Anyone catch traffic from this?

FrankOceanXray

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Any of these IoTs can be hacked.. some more easily than others. Even our own gov't agencies have security issues.

Seems best way to make this stuff remote viewable and safe is VPN.

I am no IT guy. Let @nayr repeat himself, cause what he has to say is what I plan to do.
 
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smoothie

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Think of network security like physical security. You want layers upon layers of protection. The more secure and capable each of those layers are the more protected your core network is. If you have good quality doors and locks on your house that is certainly good, but if you live in a gated community with staffed security in addition to those doors and locks all the better. If you add an alarm system and some dogs that can increase security even more. If you make sure all the doors and windows are locked and the alarm is on when you leave that increases security as well since inactive security is no security.

Network security is much the same way. You can have a fully featured Firewall that can ignore traffic based on country of origin, while not perfect it will greatly reduce attacks from countries that have no business talking to your network. A VPN can be configured with extensive security, for example x.509 certificates are an excellent way to secure a VPN connection. They are essentially a digital ID card that must be shown to the VPN server for it to talk to you, because of how they are designed they are extremely difficult to bypass. Complicated passwords, more accurately pass-phrases, can make for substantially increased security. Two factor authentication is an order of magnitude more secure as you need not only your password but also a short duration, usually numeric sequence, code that has a usable lifespan of 30 to 60 seconds. Often these days you can install an app on your smart phone like Duo Security which allows the ongoing generation of two factor codes. Duo Security is supported by numerous companies such as Microsoft for Outlook.com and Lastpass.com.

By having your cameras connected only to your PC or NVR and having no direct Internet access themselves you can further limit the possible vectors for attack.

The underlying issue revealed in the original linked story is that people are lazy. People will fight against having complicated passwords, people will fight against having to use two factor authentication, people will fight against having to do steps they don't think are necessary because they don't understand the gravity of those steps. IT people may not have the time or the resources to educate people on how important these steps are. The IT people themselves may not even know that these steps can be important, not every IT person is a fully capable professional I am sorry to say. The result of all these factors and more is that the computer security, particularly at Government facilities that do not specialize in technology, can be terribly lacking.

For example port forwarding is suggested almost universally as the way to grant access to your security cameras when you are away from the network with the cameras. This does indeed grant remove viewing of the cameras and is able to be setup with ever increasing ease. I would bet that 90% of security camera systems setup in the world with remote viewing enabled are using port forwarding. Usually port forwarding allows the entire Internet to talk to those ports, no country specific traffic blocking is taking place. The cameras, the NVR, or the PC that the ports forward to can have security flaws or builtin admin accounts that cannot be disabled, they may be susceptible to exploits in their OS. If the password on the camera DVR is still password...*sigh*.

People often say "I don't care if someone can see my camera feeds so I don't need to bother with a VPN..." while this might be true these people don't care about someone seeing the camera feeds they are overlooking a significant fact, NVRs are computers. NVRs have processors, RAM, hard drives, operating systems (usually some Linux/*nix derivative) and the manufacturer probably isn't adept at building hardened OS' for exposure to the open Internet. There could be countless exploits and flaws exposed on that NVR which in turn is exposed to the open Internet by port forwarding. Even cameras have operating systems on them and can be riddled with flaws. If an attack can gain access to the OS by using exploits they can potentially install malware or command the device to participate in a DDOS (Distributed Denial Of Service) attack. They could use that compromised NVR to infect your other devices with malware. This is why anyone who knows anything about network security says VPN only for remote viewing. By using a VPN only AUTHORIZED and AUTHENTICATED devices may speak to the NVR/PC/Cameras in any way.

Most IoT (Internet of Things) devices are built for convenience and quick production time. The people who build these devices may well be quite smart, but unless they are versed in network security they are unlikely to build a hardened secure device by chance.

