bidens incredible transition to electric cars

redpoint5

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...And all without any publicly stated specific, detailed plan, & timeline? Joe is TOTALLY ignorant of the effects, burden, & costs to the ordinary citizens. Either that or he and the green army just don't give a damn.
That's the criticism I have of most every bureaucratic edict; that there is no study to determine expected benefits vs costs and no clearly defined goal.

If we have a $10,000 EV subsidy (mostly to foreign manufacturers), how much CO2 reduction can we measure? How much will that reduce global temperatures? Is it worth it?

Like I said, I'm a fan of EVs, but as such, they should be making it on their own merits and not crammed down our throats by know-nothing bureaucrats.
 
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JD4x4

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If this was directed at me-
What other Power Source exactly?

Assuming you are talking about batteries. Do we just pick batteries off a tree? Where are these tree’s exactly, and are they drought resistant? Is California expected to grow these trees?
A replacement Energy Source (to replace the deemed evil fossil fuel energy source). A battery is only 1 component of the electrical energy source that the US has defacto decided is the replacement. And a battery is a storage device, not an energy source by itself. Like a fossil fuel storage tank.

Minutia discussions like this about components and technology within the discussed energy source and how it can be implemented in the real world, are exactly the kinds of discussions and solutions that are still being made with the use of fossil fueled energy 53 years later.
 

redpoint5

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If this was directed at me-

A replacement Energy Source (to replace the deemed evil fossil fuel energy source). A battery is only 1 component of the electrical energy source that the US has defacto decided is the replacement. And a battery is a storage device, not an energy source by itself. Like a fossil fuel storage tank.

Minutia discussions like this about components and technology within the discussed energy source and how it can be implemented in the real world, are exactly the kinds of discussions and solutions that are still being made with the use of fossil fueled energy 53 years later.
I'm on an EV forum, and am always pointing out how much batteries suck. As you said, they are equivalent to a fuel tank. The only difference is the battery fuel tank costs $10,000, weighs 1,000 pounds, holds 10% of the energy, gobbles a lot of space, takes an eternity to fill, degrades with use and time, requires environmental regulation (heating/cooling), and in rare cases spontaneously combusts (usually while charging).

That's a lot of limitations to overcome.

There are benefits, like being 1/4 the cost per mile of gasoline, starting off "full" every day, not visiting gas stations, lower maintenance costs...

With a $7,500 to $10,000 subsidy (in certain states), EVs have managed to claim 3% of auto sales. That means they need to become $7,500 more valuable to people once subsidies are dropped just to maintain the 3% sales volume. That's a lot of ground to make up.

I'm saying all this as an EV enthusiast (and realist). I haven't owned an EV, but I had a Prius plug-in which was fantastic (and gutless).
 

tigerwillow1

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Oops...

Ford Issues Stop-Sale On Mustang Mach-E, Recalls 49,000 EVs Due To Overheating Batteries

To be fair, the text of the article says nothing to suggest the batteries themselves are overheating, or of any fire risk.

"The problem stems from a potential overheating of the Mustang Mach-E’s high-voltage battery main contactors caused by DC fast charging and repeated open pedal events. Per the recall notice, overheating could lead to arcing and deformation of the electrical contact surfaces. That may cause the contactor (which is a electronically controlled switch) to remain open or weld closed and could result in a loss of propulsion while driving, which can increase the risk of an accident. "
 

TonyR

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"Tis very exciting when the "contactor" sticks to the floor of a gasoline powered auto.
That's when the 2 contact spots on the seat weld too until the switch is turned off..... :smash:
That happened to this 16 year old driving my dad's '57 Ford with 312 ci, 245 HP Thunderbird Special V-8....and it wasn't coolant I left in the seat. :lol:
 

TonyR

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Oh, I'm certain Biden consulted with his economic advisors and his advisors in turn consulted with leading EV manufacturers before he decided to close down the pipe lines and put in place other measures to cause record inflation and gas price increases.....NOT!! :confused:

