2 Thieves in 6 months: IP Cam Recommendations

[windguy]

Sorry this happened to you and your family. Nice looking place, cars too.
Videos are helpful in figuring out what is going on.
The last video, Thief 2 Front, doesn't have a time stamp.
Two intrusions in five months is a lot. They will be back or others.
What exactly is your objective with the security system? Keeping them out of the house or compound?
Improving your cameras is not going to stop thieves from hopping the wall (pretty easy to do) and entering your compound.
Will you still feel violated with thieves doing this or should your objective be to keep them outside the confines of your walls/gates?
Just asking questions to figure out where you want to stop the intrusion.
I would eliminate or hide whatever button they used to open the gate.
If this was my place I would concentrate my efforts to reinforce the perimeter to prevent someone from easily hopping the wall. The gates are beefy but not the walls.
And if the wall perimeter was penetrated, then your security system will detect that and provide a level of deterrence (sound, lights).
Obviously a pair of dobermans would make this solution easy peasy.
Sorry I don't have any answers. I hope you can figure this out to give you peace of mind. Good luck!

 

[CCTVCam]

Wow you have an amazingly nice property. You're very lucky, and very lucky to be able to afford such an extensive security system.

I'd like to make a few suggestions:

1. You can see in camera 1 where the thieves are coming over the wall:



I'd consider a camera zoomed in specifically on this point with the total field of view no wider than the red marks. ie. make this a camera dedicated purely to obtaining a face shot of the guy coming over the wall. This will ensure you get a nice tight shot and also has the advantage that the thief has to look up in order to assess the ground in front to clear the wall negating the effect of the hoodie and making a full face shot more likely. A slightly lower camera mounting point may also help here.

2. I second the idea of having external audio with maybe a message along the lines of "We have called the police and ....." Insert whatever threats are legal/ appropriate in your jurisdiction. I'm in the UK so we can only threaten to beat them with feather dusters. You could obviously add "our armed security guards are on their way out" or whatever was legal / appropriate.

3. If it's legal where you are you could add a few blue strobes along the front of the property (flat panel LED ones) that trigger along with the audio - again check the legality of blue strobes in the US. Pyschologically, having strobing blue lights may trigger flight from the suspect associating the lights with the police lights. Be aware however, they may impact your video quality so they are a double edged sword.

4. Again subject to legality in your jurisdiction, alarm mines are legal in some jurisdictions. They fire a shotgun blank. These may be impossble to fit in the traditional manner due to your children as children and trip wires aren't compatible, and there's no garden between your drive and the wall, but I don't think it would be that difficult to trigger them by alternative means eg a wirelessly triggered solenoid pulling the pin instead of the trip wire. Note even if legal this one might cause issues with the Police as the neighbours will almost certainly report "shots fired" to the police. An alternative is a shotgun blank fired yourself, but I doubt you really want to put yourself or your wife in the firing line especially if firing blanks. I know it's hard for me to say from my juirisdiction where guns for self defence are illegal, but personally I would not go out to confront intruders. Rather I'd take a defensive position in the home ready to defend myself if they actually came into my home. Alternatively, you could go for a safe room in that scenario and leave the clean up to the police should they get inside. On a side note here, does anyone ever give consideration to building a defensive position in their homes opposite the door? Something with hidden ar500 refinforcement?

5. A large guard dog / dogs are a great suggestion subject to legality. Not many casual burglars are going to jump a fence into a pool of alsations / rottweillers. Professionals maybe more of a problem as the can tackle the dogs in various ways. Drugs, poison etc. How likely the latter is outside of hollywood, I don't know.

6. In terms of perimeter protection, very difficult unless you want to visually impact your property. You could swap the hedges out for something prickly and grow them a bit above the wall height forcing the thief to cross them. If you own any land outside the wall, you could eg plant firethorn or similar on the outside making the wall difficult to scale, athough then they may simply come over the gates!

