AXIS thermal network cameras

n4gry

n4gry

Getting the hang of it
Mar 17, 2014
159
34
Belle, Missouri
Has anyone used one or reviewed one? @networkcameracritic

http://www.axis.com/products/video/camera/thermal/index.htm

"Thermal cameras do not require any additional light sources – conventional or IR – that consume energy, create shadows and reveal their locations. And, in contrast to conventional day-and-night cameras that depend on a certain amount of near-infrared light to function, thermal cameras deliver reliable surveillance images even in complete darkness."

Video:

Kind of expensive! :D
 
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I would not be surprised if the price on those dropped a lot in the next few years. A company called Seek Thermal recently started selling a little 206x156 resolution thermal camera attachment for Android and iOS devices, costing $200. Other thermal cameras with comparable resolution cost over $1000. I've been curious about thermal cameras for a long time so I got one. Now to be fair it is kind of painful to use. The frame rate is around 2-3 FPS, it pauses all the time for self-calibration, and the accuracy leaves a lot to be desired. But this thing does demonstrate that costs are coming down.

Here is a video and some snapshots I took with it:



img_thermal-719745700.jpgseeKThermal_share_1417634252057.jpgseeKThermal_share_1417634263157.jpgseeKThermal_share_1417634294352.jpgseeKThermal_share_1417634328037.jpg
 
The reason I don't review cameras like that is because of their limited appeal. Think about it, most here will kill to save $10 on a Dahua or Hikvision HD camera and these cameras start at $3,500 with 160x138 resolution and quickly go to $9K for VGA resolution. I thought about doing one on Flir, they had an IP thermal camera for about $599 that may work but while announced, is not available anywhere, not even their store. I really like their iPhone camera, very cool, using the same low res sensor. Great for figuring out people's passwords by taking a quick snapshot of their keyboard after they logged in or PIN pad at an ATM. It also has a security appeal to see if someone or maybe an animal is hiding in the bushes.
 
It is always nice to know that they exist and how they work in the real world...... AXIS prices are in the 6K to 24K range witch is far above my means but it is nice to window shop!
 
What may make sense is you start with the $249 Flir Thermal iPhone jacket. You use it to steal passwords and pins and then use the profits to pay for the $24K camera ;)
 
LOL

I imagine Flir's camera is a lot better than the seek. You can't really see the heat left behind by a quick keystroke with the seek thermal camera. But you can definitely see it if you leave a finger on a key for a second or two. The heat does fade away within a few seconds though.
 
bp2008 said:
LOL

I imagine Flir's camera is a lot better than the seek. You can't really see the heat left behind by a quick keystroke with the seek thermal camera. But you can definitely see it if you leave a finger on a key for a second or two. The heat does fade away within a few seconds though.
Click to expand...

If they are right behind you in line a few seconds is all it takes. It looked so KEWL and already we are talking about doing evil things with them... Sad... But it is something that everyone should be aware of when shopping!
 
I had one in my last car. (I bought the car used, no way would I spring for a $2500 option like that - well maybe if it was an option that made it go faster of course).

I live in the suburbs so it was only good for the wow factor. Besides that pretty much useless.

It was cool to pull up to a intersection across from a multi story apartment building in the dead of winter and see the heat loss from all of the idiots who left their AC units in their windows.
 
Thermal is an absolutely awesome technology. Tons of game changing applications, even in the security field--just not for CCTV.

With regard to CCTV, the absolute best thermal imagers out there right now on the commercial market are 640 x 480. We all know what evidentiary value most 640 x 480 has in most case (read: none).

The goal of surveillance cameras is to:
1. provide a deterrent; and
2. record and preserve evidence

For these purposes, thermal is less effective than a $200 Hikvision 4MP dome with a PIR detector attached.

That being said, I own a thermal imager and absolutely love it.

it is awesome for surveillance work (using it handheld to detect possible intruders) and even simple forensic work (detecting which cars have been driven lately). It's also incredibly useful for home energy audits, finding roof leaks, detecting failing circuits, etc.

