Best way to add more storage to BI computer..

[GaryCAa]

I recently picked up a Dell Optiplex 7050 SFF computer to allow me to run Blue Iris. It has an I7-7700 processor, but only had a 250Mb SSD. I added a 2nd NIC, and moved one of the 4T purple drives from my Dahua 5216 NVR. Now I'm looking for the best way to add the other 4T purple drive. It is a small machine and I do not see space to add anything inside.

Have any of you had a similar situation? There are probably dozens of solutions, but I would like to get to the best one, without going through all the others first.

What would you do?

Gary

 

[samplenhold]

I would either get a bigger box, or replace the 4T with a 10 or 12T. That is the issue with buying these SFF boxes. Unless you know exactly what the upgradability is, then it is a crap shoot as to being able to add disks.

Some do add an external enclosure via USB or write to a NAS.

 

[wittaj]

If it has a CD drive, remove it and use the port on the motherboard to add another HDD and figure out where to velcro the HDD to if there isn't enough room with the CD removed.

 

[Flintstone61]

The 7010/7020 had a full sized cd-rom in its SFF model. The 7050 uses a laptop style cd-rom. If you take it out, maybe there is room like this. Ugly. But it worked. I previously had it in there locked to one side.

 

[samplenhold]

The 7050 uses a laptop style cd-rom. If you take it out, maybe there is room like this. Ugly. But it worked. I previously had it in there locked to one side.

You can try this adapter:

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-3-5in-5-25in-Bracket-Adapter/dp/B000HLZXH2/ref=asc_df_B000HLZXH2/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=309776868400&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=8623358905857672504&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9027726&hvtargid=pla-381838169506&psc=1

There are others also.

 

[GaryCAa]

Thank You to everyone that responded.

The Optiplex 7010 or 7020 might have been a better choice for me, since it has a full sized CD player. The 7050 has a 7mm tall drive, and the 4Tb drive is 14mm. Just not enough room to shoehorn it in. I would like to put the BI computer in my open faced entertainment center, where the 5216 NVR was. Pulling out an obsolete blue ray will allow that. Not enough room to add an external enclosure there. It looks like a NAS next to my router in the other room, will be my best choice.

I would like to get a 2-4 bay NAS, but only equip it with 1 or 2 drives. My old NVR gave me two weeks of recordings with two 4Tb drives, I expect BI will require about the same. I have 1 4Tb drive in the BI machine. I just bought BI-5 and have added my cameras to it (7-10 percent CPU using sub streams). I have 11 dahua camera's and expect to add 4 more in the near future. Streaming video my also find the NAS useful.

Any recommendations on which NAS box to look at? Or which to avoid?

 

[samplenhold]

Any recommendations on which NAS box to look at? Or which to avoid?

I have an Qnap TS-251+ that is a two bay NAS. Was very happy with it when I bought it in 2017. But lately I am getting annoyed with it. I use the QSYNC app in it to sync up my office computer and the laptop I take on the road in the RV. The last two times we came back from a trip, the files that I had updated on the laptop would not sync to the NAS. Then QNAP updated the QSYNC app and that app moved a bunch of files around on my office desktop and decided to delete about 150 files. Never could figure out why.

I know others here use Synology.

 

[SouthernYankee]

I strongly recommend to NOT record video directly to the NAS. A NAS is designed for a high number reads and very few writes. The NAS is design for complete file writes. Video is just the opposite, a high number of writes and a few reads. Remember that each block that is written randomly, requires that the OS free space, and directory data must also be written. When writing video in BI you are writing multiple files simultaneously.

I would write all the cameras to the local drive , then move them to the NAS.

====================================
My Standard allocation post.

1) Do not use time (limit clip age)to determine when BI video files are moved or deleted, only use space. Using time wastes disk space.
2) If New and stored are on the same disk drive do not used stored, set the stored size to zero, set the new folder to delete, not move. All it does is waste CPU time and increase the number of disk writes. You can leave the stored folder on the drive just do not use it.
3) Never allocate over 90% of the total disk drive to BI.
4) if using continuous recording on the BI camera settings, record tab, set the combine and cut video to 1 hour or 3 GB. Really big files are difficult to transfer.
5) it is recommend to NOT store video on an SSD (the C: drive).
6) Do not run the disk defragmenter on the video storage disk drives.
7) Do not run virus scanners on BI folders
8) an alternate way to allocate space on multiple drives is to assign different cameras to different drives, so there is no file movement between new and stored.
9) Never use an External USB drive for the NEW folder. Never use a network drive for the NEW folder.

Advanced storage:
If you are using a complete disk for large video file storage (BVR) continuous recording, I recommend formatting the disk, with a windows cluster size of 1024K (1 Megabyte). This is a increase from the 4K default. This will reduce the physical number of disk write, decrease the disk fragmentation, speed up access.
Hint:
On the Blue iris status (lighting bolt graph) clip storage tab, if there is any red on the bars you have a allocation problem. If there is no Green, you have no free space, this is bad.
======================================

 

[quest100]

9) Never use an External USB drive for the NEW folder.

