8MP Starlight+
- Thread starter Ace789
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I got mine too yesterday. Not much time to play with it, but from first impressions it's certainly brighter and with even less noise than the IMX291.
I captured two snapshots to give you a basic idea of how it compares to the IMX291 when shutter/gain/aperture are all the same:
Left: IPC-HFW5231E-Z12, shutter 1/120, iris wide open (F1.4 according to spec), gain is set to 40, 3D noise is off.
Right: IPC-HF8835F, shutter 1/120, Canon EF 50mm F1.4 wide open with adapter, gain is set to 40, 3D noise is off.
The HF8835 is intentionally less zoomed in, the idea was that the PPF should be the same, but I haven't measured to make sure it actually is
I captured two snapshots to give you a basic idea of how it compares to the IMX291 when shutter/gain/aperture are all the same:
Left: IPC-HFW5231E-Z12, shutter 1/120, iris wide open (F1.4 according to spec), gain is set to 40, 3D noise is off.
Right: IPC-HF8835F, shutter 1/120, Canon EF 50mm F1.4 wide open with adapter, gain is set to 40, 3D noise is off.
The HF8835 is intentionally less zoomed in, the idea was that the PPF should be the same, but I haven't measured to make sure it actually is
flynreelow
Known around here
- Dec 12, 2016
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I got mine too yesterday. Not much time to play with it, but from first impressions it's certainly brighter and with even less noise than the IMX291.
I captured two snapshots to give you a basic idea of how it compares to the IMX291 when shutter/gain/aperture are all the same:
View attachment 24515 View attachment 24516
Left: IPC-HFW5231E-Z12, shutter 1/120, iris wide open (F1.4 according to spec), gain is set to 40, 3D noise is off.
Right: IPC-HF8835F, shutter 1/120, Canon EF 50mm F1.4 wide open with adapter, gain is set to 40, 3D noise is off.
The HF8835 is intentionally less zoomed in, the idea was that the PPF should be the same, but I haven't measured to make sure it actually is
would love to see some video samples.....
I haven't taken it outside yet, just tested it in a rather dark room. I don't have an enclosure for it yet, but I just realized it fits my camera tripod, so I'll take it outside later tonight for some experimentation.
flynreelow
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Dahua night time test with 20mm f/1.7 pancake lens. The camera makes it look a lot brighter than it really is.
For Comparison this is replacing a 5MP Bosch Dinion Starlight 8000 MP with P-Iris Lens. The camera is sitting on top of a ladder so the perspective and angle is a bit different. I did not refocus the unit so it could be slightly out of focus.
Here's what the Iphone 7 Plus sees in video
Here's what the lighting is in real life
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xyvyx
Getting the hang of it
- Jun 8, 2017
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hmm... this seems to be the only M43 mount lens on the Dahua website:
PFL085-J12M - Dahua Technology
F2.8 and 8.5mm, manual focus & iris.
@EMPIRETECANDY Any idea what this lens would cost?
Their accessory list was updated too and it shows this as a HF2 "shape" camera which would fit into most of their PFH610 housings. Those seem to be in all different flavors of POE and IR features... no idea how much those cost either.
PFL085-J12M - Dahua Technology
F2.8 and 8.5mm, manual focus & iris.
@EMPIRETECANDY Any idea what this lens would cost?
Their accessory list was updated too and it shows this as a HF2 "shape" camera which would fit into most of their PFH610 housings. Those seem to be in all different flavors of POE and IR features... no idea how much those cost either.
I'm not sure why the youtube compression is so bad, the videos look far worse on youtube. Also the Dahua was uploaded as 4k@25fps but is somehow showing as 1080p at 60fps.
I turned off all the lights to see how it would work with my external IR illuminator but it doesn't seem to trigger the IR cut filter when I try and change the profile to B&W or switch to auto. I'll have to do more testing, but I'm going to keep this in color mode 24/7.
@xyvyx I honestly wouldn't bother with the dahua lenses unless they were IR corrected and really good. There's a wide range of micro 43 lenses on the market from zooms to primes from Olympus and Panasonic that should meet most needs. With a manual Iris on the dahua lenses, that's a tough balance between too much light during the day and not enough at night.
