Been Broken Into

fenderman

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While a true panel is best, most all in one systems have smash and grab protection, they send a signal on entry delay, then if a subsequent signal is not sent, the central station calls the police. Ring (technically not an all in one unit as the base station is separate from the panel) has this function as well.
 

smiticans

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Usually the keypad is just the inputs. When you have more than one keypad they all can disarm the system and they all tell you what's going on. If it was as easy as smashing the keypad there would be no benefit. Burglar alarms are built with redundancy. Take the phone line for example. It has to be wired to seize the line to dial out. But the monitoring companies can also tell if the phone line has been cut because they lose communication with the panel. I'm not sure how they can tell this, but I know they can. The alarm doesn't like it when you disconnect the phone line... pro tip, don't disconnect phone lines at a client's house without checking to see if the alarm system is hooked up to it first.

Sent from my new phone. Autocorrect may have changed stuff.
You're confusing a hardwired alarm system with a wireless all-in-one alarm system. The wireless all-in-one system has the keypad and main control panel "the brains" inside of one module that's usually installed next to the front door or in a common area in the house. Yes, smashing an all-in-one system will stop it from working.

Based on your statement it appears to me that you have very limited knowledge of alarm systems and how they work. Your phone line example is very poor. When an alarm occurs, the alarm systems uses the phone line to dial the central stations phone number and transmit an alarm signal, very similar to a fax machine. The central station is NEVER in constant communications with the alarm panel. The central station DOES NOT know if the alarm system has a functioning phone line. Yes, some alarm panels can be programmed to monitor the voltage on the phone line and if the voltage drops below a certain point, it'll go into a trouble condition or alarm depending on how it's programmed. Once the phone line is out of service the alarm system has absolutely NO ability to contact the central station unless the alarm system has a back-up communicator, such as a cellular radio. Most alarm systems that use a phone line will send in a test signal every 30 days as long as the installer programmed it. If the central station does not receive the test signal after 30 days, usually they will call the customer and notify them. It does not get treated as a burglar alarm.

However, most alarm systems use IP or Cell for their communication methods. Even with IP or Cell, the central station will not constantly monitor your communications line unless you pay extra.
 
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What I would recommend for your situation is getting a wireless home security setup i.e: Simplisafe, the new Ring system, or something that isn't hardwired into your home. We all know how much a waste of money built in home security systems are so this may be a great option for you. I'm pretty sure these will still cost a monthly or yearly fee, but they are WAY less than a traditional setup (like 5 to 10 dollars a month).

Back to your original question. Like others have stated, security cameras are more of a deterrent then home protection. Most of the time, security cameras provide evidence of a crime or event and give authorities a better picture of what happened and how to find a suspect, nowhere do they stop a crime in action and neither do home security systems. The big difference between home security systems and cameras is that a company is monitoring your property 24/7 and will notify police if any suspicious activity is happening. A camera system cannot do this (depending on what kind you have, some are included in security systems). Overall it's down to your preference of cost and situation. If you want both, a cloud camera/security system may work for you but isn't recommended by most in this forum.
 

smiticans

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While a true panel is best, most all in one systems have smash and grab protection, they send a signal on entry delay, then if a subsequent signal is not sent, the central station calls the police. Ring (technically not an all in one unit as the base station is separate from the panel) has this function as well.
All modern AIO systems have that feature, but in order for it to work an entry zone has to be tripped prior to the destruction of the unit. Some alarm companies also charge an extra fee for that feature unfortunately.
 

smiticans

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What I would recommend for your situation is getting a wireless home security setup i.e: Simplisafe, the new Ring system, or something that isn't hardwired into your home. We all know how much a waste of money built in home security systems are so this may be a great option for you. I'm pretty sure these will still cost a monthly or yearly fee, but they are WAY less than a traditional setup (like 5 to 10 dollars a month).
I guess you didn't read any of the previous posts in this form. The OP stated he did not want a monthly monitoring fee. Some "traditional" alarm systems can be self-monitored without a monthly cost with an addition of a 3rd party module which I explained.

