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Best low light PTZ?

C

Cold Cam

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So I'm looking for a really good low light/night PTZ with at least 30X zoom. It appears that DS-2DF6A436X-AEL(T5) may be the ticket with 4MP, 1/1.8 sensor, f1.2 lens, 0.001 Lux rating? It's at the limit of my budget $1500-2000, and the housing has a diameter of 231mm which is the biggest I would like to go.

Have anyone tried this cam? Is there any obvious downsides? (yes, I am aware it doesn't have IR, never use it anyway) and how can I expect the daylight performance? I believe the big aperture may not be great for that?

And are there any other models that fit the bill, including Dahua that is just as good or better? I know that specs isn't all, and a lot of magic will be done in signal processing.
Appreciate all input!
 
wittaj

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What is the intended use? At night at any distance without IR or white light will be blur city by slowing down the shutter and increasing gain and would be a horrible choice for low light conditions.

Keep in mind 30X zoom means nothing - it is the focal length that determines how far it can see. 30X with a focal length starting at 1mm (30mm zoom) is a lot different zoom than a 30X with a focal length starting at 8mm (240mm zoom).

This would be the equivalent Dahua OEM to the Hik and this one has IR.

empiretech01.com

EmpireTech PTZ5A4M-25X 1/1.8" CMOS 4MP 25x Starlight IR 5.4mm–135mm Va

1/1.8" 4Megapixel CMOS | Powerful 25x optical zoom | Starlight+ Technology | Max. 25/30fps@4MP | IR distance up to 150 m | Deep-learning-based perimeter protection | Auto-tracking and IVS | PoE+ | IP67, IK10
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com

And this one rocks the low light scene:

empiretech01.com

EmpireTech PTZ4K45X-AI 1/1.2'' CMOS 8MP 45x 8mm–360mm Vari-Focal PTZ C

1/1.2" 8Megapixel STARVIS CMOS. 45x optical zoom. Ultra light sensitivity. Max. 25/30 fps@4K. Auto-tracking. Perimeter protection. Face detection. Face recognition. Metadata. SMD Plus. IP67. Dual light fusion. Electronic defog. Wiper.
empiretech01.com empiretech01.com
 
C

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Thanks. Intended use is pretty much nature and weather, mountains, animals, the sea, and the night sky and northern lights. But also keeping an eye around the property. AI, face ID, tracking etc are of no interest for me. Almost all targets are well outside IR range. Been running a Dahua SD49225 for several years. Works well with the somewhat uncommon light conditions I have. Live above the Arctic Circle, so I have polar night in the mid winter and midnight sun in the mid summer. But what most don't really know is that you get several hours of twilight every dusk and dawn (except summer) that I'm interested to extend and improve with a better camera. And with moonlight and snow on the ground you also get an incredible amount of light many days in the winter. I have looked at the PTZ5A4M-25X. I would probably been all over it, but not with "only" 25X / 135mm lens. While I have talked a lot about low light performance, daylight performance is still just as important and more zoom is a must. When that is said, I would have loved to see a side by side comparison with that and the hik in various amount of light.
 
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tech101

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tech101

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bigredfish said:
^^^^^^
Congrats to @tech101 for finding that.

There's a 4MP with the same 1/1.2" sensor I'm also interested in.

DS-2DF8C448I5XG-ELW

Hikvision DS-2DF8C448I5XG-ELW 8C Series 4MP 48X DarkFighter Laser Network Speed Dome
www.hikvision.com www.hikvision.com

Discussion thread here
I like this PTZ.. HikVision - DS-2DF8C260I5XG-ELW 1/1.2" progressive scan CMOS @ 2mp.
Click to expand...
Thanks a ton to you as well for finding that 4MP version. I must say, I like the HikVision site a bit better now, as we can narrow down through MP Filter. All they have to do now is add another filter option using sensor size. I wish Dahua had this option on their website.
 
bigredfish

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Yeah it took some poking as there was like 5-6 of those 4MP, only one had the big sensor…

Wish I knew more about HiK PTZs. I’m guessing those will be close to $2K… At least that’s the neighborhood I found the same unit with the 1/1.8 sensor for on B&H
 
C

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bigredfish said:
If I'm looking to spend that money and want long distance, great image, I'd do the PTZ4K45X all day long
Click to expand...
I would be great if you (or anyone) could take the time and explain why you would consider this (or something else) a better camera for me, especially in low light? From the limited knowledge I have, MP-sensor size ratio is important and 8MP on a 1/1.2 would be similar to 4MP on 1/1.8. The PTZ4K45X has 8mm-360mm lens while the 2DF6A436X has 6mm-216mm so that's an obvious difference. However, what I noticed that few seems to talk much about is the aperture. The PTZ4K45X start at F1.5 while the 2DF6A436X start at F1.2 I searched for an online calculator and F1.2 apparently let's in 56% more light than F1.5, doesn't that have a big impact? Again, this is not my field of expertise, so I genuinely want to learn what make these cameras good or bad, thanks! :thumb:
 
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Im not a Pro either, just an enthusiast, but you're right, and if this was a fixed lens camera, it would be a bigger deal.

The low FStop # shown is at the widest FOV setting. Once you start to zoom, that number will go up noticeably. I dont see an FStop range on the HiK so cant be sure what it is at max zoom. My guess is most of us wont be using such a camera at short 6mm focus so that FStop isnt going to be meaningful.

I'm basing my opinion on the experience with Dahua's newish 4K cameras with 1/1.2" sensors that are pretty incredible with gathering light. They exceed the 5442 in that regard with the 1/1.8 sensor which most of us love and recommend. The downside on the fixed lens versions are they have a narrow range of focus. I'm assuming, that wont be an issue with the variable focus PTZ.'

Pairing the sensor to the MP is important, and we've found generally speaking, 4MP/1.18" and 4K/1/1.2" are well paired. So yeah they should be somewhat equal in image quality, but I've seen the difference in detail and IF we can get the same brightness, without too much noise, and be able to run 1/120 exposure or better to eliminate most motion blur (night) then I'll take the 4K

I'm even more curious about the HiK 4MP model (with 1/1.2" sensor) 2 posts up I mentioned that we stumbled upon today
 
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cattlecreek

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Without a doubt the PTZ6C2M-45X. I have one and just ordered another.
 
bigredfish

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Cool. As I mentioned, with only 2/3 the zoom, I expected it would be lower

And the 4MP 1/1.8 Dahua mentioned near the top of this page shows this with a 135mm max zoom
Max. ApertureF1.6–F4.0
I would expect those to 4MP 1/1.8 sensor PTZs to be very close in actual image quality and brightness



Again my only reasoning for liking the 4MP- 1/1.2" camera is that l've seen over the years these jumps in sensor size making a noticeable difference. About every 2 years we've seen a sensor size increase that has changed the game
  • We went from 1/3 CMOS sensors and then the 5231 2MP series came out and we were all amazed at the 1/2.8 sensor
  • Then the 5442 4MP came out and were blown away by the 1/1.8 sensor in comparison
  • And more recently we've seen the 1/1.2" sensor first in the 8MP Dahua 5849T1-ASE-LED (that granted has focus range issues in the initial release) but from a light capture standpoint is a clear step up from the 5442 series.
 
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