Pick any existing AF m43 lens and get auto or manual aperture and selective focus and the ability to refocus.
@xyvyx I honestly wouldn't bother with the dahua lenses unless they were IR corrected and really good. There's a wide range of micro 43 lenses on the market from zooms to primes from Olympus and Panasonic that should meet most needs. With a manual Iris on the dahua lenses, that's a tough balance between too much light during the day and not enough at night.
Pick any existing AF m43 lens and get auto or manual aperture and selective focus and the ability to refocus.
I had the same experience when I tried using IR.
Agreed about the Dahua lenses. I originally picked up a Rokinon 12mm F2.0 lens, but since I haven't opened it yet I think I'll return it and get something with auto focus and electronic iris control since it actually works with the camera. There was a 17mm F1.7 that looks interesting.
Agreed about the Dahua lenses. I originally picked up a Rokinon 12mm F2.0 lens, but since I haven't opened it yet I think I'll return it and get something with auto focus and electronic iris control since it actually works with the camera. There was a 17mm F1.7 that looks interesting.
It's available in 4K @ 60FPS now.
Did you play with any of the settings, or are you running in auto? When I first watch the video on my phone your face was very close to being over exposed, but it does look better on my PC monitor.
Did you play with any of the settings, or are you running in auto? When I first watch the video on my phone your face was very close to being over exposed, but it does look better on my PC monitor.
Yeah, my face is overexposed a bit the closer i get to the camera. I may try manual and set the gain to around 50-75 and change the white balance. I think when it's on auto it boosts the gain to 100. The white balance is very much neutral 4000-5000k white, however the lighting in the video is more like 2700-3000k in temperature.
I was going to pair mine with a visible light illuminator. I bought a S-SG15-45-BC-W from Scene Electronics, but it's just too much of a good thing and too bright to walk towards On the bright side, it did let me run my existing Starlight IPC-HFW8331E-Z5 in 1/200 with the gain set to 30 or less in the same spot I plan to use this camera. Ordered a 300 lumens illuminator too to test with as I think even just a tiny bit of directional light will do very well with this camera.
@xyvyx I ordered a DH-PFH610N from B&H for $56 including shipping. I wasn't entirely sure if this camera would fit or not, but for $50 I figured I'd just try. I went with the non IR version as I plan to run this in color 24/7.
On the bright side, it did let me run my existing Starlight IPC-HFW8331E-Z5 in 1/200 with the gain set to 30 or less in the same spot I plan to use this camera. Ordered a 300 lumens illuminator too to test with as I think even just a tiny bit of directional light will do very well with this camera.@xyvyx I ordered a DH-PFH610N from B&H for $56 including shipping. I wasn't entirely sure if this camera would fit or not, but for $50 I figured I'd just try. I went with the non IR version as I plan to run this in color 24/7.
CCTVCam
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- Sep 25, 2017
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The white balance is one of the things you first notice. It's very close to being natural whereas the Bosch is decidedly unbalanced under artificial lighting (as most cameras generally (not necessarily talking CCTV) are in artificial light with white balance at auto).
I'm not sure the white balance is responsible for the face being over exposed though. Surely that's just down to the gain / aperture. White balance should only really affect the colour balance ie tone, not exposure. One thing you could try, is increasing the shutter speed a little. That will address the issue of slight motion blur noted below and will darken the image provided the gain is not set to auto as less light will get in. That may address the overblown face / slight motion blur at the expense of a slightly darker picture.
Something other aspects that stand out in the 8335 are the lack of noise in the picture, vastly increased sharpness and detail 8mp compared to 8mp (?), and that the 8335F appears to be running a faster shutter speed due to it's superior night vision. The latter to me is particularly apparent when you watch the figure walk past the camera / bushes at the start of each sequence. There's a marked blur / trail behind the figure with the Bosch and he's transparent (!) - you can see the bushes through him. (I'm guessing what's happening here is these are maybe composite frames on the Bosch - maybe 60fps > 30fps and composited rather than discarded (?), and 1 frame has the figure in it and the other doesn't). With the 8335, there's still a little blur on movement, but the figure appears less transparent - bit difficult to tell if it's transparency or lens reflection on the 8335 as it's far more slight. However, the 8335 is far superior in my opinion and there's definitely less motion blur.