Not sure what you mean by "built in home security systems are a waste of money". If anything they're a better value as long as you own the system. Monitoring is also available on a "built in home security system" for $10.00 a month if you shop around.
 

SecuritySeeker

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Usually the keypad is just the inputs.
My response was specifically with regard to all-in-one units where that is not the case. I've never seen an all-in-one units myself by the way, all units I've ever used had separate keypads and in that case destroying the keypad is not going to accomplish anything obviously.
 

SecuritySeeker

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The central station is NEVER in constant communications with the alarm panel.
Actually, back when ISDN was still in use (it's been phased out entirely overhere) some systems allowed the use of the D-channel of ISDN to stay in touch with the central station on a continuous or at least semi-continous basis for constant monitoring. I also remember that it was hideously expensive to have that feature enabled so our alarm system simply only used one of the B-channel to connect to the central station whenever an alarm was triggered. I think the connection was also checked once a day or something like that using the B-channel.
 

Mick-B

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Thank you for all your input and suggestions, I went with Simplisafe The Hearth System, probably not one of the best but it will do for now and give the wife some peace of mind.
 

Rebelx

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Wired alarm with back to base or back to your mobile monitoring. Fake cameras ($5 each from ebay) for now.
 

CCTVCam

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It does matter actually. You're assuming the system will get destroyed after it's activated. If an intruder enters through a zone that's programmed as an entry/exit zone they'll have at a minimum of 30 seconds to destroy the main panel which is plenty of time.
Not true. You seem to be speaking from the perspective of someone either has no alarm, or has only had very low end consumer grade systems. Delays can be set from zero to in excess of 40 seconds in 5 second increments on my typical system. There are 3 factors here:

1. Where you locate the AIO panel - next to the main entry door is an idiots positioning - you want any burglar to waste time looking for it.

2. How long you set the delay - you want it so short you barely have time to reach the panel at a rush and get the code in. Mine is under 20 seconds and it takes at least 12 of those seconds to open doors and get to the panel from the main entry point at a rush when you know exactly where the panel is, leaving just 8 seconds to enter the code. There's not time to correct a mistake.

3. You should be setting individual delays for each Zone not a one size fits all delay, and on a full arming, given no-one will be in the property, for any Zone other than the Main Entry Point ie the door you usually exit / enter the property by, the delay should be zero resulting in an instantaneous trigger.

That's also assuming the system is using a modern form of communication such as IP or Cellular. If the system is using a phone line, it'll take an additional 15 to 20 seconds on top of the 30 second entry delay for the panel to pick up the line, dial the central stations phone number, and transmit the alarm. Furthermore, you're also assuming that the OP will protect every entry point and the alarm will activate as soon as the intruder breaches the perimeter. Fact is most people don't protect every entry point (Door/windows) and could tamper with the unit before the alarm is even activated.

In addition, the OP stated he does not want a monthly monitoring fee. Using an AIO system will eliminate the ability to use 3rd party communicators like the Envisalink 4. This would result in the OP having to sign up for either basic self-monitoring using an Interactive service or having the system as a local alarm only. The only AIO system that I'm aware of that allowed an end user to program a cell phone number into the system to get notifications upon an alarm is no longer produced.
A monitored alarm will trigger instantly locally irrespective of whether it also dials a monitoring station unless it's a silent alarm, and typically, only panic buttons tend to trigger silent alarms and then only on some systems. Most systems use a non silent panic.

Any householder that doesn't cover every room downstairs is an idiot. It's true to say you probably can't afford to put a glass break sensor on every window, unless well healed. However, a single well positioned PIR sensor will cover an entire room and all entry points for the cost of the 1 unit. The minimum fitted in my opinion, should be 1 reed sensor on every external door, that's usually 2-3 total, and a PIR on every room covering all entry points downstairs, usually around 3-4 for a typical house, depending on the panel mounting location. Larger houses may need more, but if you have a very large house, I doubt an extra PIR will break the bank. Additionally, a minimum upstairs should be a PIR covering any common area such as a landing and a glass sensor on any easily accessible window ie those that can be reached from roofs or next to drain pipes.

