An LPR success story

[CCTVCam]

I promise not all of us from Louisville are assholes like them. Courts and police need to focus on the people buying the cats. Hope he snitches

This is waht the UK did with cable theft and cats. They made trading in stolen metals a serious offence and made it so every transaction has to be recorded and the person making the transaction has to present a valid driving licence in order to sell the metals. They also have to be a licensed dealer. The fine details of the sale ie details of the goods sold in detail including the quantity by weight, along with a photocopy of the person's passport is kept and retaned by the metal yard. Any failure to keep a record incurs huge fines I think maybe jail as well, for the metal yard, so high that it isn't worth it for them to acccept metals without it or to fail to keep proper records. I believe the Police check records regularly vs their sales to the smelters etc to ensure compliance. Metal and cable theft in the UK plummeted after these laws were passed.

 

[erkme73]

@wtimothyholman - I know there were some tongue and cheek references to the piss-poor plate designs in TN, but as a fellow middle-stater, I think you have a great opportunity to draw some real attention to the matter. I would think that through the interview process, you made some connections with "investigative" reporters at the network affiliates. Shoot them an email with links to the stories about how the new plates have essentially neutered all but the most sophisticated and government-exclusive camera systems. That is a story that may have legs, and might just help get some public pressure on the bureaucrats in Nashville to come up with a solution.

For my part, I've sent an email to Amcrest, encouraging them to bring a 740nm near-IR sensitive consumer-level camera to market asap - as demand will only increase with more states taking the printed (vs stamped) plate approach.

 

[wtimothyholman]

@wtimothyholman - I know there were some tongue and cheek references to the piss-poor plate designs in TN, but as a fellow middle-stater, I think you have a great opportunity to draw some real attention to the matter. I would think that through the interview process, you made some connections with "investigative" reporters at the network affiliates. Shoot them an email with links to the stories about how the new plates have essentially neutered all but the most sophisticated and government-exclusive camera systems. That is a story that may have legs, and might just help get some public pressure on the bureaucrats in Nashville to come up with a solution.

For my part, I've sent an email to Amcrest, encouraging them to bring a 740nm near-IR sensitive consumer-level camera to market asap - as demand will only increase with more states taking the printed (vs stamped) plate approach.

I have had extensive and ongoing discussions about this matter with a local investigative reporter who has already done several stories about it. Here is the problem:

Camera vendors: "There's nothing wrong with our cameras. We'll fix it in software!"

Tennessee: "In that case, we're don't need to do a thing to the plates, since you camera vendors are taking care of it."

And that's where we sit. Flock Safety (and to a lesser extent Rekor) gave the state the excuse they needed to do nothing. The reality is that "fixing it in software" isn't working too well. What the reporter I'm working with is trying to do is find some public official, or some customer of Flock Safety, who is willing to go on the record and declare that the emperor has no clothes. The police know perfectly well the new plates are a disaster, but no one wants to stick their neck out.

But the cracks are showing. More than half the plates have been switched, and people are starting to notice that nighttime plate reads are plummeting. At some point this mess will blow up in everyone's face, especially when people with Flock Safety cameras find that they are getting almost no nighttime reads after a crime is committed in their neighborhood.

One company that is not affected by this mess is Genetec. They have custom 740nm cameras, but they are not cheap, nor will they sell them to individuals. They do have them deployed in some cities in TN, so this controversy hasn't bothered them in the least. And of course their presence in the marketplace gives the state yet another excuse to do nothing.

The impact of Flock Safety and Rekor has been to bring very low-cost LPR capabilities to smaller cities all over the state. They have made LPR affordable. The leaders (and police) in those smaller cities need to be the ones to speak up to get this mess fixed.

The only other alternative is for some company like Dahua or Hikvision to build either a 740nm or white light camera that can be used for LPR. Talking to Amcrest will get you nowhere, as they can only rebrand what Dahua gives them. Any new models have to come from the OEMs.

 

[erkme73]

What a great synopsis. That's exactly what I was thinking, but couldn't articulate it as well. So it comes down to employees standing up to the administrators to expose ineptitude or malfeasance. Where have we seen this in every other aspect of life lately...

It takes courage for someone to openly refute the state with a reporter. I get it. I think you're right that it'll take some kind of tragedy or outrage for people to start asking hard questions, and for the whistleblowers to feel like the public has their back.

I realize Amcrest just rebrands, but hopefully they have some input with Dahua engineering. My guess is they have more influence than we do as individuals.

Hello,

I have 60+ cameras installed, most of them are either Dahua or Amcrest.

Recently the State of TN has switched to printed (vs. stamped) license plates that no longer provide reflectivity in the normal 850nm IR wavelength. This means that plates are now completely washed out with no contrast between the lettering and the plate background.

This has caused significant problems not just for consumer-level cameras, but also those used for tolls and law enforcement: TN license plate LPR compatibility test results expected

Since the State refuses to accept defeat on a bad plate design, it is up to individual camera owners/users to modify or replace them.

Apparently, cameras with sensitivity to the 740nm (deep red/near IR) can easily reflect with sufficient contrast to be usable in LPR applications. However, there are currently no consumer-level cameras that offer this sensitivity.

From what I have been able to determine, it is either due to the lack of sensor sensitivity, or due to the lens aperture being too high/small - or a combination of the two.

Since there are no commercially available solutions to the retail consumer, any manufacturer who could develop and bring to market such a solution would be in an optimal position to capitalize on a very real market demand.

