Another "What Do I Need" Question From A Newbie

spotco2

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We have people walking the neighborhood breaking in to cars and a few houses and outbuildings and it's really starting to get old. I have been wanting to install camera's for several years but never been serious about it until now. Here comes the want list and questions.

I do not want 30 camera's hanging from every corner of the house. All I really want to see CLEARLY is the driveway and someone walking up it towards the house so I can get a face shot of the next person that gets in one of the cars in the driveway. Since the house is so tall over the driveway (sorry for the snow pic, it was the only decent pic I had of the front of the house), I was thinking of putting the cameras in the garage looking out the windows of the garage doors. One camera on each outer window to catch the sides of the cars and one in a middle window looking between the cars. The driveway is about 80' long but I only need to really focus on the 10'-30' that is closest to the house. Another reason I was thinking of pointing out the windows is to put the cameras at head height instead of looking down at the top of their head. I might also put one on the back of the house somewhere but that one is not important at this point.

I have been reading and really like the shots some are posting with the 2032 cameras, but I know there are different version and they are confusing me. What's the best place to order them from? I was looking at CCTV CAMERA CHINA on aliexpress but always worry about ordering from China. What about the camera language? Would I have to update or buy anything extra to get the English Region patch or is this something the sellers already do when you have one shipped to the USA?

I do not have a problem running cable. I have power in the garage and can run power anywhere I need it. I would like to use a computer with an external hard drive for recording but would be willing to use a NVR if someone tells me which one I need. I am also a little confused on what I need to power the cameras. I understand the theory of POE but don't really know what I need as far as a switch to run the power out of. Also if using a NVR or computer, how do you view it remotely from an iPhone or another computer?

What about cables? Cat 5 vs 6? Is it cheaper to buy a roll of cable, some connectors and a crimper? If so, what are good ones and what to stay away from?

Anybody have a better suggestion on locations of cameras or different cameras?

I would like to stay in the $600-$1000 range.
 

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Kenjusticejr

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I won't attempt to answer all of your questions, but will add my 2 cents.... the light between the garage door looks like a decent place to put a camera. Directly below the light about at the top of the garage door level. You will be able to fish the cat5/6 through the opening where the wires go through to power the light. You may need to loosen the screws on the mount or something, but it proves to be a good option.

Cat5 vs cat6... 6 of one, half dozen of the other...... either is fine.

getting a box of cable, or a 100 ft length is pretty cheap, along with connectors. Properly attaching the connectors to the cable isn't the easiest thing to do, and if you've never done it, it can be a challenge.

Given the location, you probably won't need POE.

the 2032 cameras are pretty cheap, and if you're worried about ordering from china, spend the $30 extra and try to find one from ebay that ships from the states.

You shouldn't have to update anything in regards to the camera firmware, or language.


so, to get you started, Blue Iris software, and 1 or 2 2032 cameras will get you a good view of the drive.

Blue Iris has features to let you set up a web server. once set up, you will be able to put an IP address in the browser on your phone and see the cameras' view.

Good luck.
 

spotco2

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I appreciate the info. Yes I had thought about mounting the camera under that light but was unsure if it would catch the sides of the driveway when the vans are parked. I wanted coverage in case they enter from either side of the vehicles.

I am comfortable assembling connectors. I have run miles of low voltage at work and terminated almost all of them.

Stupid question #146...If I run power to the camera with one set of wires and a Cat 5/6 for data, where do I plug the other end of the Cat 5/6 if no NVR? The router on my network? Silly question and I feel I should know the answer.
 

bp2008

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Hello!

I am going to reply to you inside your quote in red text so it is easier to follow:

We have people walking the neighborhood breaking in to cars and a few houses and outbuildings and it's really starting to get old. I have been wanting to install camera's for several years but never been serious about it until now. Here comes the want list and questions.

I do not want 30 camera's hanging from every corner of the house. All I really want to see CLEARLY is the driveway and someone walking up it towards the house so I can get a face shot of the next person that gets in one of the cars in the driveway. Since the house is so tall over the driveway (sorry for the snow pic, it was the only decent pic I had of the front of the house), I was thinking of putting the cameras in the garage looking out the windows of the garage doors.

If you put the cameras behind windows, you will not get to use night vision as the infrared light will reflect off the window and right back into the camera. I really think you should put them outside.

One camera on each outer window to catch the sides of the cars and one in a middle window looking between the cars. The driveway is about 80' long but I only need to really focus on the 10'-30' that is closest to the house.

Sure. More cameras focused on roughly the same area means more infrared, too, so each one will see better. Again, only if they are mounted outside because if you put them inside behind a window you will have to disable the infrared.

Another reason I was thinking of pointing out the windows is to put the cameras at head height instead of looking down at the top of their head. I might also put one on the back of the house somewhere but that one is not important at this point.

You don't have to mount cameras on the eaves, you can mount them on the walls close to head height if you like.

I have been reading and really like the shots some are posting with the 2032 cameras, but I know there are different version and they are confusing me. What's the best place to order them from? I was looking at CCTV CAMERA CHINA on aliexpress but always worry about ordering from China. What about the camera language? Would I have to update or buy anything extra to get the English Region patch or is this something the sellers already do when you have one shipped to the USA?

