'd be better off with more processing power than the i5 can provide.

Finally, to drive home that Intel hasn't made anywhere near the kinds of leaps and gains you think regarding energy efficiency, here's a handy link comparing the 3rd gen i7 to the 6th gen i7. The 3rd gen consumes less energy, yet only performs about 5% slower.

 

[fenderman]

Indeed, my residential rate is a bit less than 9 cents to 10.8 cents per kwh. At those prices, a 120w i7 system vs a 60w i5 system is about a $.13 to $.15 cent cost difference, per day. So an i7 is $55 more expensive to run each year.

However, the i7 has a lot more power and will support more cameras than the i5. Since my Blue Iris setup unexpectedly went from 18 to 24 cameras recently, this extra power could be the difference between needing to spend even more money to upgrade an i5 to an i7, or even buy a second i5 system to split the load among 2 Blue Iris installations.

Setting the debate over power efficiency aside for a moment, I'd like to reiterate my point that old hardware is fine for Blue Iris. The i5-6500 is a fine processor that will support many cameras, but in large systems you'd be better off with more processing power than the i5 can provide.

Finally, to drive home that Intel hasn't made anywhere near the kinds of leaps and gains you think regarding energy efficiency, here's a handy link comparing the 3rd gen i7 to the 6th gen i7. The 3rd gen consumes less energy, yet only performs about 5% slower.

Again you are making improper assumptions...the i5-6500 will likely consume 25w under the same load. You mention i7 but before you stated it was a core2quad. Those consume at least 150w under minimal load and more under heavy loads.
Not sure where you are getting 120w for an i7, even ivy bridge i7's consume way less than that...they only i7 powerhogs were first generation.
Old hardware is STUPID for blue iris. Case in point, your core2quad that you run at your business. Costs you more to run that than to replace it. Read my post again.
Your recommendation for a 5 year old i7-3770 to save 50 dollars is silly. You are WRONG about using an old i7 vs a newer i5....the intel HD is double as powerful. You have to be an idiot to buy a 5 year old system vs a new system that will perform better in many instances and comes with a 3 year next business day warranty.
That link is full of misinformation. I have personally tested many systems (I run 20+ blue iris setups) as well as 50+ office desktops....those graphs only look at the K intel processors not the standard processors.

 

[bobfather]

You're not reading my posts closely, and you're getting confused.

I never stated I ran a C2Q for Blue Iris. I always stated I used a 3rd gen i5, and I recommended buying a 3rd gen i7 for Blue Iris.

120w from the wall is right for a full computer with an i7 under 100% load. 60w for an i5-6500. A lot less for either system at less than full load.

The K processors are nearly identical to non-K's in performance and power consumption when they're running at stock voltage, which they are in those graphs.

Finally, you don't have to be an idiot to pay $220 for a computer that can run 30 cameras. You just have to be a normal person who has a specific need and a conservative budget.

What is idiotic is your name calling and general derision for points of view that aren't your own. Reign it in some and have a normal discussion like a regular person.

 

[fenderman]

You're not reading my posts closely, and you're getting confused.

I never stated I ran a C2Q for Blue Iris. I always stated I used a 3rd gen i5, and I recommended buying a 3rd gen i7 for Blue Iris.

120w from the wall is right for a full computer with an i7 under 100% load. 60w for an i5-6500. A lot less for either system at less than full load.

The K processors are nearly identical to non-K's in performance and power consumption when they're running at stock voltage, which they are in those graphs.

Finally, you don't have to be an idiot to pay $220 for a computer that can run 30 cameras. You just have to be a normal person who has a specific need and a conservative budget.

What is idiotic is your name calling and general derision for points of view that aren't your own. Reign it in some and have a normal discussion like a regular person.

I am not confused at all. You need to reread my reply. I will cite this time so you are not confused.
You stated that your office used a core2quad. That is STUPID. See post #9
I stated that the system should be replaced because its wasting more money that a replacement. Post #12.
You stated that the savings would only be 10 cents a day. That is not correct.
You magically bring up i7's...Any i7 other than first gen will not draw 120w even under 100 percent load. Even if that was true why in the world would you compare the energy used at 100 percent loads???
The k processors are not identical. Those numbers are way off. I have personally tested my systems.
Finally, you again misstated what I said and you purposely omitted the cost of extra memory. That system cannot run 30 cameras such as yours it would run way too high cpu.
I said you have to be an idiot to pay 250 (system + memory) for a 5+ year old pc, when you can buy a practically NEW system for 300 that will perform BETTER and MUCH better with modern h.265 cameras when support is implemented...and if patient 310 can get you a 256gb ssd with that system.
Hell if you are patient you can do even better. The system I am typing this from is an hp elitedesk i7-6700 purchased on ebay with using Buy it now, 8gb memory, 256gb hard drive and 3 year warranty. Price =400. Stop being stupid and recommending users put 5 year old systems into service to save 50 bux...its just dumb.
I dont need your advice on how to respond on my own forum. You post idiotic advice you will get called out. You lack basic mathematical skills to calculate power consumption.