I am interested in the rationale for not using USB drives. The high speed (USB 3.1or 3.2?) versions seem plenty fast enough. I have been using an external case with 2 x 14 TB drives and a single USB interface for around a year with no problems. This is in addition to an internal 10TB drive. I am recording 17 cameras with a total throughput of around 170 Mbps for a 30 day storage of continuous recording.

Am I just lucky or is the advice for older USB version? Or some other reason?

 

[wittaj]

I think you are lucky. We have seen people here do it successfully and those that haven't.

I thought the same thing that the USBs are plenty fast enough and rated faster than a drive can spin. Reality was much different. I tried it for a day and just didn't cut it. As always YMMV.

 

[SouthernYankee]

A most standard usb hard drives are not designed or tested to run spin 24/7/365. They are not designed for continuous random writes.

 

[quest100]

The drive enclosure has both USB 3.1 and either eSata or FireWire 800 interface. I believe the drives are WD Purple. I am not around the system now so details uncertain.

If USB did not work I planned to get a card for the other interface. There is no internal room for more disks.

 

[SouthernYankee]

@quest100 If you have space for a SSD for the C drive and one hard drive that is good enough. You can use a NAS or a USB drive for the stored folder.

What type is the make and model is your computer. If it has a CDROM remove it.

 

[Flintstone61]

Might interesting to get a bare Hdd enclosure with USB 3 or 3.1. and put your own drive in it. Like a surveillance drive. And do some experimentation. I wonder if eSata ever was bumped up to any newer revisions.

 

[quest100]

@quest100 If you have space for a SSD for the C drive and one hard drive that is good enough. You can use a NAS or a USB drive for the stored folder.

What type is the make and model is your computer. If it has a CDROM remove it.

It’s a Lenovo, about three years old. First thing I did was replace the CDROM with a 10 TB disk. I then decided I wanted longer storage time and added the external disks. This increased the DB rebuild times so much that I installed a SSD. I still have the original 4TB HDD that is barely being used.

All three Purple drives are used for storing new video. The cameras are split up so that the oldest files on each are about the same age when they are deleted. I have never seen the need to move files to a stored disk.

 

[IAmATeaf]

I’ve run PCs with a sata and sata power cable out through the back expansion slot with a drive just sitting there. If the PC isn’t in view and isn’t going to be moved then I can’t see an issue, except that outside there’s no real active cooling that there is inside a PC case.

 

[samplenhold]

Obviously the full path to the drive is what will determine how well it will perform. Using a SATA 6 Gb/s directly on the motherboard will give the best performance.

Other than that, like using eSATA connection on the back of a motherboard, or an USB 3.1 on the back of the motherboard would probably be the next best thing.

Going through an eSATA or USB 3.1 mid-board port may be OK depending on how they are supported by the board and CPU.

Using an PCI-E card that supports eSATA or USB 3.1 would probably give you the worst performance since the path has to go through the PCI controller on the motherboard.

Then there is the additional complexity of the external enclosure's eSATA or USB 3.1 interface that the drive is housed in. A lot of these external boxes have no real cooling supplied. Those drives are doing constant writes and will get hot.

 

[Flintstone61]

It'd be interesting to test a wd Purple in an external box that can report drive temps. and see how it dissapates heat. I got an Amcrest DVR in a unheated uncooled Garage that gets full Sun from 8AM to 4PM. It's stinking hot in there when it's 90F outside. it's sitting 8 feet up in the air. Surprised it hasn't cooked itself yet. going on 2 years. That tiny little fan in the dvr doesnt do much.

 

[GaryCAa]

Thanks Southern Yankee,
I have a 256Gb SSD drive in the machine which has Windows 10 Pro, and Blue Iris 5 is installed on it. I also has a 4Tb purple hard drive (D). My new files will be stored there. The NAS (9TB) will store historical files. I apologize for using the wrong names, but I am just starting to setup blue iris. Lots of new names between NAS and Blue Iris.

 

[GaryCAa]

Update; The Blue Iris machine (SFF) fits so well in my entertainment center. It would have been much cheaper to go with a larger box to house extra drives, but I had nowhere to put them. I added a Synology 1019+ with 3ea 8Tb drives to my network. My previous Dahua NVR5216 had two 4Tb purple drives, and gave me about 2 weeks of video. The upgrade to a NAS has a penalty of backup space. What used to take 8 Tb now requires 24 Tbs of storage pool. The Blue Iris program and database reside on the C: SSD, New, is on my d: \blue iris. Stored is on \\home\security\stored. I went with WD Red drives because I may be storing streaming videos to the NAS in the future. If you see places where I have made mistakes let me know.

Gay A