7. You could, again subject to local laws on permissibility and height of mounting, look into having decorative railings fixed on top of your wall that are electrified. Might be a compromise between aesthetics and functionality. Aagin, as this is a celebrity / high earner type feature, I know little about this beyond experience of an electric fence around my pond -the right fence really hurts and you won't touch it a 2nd time!

8. Signage. Maybe some signs. "Guard dogs", "Armed Guards on premises 24/7" (great sign in combination with alarm mines) etc on the outside of your wall. It's a shame to spoil the aesthetics but if the situation is really becoming that bad then ....

Utimately, once you go beyond just cctv, it's going to be a balance between legality, security and aethetics in my opinion.

 

[Dr Noisewater]

@bigredfish: I actually haven't even zoomed these cameras at all yet to be honest. Last night I played around with the exposure and other settings. I couldn't get much improvement unfortunately, I'm sure it's my novice approach. It was nothing like your test videos of the 5442 that you posted in another thread.

The distance from the cameras in the video to the wall area in question is about 35-45ft max. I am thinking of replacing 1 camera in the current location (NI model) and then put the variable focus 5442 below it so that it is lower. What do you think about this idea?

@wittaj - I am not sure I could get the angle on the license plates with the plants/trees/walls and gates. I need to take another look at this, I like the idea however.

@windguy: Thief 2 Front was at 10:21pm in the evening, brass balls on the guy. I noticed that he hit at least 5-10 other homes in the same few days according to the neighbors who use the Ring app. They haven't caught the guys yet according to the Police Chief. I'm doubtful but it would be nice...

My intentions are to keep them from going over the wall. I looked at electric wire but it appears that homeowner liability comes into question. I could add additional decorative fencing about 18" tall on that section of the wall with spear tips. It would match everything else so it will look the part. I am going to get some estimates for this.

I did order some 12ga trip wires with blanks. I am going to set up 2 of these on the top of the wall. I believe I can make it tricky to get over without moving the wire setting off the primer cap. I bet that will require a change of pants should someone set it off. I'll be able to hear that before anything else.

Thief 1 grabbed my garage door remote out of the car which has 4 buttons on it. It controlled the gates and garage doors. I removed those from each car now. That was an "oh shit moment" for me... Never again.

I wont utilize the dogs, I am an animal lover and I would never leave them outside 24/7. Plus I have small kids/babies and that can be tricky.

 

[bigredfish]

Yeah, the 5231 is a great camera and was king of the sub $500 low light cams up until 12-18 months ago. Not much you can do to improve what you have with them, its still a nice image. But the 5442 steps up to 4MP which you will notice, and the 1/1,8" sensor they use will give you 50% or so more light to work with.

The fixed lens NI model (3.6mm) wont have enough detail at 40ft for facial ID. I would use the variable focus model for that. I'm talking about the shot in videos #1,2, and 4 where the guy comes over the wall.

The NI would replace the one looking straight nose-on at the white Rolls - video #5

 

[Dr Noisewater]

Yeah, the 5231 is a great camera and was king of the sub $500 low light cams up until 12-18 months ago. Not much you can do to improve what you have with them, its still a nice image. But the 5442 steps up to 4MP which you will notice, and the 1/1,8" sensor they use will give you 50% or so more light to work with.

The fixed lens NI model (3.6mm) wont have enough detail at 40ft for facial ID. I would use the variable focus model for that. I'm talking about the shot in videos #1,2, and 4 where the guy comes over the wall.

The NI would replace the one looking straight nose-on at the white Rolls - video #5

What about the 7442 bullet that was mentioned previous, would that be better for facial ID at 40ft? Andy says it costs a bit more, around $490 or so but if its worth it then ill go that route.

 

[bigredfish]

Yes, the 7442 is basically the 5442 on steroids. Mostly AI stuff like Face Recognition (still not quite Star trek but getting there) same sensor, but it will provide some more AI capability and a even better low light capability per specs.
Basically the 5442 NI low light specs in a variable focus +more AI. So yeah, King of the Hill.

