BI / HomeTheater Server

WakeRider

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Not sure where to place this so ended up settling in this spot. Going to have a machine that would run BI and also need a machine that would be running my home-theater storage. Would it be an issue if I tried running all of this on a single machine that would be a pretty beefy setup as it is an old gaming machine that I am getting rid of (I7 processor, 16 to 32gb Mem, would slap a dedicated graphics card in to help with some of the process of BI (which don't crucify me if I am wrong as I haven't finished all my BI reading). I would have all the stuff on the various hard drives (WD Purple for camera and WD Red+ for the NAS Storage and then an SSD for the OS).

Just curious if anyone has attempted this before as I don't want to spend the money for the 12 bay hotswapable drive server chasis and start this build.

Thanks!
 

samplenhold

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(I7 processor
i7 processor does not say enough. What model specifically? There is a big difference between an i7-3690, i7-8700k, etc.

Most folks will say that you should not have anything other than BI on the BI machine. That really helps when needing to troubleshoot. But there have been plenty of people running a PLEX server on the same machine.

I don't do that and wouldn't. But I have a NAS for the PLEX,
 

WakeRider

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i7 processor does not say enough. What model specifically? There is a big difference between an i7-3690, i7-8700k, etc.

Most folks will say that you should not have anything other than BI on the BI machine. That really helps when needing to troubleshoot. But there have been plenty of people running a PLEX server on the same machine.

I don't do that and wouldn't. But I have a NAS for the PLEX,
Will have to see if I can get the specific processor model tonight. My plan was to run a Plex and BI on the same machine.

What NAS are you using for the PLEX? Would like to get something that is rack mounted without paying commercial money for one.
 

SouthernYankee

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If buying a replacement machine, get a used business PC that has a newer I7 processor and at least 16 GB of memory. A tower with a lot of space for disk drives is the best in my opinion . The speed of the processor is dependent the megaPixels/ second. For BI Intel process provide a better video processing at a lower power utilization.

Actual system running BI

compare different CPUs
 

WakeRider

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Well finally got around to looking at my PC and realized the CPU is a i7-970... and no that is not 9700 just straight 970 hahahaha.

Guess need to start looking for upgrades. Will probably end up building something because need something that will fit into a server rack. Good CPU with 36gb of ram (from the old setup) that is still good, so all I need is a cheap MOBO and processor and HD's with the case.
 

SouthernYankee

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more than likely the old memory is to slow for the new processor. Coming for an old i7-970 pc, The case and power supply may be good, everything is mostly junk. The power supply may not be as efficient as the newer power supplies.
 

WakeRider

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more than likely the old memory is to slow for the new processor. Coming for an old i7-970 pc, The case and power supply may be good, everything is mostly junk. The power supply may not be as efficient as the newer power supplies.
Well this is true and a kick in the nuts. Was hoping to reuse some old hardware vs having it just sit doing nothing. Oh well time to start shopping!
 

SouthernYankee

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look on EBAY for a used business-class systems such as HP EliteDesk or a Dell OptiPlex.
 

WakeRider

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look on EBAY for a used business-class systems such as HP EliteDesk or a Dell OptiPlex.
So i did start looking at those but I want to put this into a rack server chasis. The hardware isn't that bad price wise but once I start adding hard drives and the case the price jumps up quick. But going to be able to do 8 hot swappable hard drives (4 x 4TB) and the media server will have (4x 10TB). All will be raid 5 configuration. Main OS drives will be running on Raid 0 to cover all bases on hard drive failures. It would be powered by an i7-9700k processor.

Gonna comb ebay for some used components. Case and drives will be brand new. Also considering running the OS UnRaid. Anyone have any experience with that?

Thanks.
 

WakeRider

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toliman

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Empty/New 3RU and 2RU servers can be trouble to buy, ebay is usually a good idea, but be prepared to rip out the 10 year old hardware and put in a new PSU/mainboard and SATA/SAS expanders.
RU case fans are often incredible, i.e. 15,000 RPM (and higher) 40mm fans on 300W PSUs which will sound like a typhoon or 747 jet engine. if unsure, check before buying a 24 drive rack unit cheap.

UnRAID. Anyone have any experience with that?
Yeah, quite a bit really. IMO, it needs a fair amount of technical experience for troubleshooting Linux and Docker. Having used FreeNAS, Proxmox, UnRAID and other servers, it's a crash-course in IT if you want to run a windows VM on top of UnRAID.
You can run BI in a virtual machine... but if I had to mix Plex and BI, I generally would avoid the headache(s) and get a dedicated BI machine for the price of a NVR. it's within $600 or so, YMMV.

The key reason is for reliability, but also UPS power. A ~30w server and 27" monitor is easier to drive with a single 10tb HDD, than a 6-12 drive server for 5-6 hours.

Reliability is key, and i've lost drives and PSU's on servers many, many times. Having the cameras on a separate UPS and power system, along with their own battery is far more convenient in emergency situations, especially if the "cameras" UPS is also powering a monitor, along with a separate "internet" UPS for the PoE switch, wifi and router.

5-6 hours without power, sic. plan ahead.

Pro & Cons
Pro Less expensive to have a single server. Con, anything that the NAS/UnRAID needs to do, could cause the cameras to stutter or become unusable.
Pro, you can run RAID in windows with Stablebit Drivepool instead of UnRAID, con, you don't get parity or bitrot protection, and it costs money. There are cheaper drive pooling in windows 10 options out there.
Pro, It's easy to install, Con, if Windows has to apply patches, it will reboot and need to be logged in to start recording again. (this is fixable though)
Pro, you can have Intel and Nvidia transcoding, Con, Nvidia has silly encoder restrictions in their drivers unless you have the quadro P2000 series.
Pro, you can use UnRAID, con, you need to run BI in a Windows VM, and/or know how to set this up, the UnRAID server likely requires a dedicated GPU and 16gb RAM to handle UnRAID and windows 10, sic.