As IAmaTeaf mentioned above, your perception of destroying the panel is also incorrect as most decent bells have electronic logic boards built in and these alarm if the panel signal is removed.

Additionally, my panel communicates wirelessly with the bell, and has tamper switches fitted that detect front panel removal. Hit it with a hammer and flex or smash the case, and it will send a trigger system when the case flexes or is broken and the tamper switch activated as a result. Electricity travels faster than a hammer head and even if it didn't, again the fact is the bell will sound if the panel signal is lost. Again this is why panels have back up batteries fitted - so they don't cause a false alarm and go down if the mains goes down.

My panel is no longer produced, although I think it's replacement model is the same, does telecommunication - mine uses the normal phone line to contact a monitoring centre if you subscribe (I don't) or can be fitted with an optional SIM card module to use cellular if the phone lines are cut. In my case, not paying for monitoring, means it phones my mobile if triggered. Not many panels do this true, but then again you have a choice and a price point and telecommunication is not essential.
 
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smiticans

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Not true. You seem to be speaking from the perspective of someone either has no alarm, or has only had very low end consumer grade systems. Delays can be set from zero to in excess of 40 seconds in 5 second increments on my typical system. There are 3 factors here:
Yes, most systems can be customized, however, 30 seconds is the default setting and most people/installer don't change it. In my opinion, 30 seconds is the sweet spot in giving you enough time to comfortably enter the residence and disarm the system without having to run around.

1. Where you locate the AIO panel - next to the main entry door is an idiots positioning - you want any burglar to waste time looking for it.
I agree, but that's where most people/installers place it.

2. How long you set the delay - you want it so short you barely have time to reach the panel at a rush and get the code in. Mine is under 20 seconds and it takes at least 12 of those seconds to open doors and get to the panel from the main entry point at a rush when you know exactly where the panel is, leaving just 8 seconds to enter the code. There's not time to correct a mistake.
If you live alone that's fine. But if you have a family, that's going to be a problem when they come in with groceries and other items etc. Eventually the short delay will become a nuisance. You're being unrealistic.

3. You should be setting individual delays for each Zone not a one size fits all delay, and on a full arming, given no-one will be in the property, for any Zone other than the Main Entry Point ie the door you usually exit / enter the property by, the delay should be zero resulting in an instantaneous trigger.
Luckily for me the entry/exit door is in the garage so all of the exterior doors are programmed as perimeter.


A monitored alarm will trigger instantly locally irrespective of whether it also dials a monitoring station unless it's a silent alarm, and typically, only panic buttons tend to trigger silent alarms and then only on some systems. Most systems use a non silent panic.

Any householder that doesn't cover every room downstairs is an idiot. It's true to say you probably can't afford to put a glass break sensor on every window, unless well healed. However, a single well positioned PIR sensor will cover an entire room and all entry points for the cost of the 1 unit. The minimum fitted in my opinion, should be 1 reed sensor on every external door, that's usually 2-3 total, and a PIR on every room covering all entry points downstairs, usually around 3-4 for a typical house, depending on the panel mounting location. Larger houses may need more, but if you have a very large house, I doubt an extra PIR will break the bank. Additionally, a minimum upstairs should be a PIR covering any common area such as a landing and a glass sensor on any easily accessible window ie those that can be reached from roofs or next to drain pipes.
I agree, but most people don't.