IPC-HFW7442H-ZFR

IPC-HFW7442H-ZFR

www.dahuasecurity.com

IPC-HFW7442H-ZFR (Face Recognition)

https://www.dahuasecurity.com/products/All-Products/Network-Cameras/WizMind-Series/7-Series/4MP/IPC-HFW7442H-Z

IPC-HFW7442H-Z (Face Detection)

 

[samplenhold]

I am not sure I could get the angle on the license plates with the plants/trees/walls and gates

You would have to put those cams outside your gates. And this would probably be well worth it.

The feeling of being violated is hard to overcome. But consider this. If you did not have gates on your driveway and someone just walked up the driveway and checked the car doors, would you still have that same feeling? No one even attempted to enter your home, right? How many times has this happened and how long have you lived there? Those are the questions that should help drive your decisions on what actions to take.

Sure you could go top heavy and get dogs, trip wire shotgun shells, flashing lights and blaring speakers. But is all that really necessary? Your home alarm served you well. Make it a point to lock the car doors. Check every night as part of a routine. Focus your cams at strategic points of entry, like that wall where they came over. Maybe like @CCTVCam stated plant some really nasty bushes with big thorns just on the inside of that wall. That would give you DNA samples.

 

[windguy]

@Dr Noisewater - Sounds like you have some good ideas. That's the great part with having security camera. You can see what the heck is going on.

My point about the time stamp on that one camera is something you should add to the camera settings for archive purposes.

How did Thief 1 get into the compound?
Interesting that this perp is walking around slowly and nonchalantly until he got scared off, then he panicked.

Thief 2 scaled that wall way too easily. I'd like to see a pic of that wall from the outside. He went right for that easy spot like he cased the place ahead of time. They knew where to park as well. Interesting this perp is moving around crouched low, like that really matters. He got scared off pretty quickly. Why? He never door checked the black SUV. Why?

The one thing that was consistent between the two perps is that something eventually scared them with a flight response. If you can move that same deterrent to the perimeter then you might have a more secure solution. Keep us posted.

 

[Dr Noisewater]

@bigredfish: Ok that helps me to organize the plans much better. It makes sense now.

@samplenhold: I attached a video from the Front Porch angle from Thief #1. You can now see him exit the car with the garage remote and then enter the garage. You can hear how nasty the siren sounds and of course the lights at 100% upon the trigger. My little ankle biter dogs heard it as well. Who knows, he might have tried to get in the house next.



Right after this event, I installed a steel reinforced door from the garage to the main house. I highly doubt it will cave under pressure, at least not without me on the other side waiting. I do agree with you, I am still processing/weighing all the options and sort of working it out here with you all to be clear on things. Its all about the kids as I mentioned in my first post, I prefer to be proactive.

@windguy: Thief 1 - I attached an image of the outside of the wall in question. Its clearly the weak spot on the property. He was on a bike, casing the house from across the street. He was leaning on the light pole across the street staring for about 10 minutes before hand. He also checked the neighbors car doors prior to mine.

 

[Dr Noisewater]

Wow you have an amazingly nice property. You're very lucky, and very lucky to be able to afford such an extensive security system.

I'd like to make a few suggestions:

1. You can see in camera 1 where the thieves are coming over the wall:

View attachment 72048

I'd consider a camera zoomed in specifically on this point with the total field of view no wider than the red marks. ie. make this a camera dedicated purely to obtaining a face shot of the guy coming over the wall. This will ensure you get a nice tight shot and also has the advantage that the thief has to look up in order to assess the ground in front to clear the wall negating the effect of the hoodie and making a full face shot more likely. A slightly lower camera mounting point may also help here.

2. I second the idea of having external audio with maybe a message along the lines of "We have called the police and ....." Insert whatever threats are legal/ appropriate in your jurisdiction. I'm in the UK so we can only threaten to beat them with feather dusters. You could obviously add "our armed security guards are on their way out" or whatever was legal / appropriate.