As for Plex, or general NAS, pick your budget and needs a few years ahead of time. It's not RAID in a conventional sense, it's a managed JBOD, which has advantages/disadvantages. Look for guides and determine the budget and what your ultimate goals are, if it's storage or flexibility, etc.
There are Linus Tech Tips videos on UnRAID and 4K NAS, just skip over the $10,000 price tag of parts, sic.

BI is ideal on something like a "desktop" SFF/NUC, a ~$200 eBay Optiplex 5060/5070 (any recent SFF PC with m.2 SSD and HDD support) with a 10-14tb WD external HDD and a ~256GB m.2 SSD.

Purple/Surveillance drives are good, but with the SSD, you can use the SSD as a write drive, with spillover/archive to the HDD and a NAS/Cloud Storage for offsite backup. With the SSD as "Hot" storage, you don't need a Purple/Surveillance model 4/6/8/10tb HDD, and can simply use a HDD that will/should spin down when not in use. try to avoid using QLC or QVO drives or cheap Intel SSD's, as the more data is written, they will lose performance. Performance models mix in high endurance SLC cache with TLC storage, that's the ideal. YMMV.

If you want to use HEVC/H.265 video from the cameras, you should spend the extra $50 and find a 2nd hand intel CPU with newer HDMI, 6th gen QSV with HEVC encoding, which is Kaby/Ice/Sky "* lake" CPUs in the last 5 years, anything above Intel i3/i5/i7 7x00 CPUs will often have m.2 slots, which allows you to mix in a 256/512 GB NVME and a "white label" WD 10tb i.e. ripped out of an external 3.5" USB enclosure for storing a week's worth locally, and then move/archive the footage using either Google Drive File Storage and a G Suite Business account for *unlimited storage, GDFS mounts as a drive letter and syncs with your G Suite Business account.

There are other cloud/backup options, GDFS is fairly practical for a Windows setup and easy to manage.
I'd also suggest creating Year/Month/Camera subfolders for archiving, as google drive tends to be slow and wieldy if you dump 100+ files into a single folder.
 

WakeRider

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Toli lots of good info there and much appreciated.
Based on case options and leaving room for expansion if I need it down the road I am going with 2 separate pcs. Most of the money is going to be in the case and the hot swappable drives. The BI computer with have 4 hot swap drives that I will probably do a Raid 1+0 that way I can withstand 2 drive failures (running 4 drives). Probably a bit overkill but I like overkill to make sure I dont loose anything. Will have to look into the G Suites setup to have archive storage of clips as that would be pretty nice. What drive size would you recommend for the main drives (OS and possibly clips) Looking at 500 GB. Going to grab an i7-8700 since I will be running somewhere around 12 camera's eventually (9 to start).

Plex Server is going to be a similar PC setup however going to run 4 10 TB HD's for storage purposes that way I have a bunch of space before I need to upgrade. This case will have 8 hot swap drives and will do 256 GB for the main OS drives. Originally was looking at running the HD's in Raid 5 but have read a couple of things about drives failing during rebuild of RAID 5 when drives are greater than 4 TB. Given the amount of work I am going to do to rip all my DVD"s and Blue Rays onto these drives rather not redo it. Anyone have any recommendations? Mobo and RAM are on their way, just need to order the case and HD's for the BI computer. Plex computer will get done when closer to move in date.
 

WakeRider

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Okay so to update everyone on the final route I took for those that are curious.

Ended up going with 2 separate servers.

B/I Server has the following hardware in it

I5-9600k CPU
16GB Corsair Memory
Asus B360M-A Mobo
2x PNY 250GB HD's (Raid 1) to hold OS
2x Samsung 500GB HD (Raid 1) for personal back up for docs and photos ect
2x WD 4TB Purple Drives
LSI 9240-8I Raid Card
Silverstone Server Case (8 Hot-swappable Drives)
EVGA 500W PSU

Plex Server is almost Identical
I7-8700k CPU
16GB Corsair Memory
Asus B360M-A Mobo
2x Kingston 480GB HD (Raid 1) for OS and other Apps
LSI 9240-8I Raid Card
Silverstone Server Case (8 Hot-swappable Drives)
EVGA 500W PSU

Waiting to see if the 16TB external hard drives that seagate currently selling go on sale as they supposedly have the seagate enterprise drives in them. Should be some sales for Black Friday & Xmas coming up. However may buy 2 right now in order to be able to start transferring the movies and shows over that way I can start watching them once I am ready to move in.

Pretty happy with the hardware. Was a bit more money then just buying a used PC however my requirements of being able to fit in the server rack for a nice finish required the cases and if I was spending the money at that point for the cases might as well put in new components. Would have been nice to just get a larger server and consolidate these both into one machine but my rack sadly was not deep enough to support that.

Now just to get the initial couple of camera's on order so I can start playing with BI and then will order the rest of the camera's once I move in. Thanks again for those who helped out!

PXL_20201004_040035909.jpgPXL_20201004_040052192.jpgPXL_20201007_031447983.jpg
 

WakeRider

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Also really happy with the MegaRAID software and highly recommend others to use it if they are setting up a bunch of drives / hot swap management. Will be using MergerFS and SnapRAID on the Plex Server vs traditional Raid that way as I add more to my collection I can just expand the drives I need vs rebuilding the raid everytime I want to upgrade.
 
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