Given that TN is only one of several states with this new printed (not stamped) plate design, the market demand will only increase.

Thanks for your consideration,

 

[wittaj]

You would think one of these stations under their Investigative unit would rent out a Flock Safety camera and test it and get in front of the elected officials with their testing.

 

[wtimothyholman]

You would think one of these stations under their Investigative unit would rent out a Flock Safety camera and test it and get in front of the elected officials with their testing.

The reporter I met did. He got a local police department to bring out their mobile Flock Safety camera and showed that that it was not picking up the blue plates. Flock Safety responded that they were still making software improvements and that everything would be fixed. That was months ago, and the state considered the matter closed.

 

[wittaj]

The reporter I met did. He got a local police department to bring out their mobile Flock Safety camera and showed that that it was not picking up the blue plates. Flock Safety responded that they were still making software improvements and that everything would be fixed. That was months ago, and the state considered the matter closed.

WOW - that is crazy. At some point it is simple physics and simple physics says that IR at that wavelength can't see that color or can't see it well.

I guess it will take a class action suit collectively by public entities against 3M and probably Flock when they can't read plates. It seems like every week I see multiple stories of a new community that just entered into a contract with Flock.

 

[wtimothyholman]

I realize Amcrest just rebrands, but hopefully they have some input with Dahua engineering. My guess is they have more influence than we do as individuals.

The problem is that Amcrest does not sell LPR cameras. What is their motivation to pressure Dahua to design a 740nm camera?

For all of our activity on IPCT, do-it-yourself LPR is a niche business. We're not a big enough market to matter. The ones who should be pressuring Dahua are Flock Safety. They could pay Dahua to design a 740nm camera, but the last thing they want to do is admit to themselves or anyone else that they need to replace every camera in the field.

 

[wtimothyholman]

WOW - that is crazy. At some point it is simple physics and simple physics says that IR at that wavelength can't see that color or can't see it well.

A police officer I know has talked to a Flock Safety representative and basically told them, "You had the opportunity to fix this problem early on when the new plates were first being deployed, and you blew it. Now you have to deal with the consequences."

Flock Safety could have cut a check to the Dept. of Revenue early on to replace the plates that had been mailed out, and it would have cost them far less than what it will cost to upgrade all their current cameras.

 

[wtimothyholman]

I guess it will take a class action suit collectively by public entities against 3M and probably Flock when they can't read plates. It seems like every week I see multiple stories of a new community that just entered into a contract with Flock.

I think what it will take is for some company to start selling a competitively priced camera with 740nm or white light illumination sometime in the next six months. Every Flock Safety customer will terminate their contracts and switch over in order to get reliable nighttime LPR again, at which point Flock Safety will scramble to replace their cameras in the field, effectively admitting to everyone that they didn't "fix it in software".

I see no way that this mess ends well for Flock Safety. One way or the other, it will cost them a lot of money.

 

[looney2ns]

It all boils back to the incompetence of the administration that made the bone headed decision to use these new plates without any testing or probably didn't ask any questions of those in the know.
Just like elected officials awarding new computer contracts, they don't have a clue what they are doing so they get sold a bill of goods, that doesn't pan out as advertised.

 

[wtimothyholman]

It all boils back to the incompetence of the administration that made the bone headed decision to use these new plates without any testing or probably didn't ask any questions of those in the know.
Just like elected officials awarding new computer contracts, they don't have a clue what they are doing so they get sold a bill of goods, that doesn't pan out as advertised.

Until this mess happened, it never once occurred to the TN Dept. of Revenue to even talk to law enforcement officers or camera manufacturers about Tennessee plates. Nor did it occur to them to submit sample TN plates for evaluation by the AAMVA.

Hopefully that will change in the future, but for now they are not budging an inch. They'll have to be forced to do so.

 

[Firefighter]

Just chiming in to say, born and raised south of nashville. Glad to see you here and doing good in the big city. Keep it up!

 

[wtimothyholman]

The latest update: I've been subpoenaed to appear in court again on Dec. 14. The court docket says "Trial" for both defendants.

 

[wittaj]

Let's see if they show!

 

[wittaj]

The latest update: I've been subpoenaed to appear in court again on Dec. 14. The court docket says "Trial" for both defendants.

So did the court appearance happen or some plea or postponement?

 

[wtimothyholman]

So did the court appearance happen or some plea or postponement?

I got back from court a few hours ago. The trial date was deferred to Jan. 4. Apparently one of the two never had an attorney, and the other one's court-appointed attorney had to withdraw from the case. So now they both have new court-appointed public defenders.

I never saw the defendants, assuming they were even there (improbable). The assistant DA sent me home before the public defenders were even appointed.

 

[wittaj]

Wow the court system is so messed up.

 

[wtimothyholman]

Wow the court system is so messed up.

It was pretty clear that the assistant DA did not know the full context of the case. The two defendants probably stole dozens if not hundreds of catalytic converters, but he seemed to be thinking that they only stole the converter from my neighbor. I am writing an email to him to provide some background and help him understand why a slap on the wrist won't suffice for these two.

 

[wtimothyholman]

Latest update: a preliminary hearing was held today. Both defendants (surprisingly) showed up for court. I testified about my video, along with my neighbor (who was victimized) and the police who arrested the perps. The case was bound over to a grand jury by the judge.

Now we wait some more. It'll probably be at least a couple of months before anything else happens.