The ones from aliexpress are the Chinese vervsion, and the only difference is a bit of programming inside the camera which makes them show Chinese language in the interface and on-screen display unless hacked. CBX is the guy who does the region change patch and you'd have to ask him for pricing. There are also posted guides on how to hack specific firmware versions to force them into English. However most of the Chinese sellers (including CCTV CAMERA CHINA) will have already hacked the cameras for you so you don't have to worry about it unless you update the firmware. The sellers do not apply a permanent region change -- that is only available from CBX.

I do not have a problem running cable. I have power in the garage and can run power anywhere I need it.

Good! I'm glad you don't have it in your head to use WiFi, as that makes it much easier to help you! PoE is still the easiest thing to use. Forget about running 12v lines.

I would like to use a computer with an external hard drive for recording but would be willing to use a NVR if someone tells me which one I need.

What is your computer's CPU and how much RAM does it have? Also, what operating system?

I am also a little confused on what I need to power the cameras. I understand the theory of POE but don't really know what I need as far as a switch to run the power out of.

Fortunately, this is really easy. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B003CFATT2 is a fantastic PoE switch that will power 4 cameras, and all you need to do is plug their cat5/6 to one of the PoE ports. You plug the switch in to your router via any of the ports. When dealing with standard PoE (802.3af or 802.3at) the PoE ports only send power when the device on the other end is compatible, but just to be safe I only use the PoE ports for PoE devices.

Also if using a NVR or computer, how do you view it remotely from an iPhone or another computer?

All modern recording software and NVRs have web interfaces so you can connect with a browser or a mobile app.

What about cables? Cat 5 vs 6? Is it cheaper to buy a roll of cable, some connectors and a crimper? If so, what are good ones and what to stay away from?

Cat5e and Cat6 are pretty close to the same, and are basically identical for our purposes. It is probably cheaper buying them pre-built (assuming you don't buy them from a brick and mortar store) as you won't need anywhere near the 1000 ft length of most spools of raw cable. A good crimper can be $50 or more just by itself. However if you do decide to mount cameras outside then you can get away with drilling smaller holes if you build the cables yourself. If you do this, I recommend buying cat5e or cat6 cable that uses solid copper wire. Not stranded wire, and not copper-clad aluminum (CCA). If you will run the cable near any AC electric lines, get shielded cable. I prefer Ubiquiti Toughcable Carrier but it costs about twice as much per foot as cheaper cable and it uses more-expensive RJ45 connectors.

Anybody have a better suggestion on locations of cameras or different cameras?

Here is what I recommend for possible camera locations, based on your picture:



For the green, blue, and purple/pink spots, cameras with 4mm or 6mm lenses should would work well (6mm is zoomed in more). You might want to put a camera over in the area around the red dot on the right, and have it pointed at your driveway with a 6mm or even a 12mm lens due to the distance. Or you could put a 4mm there and get a good overview of your front yard. Or do what I would do, and put up both. hah.


I would like to stay in the $600-$1000 range.
From aliexpress, each Hikvision 2032 camera will be about $90. At that price you can practically afford to lose one of every 3 cameras because from the USA you are likely to pay $140-170 each depending on who you buy it from. You can add $20 or $30 each if you want to get one of the dome models instead of a bullet. So assuming you buy one PoE switch for $42, some assortment of cables for $60 that leaves you with enough cash for just about any 4 of Hikvision's basic 3MP cameras. And you'll have money to spare if you buy the cameras from China.
 
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Kenjusticejr

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umm, yes, what he said ^^^


and yes, the Ethernet cable gets plugged into a router, switch, or hub on your network.
 

spotco2

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Domes vs Bullets in the green, blue and pink locations?



Do I have this right in my head? Cable from router to NVR, cable from NVR to POE switch for each channel, cable from POE switch to each camera?

What connectors do the camera's use? RJ45?

Can I use my laptop on the wireless network to record? Intel Cor i5-2450M CPU @ 2.50 GHz and 1T HD with external 1THD

If I use the laptop would I still need the NVR? Would I be better off running the NRV and driving it with the laptop? Which NVR?
 

fenderman

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Bullets are easier to aim and have much less chance of ir glare. Domes are more vandal resistant and look better, BUT if you want to wall mount it without an ugly mount you need to get a 3 Axis dome, like the hikvision 2532 or 2732. A turret is kind of the best of both worlds, both hikvision and dahua make them. You can record to a pc, get the same brand cameras and you can use the oem software like ivms and pss for hikvision and dahua respectively. You can also use blue iris, but it is more cpu intensive however it has way more options than oem software and you can mix and match camera brands. You can record direct to sd card on the cameras that support it but depending on the activity and resolution you will get a couple of days or so.
 

nayr

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Do I have this right in my head? Cable from router to NVR, cable from NVR to POE switch for each channel, cable from POE switch to each camera?

What connectors do the camera's use? RJ45?