The 8335 has to be the way forward, if only they can get the price down and maybe get it into a turret and a ptz.
@EMPIRETECANDY Can you check if the camera is supposed to be IR sensitive or not? IR makes no difference in B&W mode and there is not cut filter sound. Where I plan to use it, I will run 24/7 in color, but there were a few things I would have wanted to try if it was IR sensitive
xyvyx
Getting the hang of it
- Jun 8, 2017
- 40
- 44
The A&E docs mention a mechanical day/night IR cut filter... I wonder if it has to be triggered some other way!? Or maybe the software is just broken or lens-dependent.
I was at BestBuy earlier this evening and they had several M43 lenses on sale. I saw this Panasonic one w/ a f/1.7:
Panasonic - Lumix G 25mm f/1.7 ASPH. Lens For Micro Four Thirds - Black
Which would be just a bit more narrow than what shokunin used in his tests, eh?
The guy at the store also suggested this place to rent some more lenses to test: https://aperturent.com/
I haven't committed to ordering one of these cameras, but I'm pretty fascinated by the sensitivity. I guess I should get my SD65F mounted first before I consider any other toys
I was at BestBuy earlier this evening and they had several M43 lenses on sale. I saw this Panasonic one w/ a f/1.7:
Panasonic - Lumix G 25mm f/1.7 ASPH. Lens For Micro Four Thirds - Black
Which would be just a bit more narrow than what shokunin used in his tests, eh?
The guy at the store also suggested this place to rent some more lenses to test: https://aperturent.com/
I haven't committed to ordering one of these cameras, but I'm pretty fascinated by the sensitivity. I guess I should get my SD65F mounted first before I consider any other toys
I wouldn't trust the A&E doc too much. It claims auto back focus, which it does not have. Instead it supports AF lenses as confirmed by shokunin.The A&E docs mention a mechanical day/night IR cut filter... I wonder if it has to be triggered some other way!? Or maybe the software is just broken or lens-dependent.
I was at BestBuy earlier this evening and they had several M43 lenses on sale. I saw this Panasonic one w/ a f/1.7:
Panasonic - Lumix G 25mm f/1.7 ASPH. Lens For Micro Four Thirds - Black
Which would be just a bit more narrow than what shokunin used in his tests, eh?
The guy at the store also suggested this place to rent some more lenses to test: Aperturent.com - Rent lenses & cameras by mail. Pick up in Atlanta & Dallas.
I haven't committed to ordering one of these cameras, but I'm pretty fascinated by the sensitivity. I guess I should get my SD65F mounted first before I consider any other toys
The 25mm lens is nice, but in my case it is just way too narrow. I just realized that even the 17mm I was getting is too narrow. My current Starlight is set to 7mm, which would be the same as a 22mm on a M43 sensor. While 17mm would be wider than my current camera, the depth of field is too narrow due to the larger sensor. For example, with my current camera focused at 10 feet, a focal length of 7mm and the aperture set to F/2, the depth of field is more than 15 feet, but with a M43 sensor and a lens with a focal length of 22mm, it is just around 3.5 feet according to the numbers given by DOF simulator. Also, the PPF would be close to 200. Nice, but overkill (but then the 8835 is probably overkill in the first place
)That basically leaves me to choose between a fully manual Rokinon 12mm F/2.0 at ~$250 or the Olympus 12mm F/2.0 at 2.5X the price. I don't need the auto focus, but being able to close down the aperture during day time would be nice.
@EMPIRETECANDY Can you check if the camera is supposed to be IR sensitive or not? IR makes no difference in B&W mode and there is not cut filter sound. Where I plan to use it, I will run 24/7 in color, but there were a few things I would have wanted to try if it was IR sensitive
I have the same issue. If I turn of my lights and fire up either another camera w/IR or my IR illuminators the camera is still pitch black. I don't hear the IR cut filter moving either. It would be a serious limitation if these cameras didn't have IR cut filter to work in areas with limited light + external IR.