Port forwarding is like leaving for work in the morning and leaving your garage door open. Sure the door from the garage into the house is locked as is the front door to the house. A person who is walking by can just walk into your garage, yeah there might not be much of value in your garage so they can help themselves. But you are forgetting that the door from the garage to the house is nowhere near as strong as the front door, nor are the locks as good. Since you have no alarm once this person gets thru the door from the garage into your house they will have the run of the place for hours.
 

bp2008

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Port forwarding is like leaving for work in the morning and leaving your garage door open. Sure the door from the garage into the house is locked as is the front door to the house. A person who is walking by can just walk into your garage, yeah there might not be much of value in your garage so they can help themselves. But you are forgetting that the door from the garage to the house is nowhere near as strong as the front door, nor are the locks as good. Since you have no alarm once this person gets thru the door from the garage into your house they will have the run of the place for hours.
Well stated.
 

nayr

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Well consider this, All Dahua Cameras and NVR's older than a year or so pretty much all have backdoor logins, by default: 888888/888888 666666/666666

With one of those passwords you can enable Telnet: https://www.ipcamtalk.com/showthread.php/13369-Dahua-Enable-Telnet

Then you can login to shell and the game is over.. repeat for all the other Cameras on the network, then launch massive denial of service attack.

Dont forward ports, dont use p2p, dont use uPNP, fuck dont trust any of these devices.. put them on there own network where they can talk to eachother and nothing else but exactly what you choose to permit. Network Security has to be applied, and enforced externally.. these are inherently insecure in every way/shape/form.
 

bp2008

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I wonder how many people just blame their ISP for their internet being slow, when it is in fact their own compromised devices spewing out traffic to cause their internet speeds to suck.
 

FrankOceanXray

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So from the POE switch, instead of that patch cable going to my router, it is going to go right into my BI PC. Ya? Then we are talking totally off the web and short of 007 sneaking into my house, the cameras and that computer won't be vulnerable.

Does Win10Pro require internet, will it get fiesty with me if it cannot connect with mothership routinely??
 

bp2008

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It should be fine offline, but then you can't access your cameras remotely. Like, not even from another PC within your own house. If you want to isolate your camera network, you may want to put a second network adapter in your BI PC so one adapter can connect to your router and the other to your PoE switch.
 

rotorwash

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So from the POE switch, instead of that patch cable going to my router, it is going to go right into my BI PC. Ya? Then we are talking totally off the web and short of 007 sneaking into my house, the cameras and that computer won't be vulnerable.

Does Win10Pro require internet, will it get fiesty with me if it cannot connect with mothership routinely??
I have an outbound rule on the FW to prevent the BI server and cameras from talking outside the network. VPN in to view cameras, and anything on LAN can access BI. You would not believe how much a win10 box talks outbound EVEN THOUGH I turned off all the BS phone home crap. Now it won't even install a patch unless I allow it to.
 

dexterash

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My simple question would be: who is the party that can [or should] be held responsible?
 

dexterash

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Dahua and the installer. Obviously the botnet operator as well.
1. DAHUA - ok, as the manufacturer. Does the US have enough in-place laws/checks to pursue this? But what if the equipments were bought non-US certified, for example?
2. The installer? He has just followed the instruction manual. Should've been doing more?
3. The botnet operator(s)? They are in Southern BLABLAstan, under a rock. How to follow them?
 

dexterash

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Heck, I'm no wonderbook of jokes... Sorry for ruining it while... learning. :D
 

fenderman

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1. DAHUA - ok, as the manufacturer. Does the US have enough in-place laws/checks to pursue this? But what if the equipments were bought non-US certified, for example?
2. The installer? He has just followed the instruction manual. Should've been doing more?
3. The botnet operator(s)? They are in Southern BLABLAstan, under a rock. How to follow them?
As a manufacturer, they have an obligation to post security updates for EVERYONE to access. When they build and sell these cams, they know that they have a pretty long life span and should support updates for at least 5 years. Installers go out of business all the time, so even a legit purchaser would have an issue. These manufactures who fail to do so will be shamed into it with embarrasing exploits like this.
The installer should have used vpn and/or ensure that the user is aware to keep the firmware updated.
They will never get the operator, point is they are responsible as well.
 

dexterash

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As a manufacturer, they have an obligation to post security updates for EVERYONE to access. When they build and sell these cams, they know that they have a pretty long life span and should support updates for at least 5 years.
Under what law?

These manufactures who fail to do so will be shamed into it with embarrasing exploits like this.
Are you sure? They have exploits (wanted or unwanted, hard to tell) for over.. 4+ years. Myself and my company has been reporting them from the first start, when we discovered a path traversal vulnerability back in 2008, if I do remember well.

The installer should have used vpn and/or ensure that the user is aware to keep the firmware updated.
That raises the costs of the installer... Race to bottom? :D
On this, I do agree... maybe at least explain what is a firmware and what is an update.

They will never get the operator, point is they are responsible as well.
My simple question is: in a market like this, who should be hold accountable and who should pay the losses?
 
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