A lot of false positive motion detections on an Amcrest camera

[antonpuz]

Hello everyone.

Hope I can get some insights on what I can do to improve the false motion detections on my camera.
I have an outdoor 5MP Amcrest camera: Amcrest 5MP Turret POE Camera, UltraHD Outdoor IP Camera POE with Mic/Audio, 5-Megapixel Security Surveillance Cameras, 98ft NightVision, 2.8mm Lens (103° FOV), IP67, MicroSD (256GB), (IP5M-T1179EW)

I want to use it to protect my car which parks in a parking lot near my house. Added below are photos of the night view of the camera and the motion detection area I set. The thing is that I'm getting a lot of false positives (1 alert every 2 minutes) even if no-one is going near my car. The funny thing is that sometimes when someone does pass near the car the motion detection misses him. I tried setting the sensitivity lower but it didn't help. I've installed the latest firmware updates.
I guess I need a 3.6mm lens for this setup, but other than that, I have three main questions:
1. I worry that the wall on the left and the tree on the right mess with the IR view and eventually cause the issues I observe, is that correct?
2. Overall I had set an extremely small area for motion detection, does it work in such setting?
3. Other than switching to 3.6mm lens camera, what else can I do to improve motion detection?

Thank you!

 

[mat200]

Hello everyone.

Hope I can get some insights on what I can do to improve the false motion detections on my camera.
I have an outdoor 5MP Amcrest camera: Amcrest 5MP Turret POE Camera, UltraHD Outdoor IP Camera POE with Mic/Audio, 5-Megapixel Security Surveillance Cameras, 98ft NightVision, 2.8mm Lens (103° FOV), IP67, MicroSD (256GB), (IP5M-T1179EW)

I want to use it to protect my car which parks in a parking lot near my house. Added below are photos of the night view of the camera and the motion detection area I set. The thing is that I'm getting a lot of false positives (1 alert every 2 minutes) even if no-one is going near my car. The funny thing is that sometimes when someone does pass near the car the motion detection misses him. I tried setting the sensitivity lower but it didn't help. I've installed the latest firmware updates.
I guess I need a 3.6mm lens for this setup, but other than that, I have three main questions:
1. I worry that the wall on the left and the tree on the right mess with the IR view and eventually cause the issues I observe, is that correct?
2. Overall I had set an extremely small area for motion detection, does it work in such setting?
3. Other than switching to 3.6mm lens camera, what else can I do to improve motion detection?

Thank you!
View attachment 147253
View attachment 147254

welcome @antonpuz

It's going to be challenging to get good data when your car is that far away from a wide FOV camera.

I would look at getting a 4MP 1/1.8" Dahua OEM camera with a tighter FOV ( stronger lens ) ..

In terms of motion / action detection .. most cameras have less compute power to keep the cameras cheaper - so you may want to look at the treads on Blue Iris and AI here and see what others are doing to get better results.

imho motion detection algorithms from cameras will not give you the success % you will want ..

 

[Flintstone61]

You probably could use 4 x zoom turret.....to go tight on the car area. every light that goes on and off in that Apartment building is a potential trigger as well.

 

[wittaj]

Yep wrong camera for what you are trying to accomplish.

 

[mat200]

This is closer to the FOV I would look to get to watch over the car ..

 

[antonpuz]

Thanks everyone for the great answers.
Unfortunately this specific camera doesn't have the option to use both zoom and motion detection (from my understanding that's because there is no PTZ?)
I can only zoom after the recording, so I can't use the zoomed FOV @mat200 suggested.

@mat200, thanks for the suggestions, Blue IRIS was an option I though about but decided no to go with due to the following reasons: power consumption (compared to an ad-hoc NVR) and the monthly fee.
Having the camera connected like that is an intermediate phase to get familiar with this field, in a year or 2 I would get a NVR which would do some of the motion detection logic.
In the meanwhile, what does it mean 1/1.8" camera? reference to such camera would be very much appreciated.

 

[sebastiantombs]

The reference to "1/1.8" is describing the sensor size. Generally speaking, Amcrest, and many others, use small sensors in high resolution cameras. This results in terrible night performance due to the physics of spreading a little light over a high number of pixels. There is a direct relationship between sensor size, resolution and night performance.

Disclaimer - These sizes are what the manufacturers advertise and may, or may not, be the true size of the sensor in the camera.
1/3" = .333" Great for 720P
1/2.8" = .357" (think a .38 caliber bullet) Great for 2MP
1/1.8" = .555" (bigger than a .50 caliber bullet or ball) Great for 4MP
1/1.2" = .833" (bigger than a 20mm chain gun round) Great for 8MP

There is no monthly subscription fee for Blue Iris. You buy it, you own it and it comes with free upgrades for a year. You can remain at that or pay a yearly subscription fee for upgrades through each year and you an cancel whenever you want to. Given the amount of upgrades and changes made on a yearly basis it's not much of an expense at all.

A properly sized and configured PC running Blue Iris uses no more energy that an NVR. An NVR is nothing more than a dumb computer, usually running some form of custom Linux, with very limited capabilities compared to a VMS like Blue Iris. Used business class machines are excellent choices for running Blue Iris.

Here are two versions of the same model camera that utilize a 1/1.8" sensor. The top one is a turret or eyeball, and the bottom one is a bullet camera.

Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)

IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $200.00...

ipcamtalk.com

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

All, thanks to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) we have a new 4MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This camera is using the OEM model number of IPC-B5442-ZE which is the equivalent of the Dahua IPC-HFW5442-ZE for reference. The IPC-B...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[wittaj]

See this thread that lists recommended cameras based on the distance you want to IDENTIFY or have reliable motion detection alerts for.