As IAmaTeaf mentioned above, your perception of destroying the panel is also incorrect as most decent bells have electronic logic boards built in and these alarm if the panel signal is removed.
Can you back this up with documentation? At least in the United States I have not seen any residential or commercial grade AIO system that has a wireless siren that continuously monitors for the panels presence and will sound upon a loss of signal from the panel. That just doesn't exist in the United States. If it does, I haven't seen it. Yes, if the siren is already activated and the panel gets destroyed then the siren will continue to sound because it won't get a "disarm" signal from the panel. However, I have seen this feature rigged by the end user on a hardwired system.

Additionally, my panel communicates wirelessly with the bell, and has tamper switches fitted that detect front panel removal. Hit it with a hammer and flex or smash the case, and it will send a trigger system when the case flexes or is broken and the tamper switch activated as a result. Electricity travels faster than a hammer head and even if it didn't, again the fact is the bell will sound if the panel signal is lost. Again this is why panels have back up batteries fitted - so they don't cause a false alarm and go down if the mains goes down.

My panel is no longer produced, although I think it's replacement model is the same, does telecommunication - mine uses the normal phone line to contact a monitoring centre if you subscribe (I don't) or can be fitted with an optional SIM card module to use cellular if the phone lines are cut. In my case, not paying for monitoring, means it phones my mobile if triggered. Not many panels do this true, but then again you have a choice and a price point and telecommunication is not essential.
The battery back-up is there so the end user will have a functioning alarm system during a power outage. I'm not aware of any AIO system where the wireless sirens monitor the main alarm panel and will sound if the panel loses signal. Please provide me with documentation to backup your statement.
 

CCTVCam

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Most of the events you describe above are user or installer failures to set the system up properly. You can't blame the alarm for that. I don't have the documentation to back it up nor do I particularly want to advertise what system I have. However, I would re-iterate, no system is better than the person who sets it up. If you don't install enough sensors, in the right positions with the correct delays, then you can't blame the alarm if someone is able to disarm it or burgle you without triggering an alarm. At some point, the householder has to assume responsibility for choosing a good installer, and reading the manual to check that delays etc are best optimised to their needs. Failing that, wireless can be relatively easy to install yourself (I installed mine). The purchaser just needs to read the manual and go through every setup procedure and option properly to optimise the system.
 

looney2ns

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Thank you for all your input and suggestions, I went with Simplisafe The Hearth System, probably not one of the best but it will do for now and give the wife some peace of mind.
So, for someone who didn't want a monitoring fee, you chose one that is $15 per month.
The ring is a MUCH better deal and product.
 

Mick-B

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Loonet2ns. You are correct I guess I did not read enough about that system, I have cancelled the order and will spend more time researching, guess just in a hurry after the break in to get my family feeling a bit safer.
 

smiticans

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Most of the events you describe above are user or installer failures to set the system up properly. You can't blame the alarm for that.
I agree. In the US, that's how these AIO systems were designed to be installed, hence the reason why I hate them. After you go though all the trouble of properly securing an AIO system in my opinion it's just easier to install a hybrid system instead. The Vista series requires hardwired keypads. However, DSC makes a system called Alexor where everything is wireless and the main control panel is separate from the keypads and can be in a hidden location. Honeywell (Resideo) is also coming out with a new hybrid system next year that'll work with wireless sirens and wireless keypads. The main control panel will be in a secure location.

I don't have the documentation to back it up nor do I particularly want to advertise what system I have.
You made it seem like almost all AIO's have this feature. You can find documentation for all major brands of alarm systems online in PDF format. I'm not asking for the documentation to your system, just something that'll elaborate on that feature. Honestly, it sounds like you're outside of the United States so you may have different standards in your Country. If that's the case, you'd be disappointed with the AIO systems we have.
 

smiticans

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Loonet2ns. You are correct I guess I did not read enough about that system, I have cancelled the order and will spend more time researching, guess just in a hurry after the break in to get my family feeling a bit safer.
If you're not interested in using the Envisalink 4 with a hybrid wireless system then your next best option is most likely the Ring alarm system.

If you have questions about the systems ask them before you purchase it. It's better to make an informed decision instead of making an impulse buy that you'll regret later.
 
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