Too late now but maybe he should have consulted with this CEO ==>> Stellantis CEO Warns That A Recession Could Slow EV Adoption

Excerpt:

".....Tavares said that central banks need to be cautious in their decision-making and indicated that increased costs of servicing debt due to higher interest rates could lead to government spending cuts at a time when consumers need as much support as possible to get into an EV."

and

“.......If you damage the capability of the middle classes to buy electrified cars because you support them less, because you don’t have so much money, because you need to take care of the budget deficit,” Tavares said, “because you cannot continue to increase the debt, because the servicing of the debts is very expensive, because of the increasing interest rates, you are increasing the gap.”
 

LittleBrother

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I've been enthusiastic towards EVs for a long time. That said...

Imagine a Honda Accord has a $7,500 federal tax credit, but the Toyota Camry has nothing. How many Accords vs Camrys do you think would be sold? It would be like 99% Accords.

EVs are 3% of vehicle sales despite a $7,500 federal tax credit, not to mention state incentives that can bring the price down ten grand. The fact that insanely high subsidy results in 3% of sales is damning evidence that EVs need to get a lot better. It's not just lack of fast chargers; it's the massive suck that is the battery. The reality is they need to get about $10k "better". That could mean more affordable, that could mean batteries that suck a lot less, that could mean massive savings per mile using electricity vs gasoline... various combinations of everything that adds value.

EVs are great for local driving if you've got garage space for one. They're terrible at replacing vehicles that go on longer trips, or that can't live in a garage or charge at work.
I have an EV and a PHEV and although I agree with much of what you said, but a large reason people do not want EVs is the same reason they did not want hybrids: fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Those who for some reason do not like EVs already will jump immediately to the edge case about road trips or towing a trailer or whatever. My PHEV gives me the infinite range of a gas car, yet around town I barely use fuel. The EV delivers incredible reliability (their entire powertrain is very simple) with over 100 miles right now at what a gallon of gas costs.

Some people refuse to drive an EV no matter what. They associate them with government overreach or who knows what else. I'm well familiar with their shortcomings, having owned several (you'll notice most people with very strong opinions on EVs have never even driven one). They represent a small percentage of the market, but critically they have a very high rate of owner satisfaction; those who have bought one are generally very happy with the choice.
 

Smilingreen

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I have an EV and a PHEV and although I agree with much of what you said, but a large reason people do not want EVs is the same reason they did not want hybrids: fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Those who for some reason do not like EVs already will jump immediately to the edge case about road trips or towing a trailer or whatever. My PHEV gives me the infinite range of a gas car, yet around town I barely use fuel. The EV delivers incredible reliability (their entire powertrain is very simple) with over 100 miles right now at what a gallon of gas costs.

Some people refuse to drive an EV no matter what. They associate them with government overreach or who knows what else. I'm well familiar with their shortcomings, having owned several (you'll notice most people with very strong opinions on EVs have never even driven one). They represent a small percentage of the market, but critically they have a very high rate of owner satisfaction; those who have bought one are generally very happy with the choice.
"those who have bought one are generally very happy with the choice"

Except AOC.......:rofl:
 

Smilingreen

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Oops...

Ford Issues Stop-Sale On Mustang Mach-E, Recalls 49,000 EVs Due To Overheating Batteries

To be fair, the text of the article says nothing to suggest the batteries themselves are overheating, or of any fire risk.