The Importance of Focal Length over MP in camera selection

At the urging of several folks here, I created a thread to show the importance of focal length and how focal length can be more important than megapixels (MP). I mentioned some of this in the post regarding The Hookup’s latest video demonstrating different cameras, including one sold from a...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[Flintstone61]

Typically that camera(2.8mm) is going to be more of an overview camera with some external light if it's overlooking an outdoor scene. I use it on the porch and inside the garage.
the bottom 3 pics show the 5442 z4 pulled back, and then zoomed. You'd need this cam or the 5442 Ze turret which has some optical zoom, and might be just enough to squeak by for your car view. Zikes! 5F sports fans...

 

[antonpuz]

Wow that you so much for the informative answers, now it's my turn to do my homework

Just some follow up questions, @sebastiantombs is it possible to connect the PC/raspberry pie with Blue IRIS to an alarm system (I think the connection type is referred to as a dry connection?
@Flintstone61 what is the preferred online store to purchase Dahua cameras such as the 5442 series? I usually buy from Amazon and saw Dahua mainly has NVRs there and no so many cameras...

Another possible option is the EmpireTech series, where I can find the equivalent to Dahua camera, I guess my question with respect to that is would those cameras work with the Amcrest Pro View app?

Thanks so much, really appreciate your detailed answers.

Anton

 

[wittaj]

Empiretech is Dahua OEM and is a preferred vendor here. Amcrest is Dahua OEM (but with cheaper sensors and components) so their app will work with his cameras.

Yes with BI there are lots of options for alarms like that or others

Here is his Amazon store.

Amazon.com

 

[sebastiantombs]

You can trigger alarms through or to Blue Iris using MQTT I believe. I do not recommend doing that unless and until the system is running properly and the number of false triggers is basically zero. You'll just irritate yourself and the neighbors with false alarms. Even using AI it is pretty much impossible to eliminate all false triggers.

For Dahua or Hikvision cameras contact Andy here on IPCT. He is a very reliable vendor and woks with members developing improved firmware, in collaboration with Dahua, for cameras that rarely make it onto the Dahua site.

Andy
IPCT Thread

EmpireTech Andy

Dahua products

ipcamtalk.com

Andy's Store

Amazon.com

King Security/EmpireTech Store

Amazon.com

Email
Andy Wang kingsecurity2014@163.com

Andy's instructional videos -

EmpireTech latest New firmware, Device Guide video, Manual WEB5.0

Hey guys In 2023, we will make more setting guide video for newbie, sometimes a small trick will make them big trouble to start the device. So we decide to make some basic setting videos for the newbies. Will add more later when we do more. We support @jmcu some fund and he made this great...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[looney2ns]

On a real computer, study this. Wiki

 

[mat200]

Thanks everyone for the great answers.
Unfortunately this specific camera doesn't have the option to use both zoom and motion detection (from my understanding that's because there is no PTZ?)
I can only zoom after the recording, so I can't use the zoomed FOV @mat200 suggested.

@mat200, thanks for the suggestions, Blue IRIS was an option I though about but decided no to go with due to the following reasons: power consumption (compared to an ad-hoc NVR) and the monthly fee.
Having the camera connected like that is an intermediate phase to get familiar with this field, in a year or 2 I would get a NVR which would do some of the motion detection logic.
In the meanwhile, what does it mean 1/1.8" camera? reference to such camera would be very much appreciated.

FYI - Blue Iris software is not a monthly cost, just a one time purchase ..

 

[wittaj]

And many of us have found a well optimized machine uses less power than an NVR...

And yes it is only a one time fee for BI. If you like the product and want updates after a year, you can pay for OPTIONAL updates, but many are running older versions just fine.

By 1/1.8" camera than means the sensor size. The 5442 series is a 4MP on the 1/1.8" sensor, which is the appropriate MP/sensor ratio.

When you look at the next camera, pay attention to this chart comparing MP to sensor size.

As you will see, your Amcrest 5MP on a 1/2.7" sensor is not an ideal MP/sensor ratio. That size sensor is good for 2MP.

Night time camera selection w/motion involved

Everyone shops for a camera with a different approach to what might be the best camera for their install. I always check MP against sensor size as a way to remove undesirable cameras from my search. Once I found a camera with a desirable MP and sensor combo, I would then dig deeper on FOV...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[jack7]

@antonpuz wrote:
...
"3. Other than switching to 3.6mm lens camera, what else can I do to improve motion detection?"
---------
I think you may be able to improve your motion detection with reduced false detections.

The two attached pics are using a IP5M-T1179E.


On PC or tablet locally, put your cam IP address in Chrome.
See 1st pic. Go to Detection area Setup.
See 2nd pic. Notice the moving graph on the right. Vertical spikes will occur on detections. False detects will tend to be the shorter spikes.
The horizontal black line is the current threshold. The idea is to try and keep the shorter spikes below the threshold so they won't be considered detections. Adjust the Sensitivity and Threshold as needed.
I suggest setting the Anti-dither to 0-3 for this use but it may need to be changed depending on results.
Also see:

https://support.amcrest.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001079852-How-To-Setup-Motion-Detection-

Regarding your question about Amcrest View Pro with Dahua cameras, they would not work there with P2P for remote access like you are probably doing with your Amcrest cameras. But BI would be using other remote software and likely a local VPN that you would install.