Can I use my laptop on the wireless network to record? Intel Cor i5-2450M CPU @ 2.50 GHz and 1T HD with external 1THD
You'll have a PoE Switch that plugs into your router, the NVR will plug into the PoE switch as will all your cameras.. if your router has a few switch ports you can put the NVR on that if you really need the powered port but its wisest to keep it simple.

RJ45; go with cat6 over cat5.. cost is negligible.. Any self respecting geek has a RJ45 crimper, cable ends and a partially used spool of ethernet cable; look around locally and you can probably borrow/rent the supplies you need, might even teach you to make the cable ends so you dont loose your mind trying to figure it out on the top of a ladder.

NVR should not be on WiFi, it needs low latency and high bandwidth & reliability; In my case it takes 4TB HDD to store 2 weeks worth of video for 4xHighDef cameras 24/7... Either dedicate a PC (good reliable one that uses less than 100w power @ full load) to NVR duties and buy the appropriate software, or get a NVR from your camera supplier (Hik/Dahua)..
 
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Burbo

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See this post:http://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php?257-Good-source-to-buy-Hikvision-items-at The 2CD-2132I camera is excellent and "milkisbad" is an excellent seller. US based, 3 year warranty, what's more to ask for? He also has a small NVR with 4 POE ports built in. Basically run your cable, hang the wall brackets, hang your cameras, terminate your cables, plug into the nvr and viola, you got video. You will need 2 HDD's-get the WD purple. His equipment is made by Hikvision. I have 2 of his cameras, 4 Hikvision cameras and NVR from another vendor and have found the equipment to be of excellent quality. I have installed Arecont, Exacq, Samsung, Sony, Panasonic, and others. However for the price, and I am able to do any brand there is, the Hikvision is the way to go. Definitely 3 MP is what you want. At 3MP resolution, you should get 68 pixels per foot at a distance of 30 feet. Common rule of thumb is 45 PPF for license plate identification. $139.00 each on cameras, $10 or so for brackets, $100 for 1000 feet of CAT5e cable, $40 for tools and terminals, 2 HDD's at $120 each, NVR at $200 maybe? You might be a bit over $1000 but you will be totally impressed with the 3MP cameras.
 

bp2008

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I think your laptop is sufficiently fast to run Hikvision's iVMS software OR Blue Iris if you prefer, though with Blue Iris you would probably have to run the cameras at a relatively low frame rate and use direct to disc recording mode. You don't want to run it on WiFi though. It shouldn't be a big deal to plug in a machine you will leave on 24/7 for recording.

I agree milkisbad is an excellent seller. You can't order online with him however (just FYI), you have to use phone or email and fill out a form and such.

The DS-2CD2132-I is the one dome Hikvision makes that I would not recommend. It is only a 2 axis dome which means it isn't as adjustable as ... pretty much any other type of camera. The DS-2CD2332-I is the turret model which is similar to a dome. It is 3 axis adjustable making it much easier to deal with for mounting. The DS-2CD2032-I is the bullet and is really easy to mount. It is physically smaller than most of the other models but no lower in quality, and (often) cheaper too.
 

spotco2

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Follow up here.

I got the TP-Link POE switch and 1 2032 camera in this week. I dug out a box of cable and spent Friday night playing around. After finally watching this video I saw where I was having problems connecting and was looking at my live view in about 10 minutes! I played around with it in my office for a little while and got my phone connected also.

I have to admit, the pic was fantastic looking from this camera. I was not able to temporarily mount it outside (blue line in pic above) until tonight and the view in the dark was sharp also. The problem I ran into tonight was the infrared washes out faces with and without the flood lights on above it. The camera is mounted to the trim on the side of the garage door about in line with the bottom of the windows in the door. I thought I wanted it head height but faces are completely unrecognizable and solid white. I was not able to test this in the daylight.

The first 2 pics are with the flood lights on and the third is with the lights off and only infrared.

Is this normal? Am I expecting to much? Change the angle of the cam? Change the settings of the cam (iVMS and Blue Iris)?
 

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bp2008

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You can get into the cam's settings (in the camera's web interface) and change the exposure time, and that will allow you to eliminate the washout. For example if you set it to 1/60 then the exposure will never be longer than 1/60th of a second.

However when you do this everything else will get a lot darker so it is a tradeoff, and you might want another cam covering the same area just so you can have a bright pic too. I might recommend a 2332 camera with a 2.8mm lens, mounted higher, to get a general overview of the area.
 

nayr

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try playing with BLC/WDR/HLC settings to find the best image at night; you may need to use profiles if you dont want those filters on in the day.

you might try getting out of the house and getting a tan aswell :p
 

bp2008

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Yeah, nayr's suggestions may help reduce the washout without darkening the rest of the image, but that washout is pretty strong so I bet you do have to reduce exposure.
 

spotco2

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Thanks. I forgot that I could get into the camera that way and play with the settings. I was looking everywhere else for them and could not find anything.

I will play tonight and see what happens.
 

fenderman

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The camera should have an option for smart IR, that will help with the over exposure but may darken the rest of the image, give it a shot.
 
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