3. If it's legal where you are you could add a few blue strobes along the front of the property (flat panel LED ones) that trigger along with the audio - again check the legality of blue strobes in the US. Pyschologically, having strobing blue lights may trigger flight from the suspect associating the lights with the police lights. Be aware however, they may impact your video quality so they are a double edged sword.

4. Again subject to legality in your jurisdiction, alarm mines are legal in some jurisdictions. They fire a shotgun blank. These may be impossble to fit in the traditional manner due to your children as children and trip wires aren't compatible, and there's no garden between your drive and the wall, but I don't think it would be that difficult to trigger them by alternative means eg a wirelessly triggered solenoid pulling the pin instead of the trip wire. Note even if legal this one might cause issues with the Police as the neighbours will almost certainly report "shots fired" to the police. An alternative is a shotgun blank fired yourself, but I doubt you really want to put yourself or your wife in the firing line especially if firing blanks. I know it's hard for me to say from my juirisdiction where guns for self defence are illegal, but personally I would not go out to confront intruders. Rather I'd take a defensive position in the home ready to defend myself if they actually came into my home. Alternatively, you could go for a safe room in that scenario and leave the clean up to the police should they get inside. On a side note here, does anyone ever give consideration to building a defensive position in their homes opposite the door? Something with hidden ar500 refinforcement?

5. A large guard dog / dogs are a great suggestion subject to legality. Not many casual burglars are going to jump a fence into a pool of alsations / rottweillers. Professionals maybe more of a problem as the can tackle the dogs in various ways. Drugs, poison etc. How likely the latter is outside of hollywood, I don't know.

6. In terms of perimeter protection, very difficult unless you want to visually impact your property. You could swap the hedges out for something prickly and grow them a bit above the wall height forcing the thief to cross them. If you own any land outside the wall, you could eg plant firethorn or similar on the outside making the wall difficult to scale, athough then they may simply come over the gates!

7. You could, again subject to local laws on permissibility and height of mounting, look into having decorative railings fixed on top of your wall that are electrified. Might be a compromise between aesthetics and functionality. Aagin, as this is a celebrity / high earner type feature, I know little about this beyond experience of an electric fence around my pond -the right fence really hurts and you won't touch it a 2nd time!

8. Signage. Maybe some signs. "Guard dogs", "Armed Guards on premises 24/7" (great sign in combination with alarm mines) etc on the outside of your wall. It's a shame to spoil the aesthetics but if the situation is really becoming that bad then ....

Utimately, once you go beyond just cctv, it's going to be a balance between legality, security and aethetics in my opinion.

Thank you for all the well thought out ideas! I know what you mean about the balance between legality, security and aesthetics. One could easily go overboard to some extent. I know I cannot post signage, that isnt allowed in the community and would be a violation. They are really picky about that stuff. The 2 neighbors across the street have 24/7 security sitting at the end of the driveways. Now I think I know why. The safe room is something that I never thought about, I have some research to do as I can see lots of value in that idea.
I also like the strobe light idea. I believe that would make even the hardest criminal disoriented and nervous. All good points, thank you

 

[windguy]

@Dr Noisewater - thanks for the pic. Shows how easy it is to get on top of that wall. I guess you have two options. Add ironwork, which can get expensive. Would match your gates but might look more fortress like. Could also add shrubs to block access and visibility from the street. Would give a softer look and add some privacy but requires maintenance. I think the more deterrents you add will prevent the type of thieves who just want a quick in and out grab. Your more seasoned house thief would be on another level, but I think you've already got that part well covered. I think you're pretty close, just need to fine tune things. BTW - the arched windows and detail work on the house are really nice. Interesting architecture, very European looking.