For a first thermal imager, I suggest Therm-App, which is an absolutely incredible product at an Earth shattering price. The 384 x 288 resolution blows both FLIRone (80 x 60) and Seek (240 x 180) out of the water. Honestly, at $1,600, it beats the stuff FLIR is putting out at $2,900. I was very lucky to snag it for the $999 intro price. Absolutely love it.

Therm-App has absolutely NONE of the accuracy/calibration issues that plague the Seek unit.

Regrettably, the unit is hardware locked at an 8.7 Hz refresh rate. When you get above that, it brings in all sorts of export regulation issues (it basically becomes a weapon restricted by a variety of arms control laws around the country). A lot of us are pressuring the company to come up with a firmware patch for US users willing to sign an simple ITAR form. If you buy it, be sure to contact them and let them know that you want this option. Still, the relatively slow refresh is by no means a deal killer. Crap resolutions (like FLIR and Seek) ARE.

Back to CCTV--the only time I see it being truly useful is in high resolution on a PTZ. Mounted high up, it would able an operator to actively surveil for potential intruders. Mounted to an automated PTZ system? Now we're talking.

Right now, the fixed cameras of relatively low resolution are essentially useless. Perhaps someone using a setup like this could test out the imager by throwing some cash in a 55 gallon drum, dousing it with diesel fuel (never use gasoline for this purpose--very unsafe) and lighting the money on fire to create a heat signature.

On the bright side, costs on thermal are finally beginning to drop. I'm betting that we might see a viable unit by 2020 or so. Right now, if you want to be an early adopter, get yourself a decent handheld--either the Therm-App or the new IR Patrol (640x480 for the unheard of cost of $5K).
 
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Comparing sample images and video from the therm-app to my own experience with the Seek, I have no doubt the therm-app is a far superior thermal camera. It has a much higher frame rate and resolution, and the images look a lot cleaner and clearer. Alas, the price is an order of magnitude higher, and the seek is already rather expensive for a novelty toy. You'd need to have a seriously compelling use for a thermal camera to spend more than the minimum on one.

I think it would be really great if it became common practice in a few years to put a low resolution thermal imager inside typical IP cameras, to supplement the optical camera. Most obviously to use the thermal video for smarter detection of intruders, day and night.
 
Anyone know what type of distance you could "see" small animals and how much of an issue obstacles would cause?
For example could I use this to find my cat in the woods at night and of so how far out?

That cat is like a ninja...one moment he is there, the next, poor, he is gone and I spend an hour walking the woods ( like last night in 9 deg temps), trying to find him before the coyotes do.
 
Obstacles cause as much of an issue for a thermal camera as for any other camera, if not moreso. Normal window glass for example is opaque to a thermal camera.

Due to their low resolution most thermal cameras have a fairly narrow field of view. Narrower field of view means more zoom which means a longer effective distance. Seek Thermal has a few cameras with a 20 degree FOV which they claim is good for heat detection at several hundred feet. They claim 900ft with one product, and 1800ft with another product that has the same specs... so take it with a grain of salt.
 
That does not sound cheap not sure what monetary symbol that is...what woulld that be in USD?


Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk
 
pics or it didnt happen, err.. take that back, video or it didnt happen :P
 
I'd love it too, but I'd have to win a LARGE lottery prize to pop that many large on a single camera.
 
Wow, yeah, that camera will never happen cha-ching

Sent from my SM-P900 using Tapatalk
 
here people talk about the "cheap" USB Cams: Thermal Imaging - Page 1

In my case a Thermal Cam would be nice to because there is no light behind the House and IR is a bad idea the price for the hole ilumination would cost a lot.
Maybe we get from Axis an NRF Discount but I have no money for that at the moment.
 
What kind of back yard do you have that makes a thermal camera more cost-effective than IR illuminators?

Remember, thermal cameras don't stand a chance of identifying people, which is mostly what security cameras are for.
 
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