 

[CCTVCam]

Thank you for all the well thought out ideas! I know what you mean about the balance between legality, security and aesthetics. One could easily go overboard to some extent. I know I cannot post signage, that isnt allowed in the community and would be a violation. They are really picky about that stuff. The 2 neighbors across the street have 24/7 security sitting at the end of the driveways. Now I think I know why. The safe room is something that I never thought about, I have some research to do as I can see lots of value in that idea.
I also like the strobe light idea. I believe that would make even the hardest criminal disoriented and nervous. All good points, thank you

That photo of the outside of your wall is very helpful. Remember in order for someone to scale a wall, they 1st need to walk up to the base to get onto it. If you own the grassed area outside the wall, you could plant something like Berberis at the base of the wall and along it's length. Berberis grows about 3ft high / wide and has very large sharp spines for a lot of the year (early in the year they can be soft and small on new growth so not total year around protection). However, failing it growing in your location or if you want a different shrub, there are many out there that also have nasty spines.

Berberis can look like this untrimmed:



or this is manicured:




and it has spines like this for at least some of the year:



I'm sure if you don't like it or if it won't grow where you are there are other bushes with a similar function.

The only bad aspect to protecting the wall is they may just climb the gates. However, the harder it becomes to gain access, and escape, the less likely they are to try.

BTW on the subject of a fence on top of the wall. Un-electrified, I think you'd find they'd just climb onto the wall step over the 18 inch fence and then jump down as they do currently. That said, I know electriifcation is not going to be free from legal issues and isn't as easy as simply clamping an engeriser to a fence as energisers work in a certain way and so require the electrified part ie fence to be insulated from the ground and require a ground contact on the wall for the intruder to complete the circuit. It was an extreme suggestion, but oneI've offered out before where legal as theyc an be effective. Touching the one around my pond is like being hit by a truck, literally, 10 minutes of feeling like Tyson punched you in the chest.

 

[rahhazar]

I would say throwing few grands for security is important specially in a good house like yours with luxury cars open to the public.

1: get a licence plate recognition camera. ( most of these street thugs wont know if it is a LPR camera ) you may have a better chance on reading their license plate.
2: get a PTZ with audio speaker camera when some one enters your property it tracks their movement and spits out the audio that way the intrude runs off.

 

[catcamstar]

I like the suggestion of "thorned" plants (or barbed wire ).

However, you might think about the "bigger" picture. You can't indeed "stick out" some camera's on your outside walls, they will be knocked off quickly (vandalised) or stolen. My suggestion would be - under condition everyone is open and eager to it! - if your neighbors (left/right/across-the-street are also concerned about THEIR security, you can then point camera's to each others property. For example, at my place, I've got this HFW-Z5 camera, looking downwards my driveway (it serves as LPR), but it also gets a nice view on my neighbors place. He doesn't have access to my cams, nor am I forwarding videos, however, in case there went something wrong, he knows that I got that footage too (and has no problem with it whatsoever) and can ask for it. If your neighbor films his "border" (with your wall on it) with some IVS tripwire, at least, if your system detects something, you could go and inspect those videos. If you really want to go high-tech, you could open VPN tunnels to one and each other and expose some feeds to each other so your NVR can grab Camera_X (and not Camera_Y) from their IPC system. But you need trust, respect and no conspiracy around such a construction, plus a high(er) protected network security (eg. limitation on cam access, but also general network eg you cannot access their NAS).

Happy camming!
CC

 

[Ckb3]

For a nice shrub/hedge i would look into a Bougainvillea. They have beautiful flowers and deadly thorns and are common in florida (where it looks like your home is). You could plant inside your wall area and prune up so if a kids ball goes under them it will still be safe to grab it without worry of a thorn stabbing them.

 

[mat200]

Perhaps a camera behind the light post / pedestal to camera images of those hoping the wall? HOA should not care on that...

 

[crw030]

Definitely some prickly bushes, possibly on the outside to deter and on the inside for them to land in might be a nice deterrent.

 

[catcamstar]

Definitely some prickly bushes, possibly on the outside to deter and on the inside for them to land in might be a nice deterrent.

Landmines!

Preferably in an unknown world language, as you never know these perks origin

 

[bigredfish]

 

[rmalbers]

Raise the fence higher, a little more, if it's steel they can weld another section on top.