"The problem stems from a potential overheating of the Mustang Mach-E’s high-voltage battery main contactors caused by DC fast charging and repeated open pedal events. Per the recall notice, overheating could lead to arcing and deformation of the electrical contact surfaces. That may cause the contactor (which is a electronically controlled switch) to remain open or weld closed and could result in a loss of propulsion while driving, which can increase the risk of an accident. "
Sounds like Ford needs to invest in a NEMA rated contactor instead of an IEC rated contactor. Them kids with the bumping foot on the pedal need a jogging rated contactor.
 

garycrist

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There was Ronny's Ray Gun or Star Wars,Fusion and Tokomak, SSC ("Superconducting Super Collider" This is where the government
dug a 56 mile in diameter tunnel in the ground complete with a big hole. They would eventually dump massive truck loads of cash
money into this hole. The bills were to be be spun to relativistic speeds while other scientists would have casually waited for change at the other end
to buy coffee). I digress. Now EVs? Why might I not believe in PIPE DREAMS? I forgot about "them thar" high speed trains! :smash:
 

redpoint5

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While I'm sure there are some politicians that fully believe global warming is the #1 threat to humanity, I think most of them simply use it as an excuse to seize power and promote their communist agenda of "economic equity". Of those, a large number understand that communism causes a massive drop in overall prosperity due to the inefficiency of arbitrarily assigning value to things instead of leveraging free markets to determine value. Better to all be equally poor comrades (except for the ruling elite), than for there to be disparity.

There's a communist on another forum that is completely honest about his support for communism; that it would cause a massive drop in economic well-being. This is exactly what he wants because he believes in the Gaia religion that all creatures on earth are good and have the right to impact it... except for humans. Everything humans do is evil (even though he's an atheist and doesn't believe in evil).

BLM has the same agenda; to make everyone into comrades, children a ward of the state (that's implied by being against "nuclear family structure"), and to make everyone equally poor (except for the ruling elites).

That's the insidiousness of the name Black Lives Matter, because the agenda has nothing to do with improving black culture or outcomes (except for the elite members). It's a way to grift from those who don't read beyond the name and feel compelled to give.

BTW, that's why I dislike any disingenuous title, because it presumes we're fools (and they are often right). "Pro-choice" is an example. The title suggests the matter is about liberty, not about the real issue of terminating human life.

Anyhow, I'm rambling now and don't know what this has to do with electric cars, but the Democratic party has been hijacked by the more extreme left. What's astonishing to me is how eager liberals are to surrender liberty. The latin root word liber means free.
 

Gargoile

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I have an EV and a PHEV and although I agree with much of what you said, but a large reason people do not want EVs is the same reason they did not want hybrids: fear, uncertainty, and doubt. Those who for some reason do not like EVs already will jump immediately to the edge case about road trips or towing a trailer or whatever. My PHEV gives me the infinite range of a gas car, yet around town I barely use fuel. The EV delivers incredible reliability (their entire powertrain is very simple) with over 100 miles right now at what a gallon of gas costs.

Some people refuse to drive an EV no matter what. They associate them with government overreach or who knows what else. I'm well familiar with their shortcomings, having owned several (you'll notice most people with very strong opinions on EVs have never even driven one). They represent a small percentage of the market, but critically they have a very high rate of owner satisfaction; those who have bought one are generally very happy with the choice.
The unseen issue is the repair costs to EV's and hybrid vehicles. My 2016 hybrid is in the shop having the transmission replaced. The car has been error free for 150K miles. But since the car is out of warranty I take the hit. Since the car is a hybrid, the transmission and hybrid system ( 38kW generator) are one component. Cost to replace this..... $13,000. Many people will not have the funds to replace items like this and just walk away from the vehicle. And the hard question asked to me was, did you save $13,000 in gas for having a hybrid? No.... I have not saved this much.

I can see the reasons why people will fight the EV push. The EV replacement parts will be more expensive than driving an ICE vehicle.
 
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While I'm sure there are some politicians that fully believe global warming is the #1 threat to humanity, I think most of them simply use it as an excuse to seize power and promote their communist agenda of "economic equity". Of those, a large number understand that communism causes a massive drop in overall prosperity due to the inefficiency of arbitrarily assigning value to things instead of leveraging free markets to determine value. Better to all be equally poor comrades (except for the ruling elite), than for there to be disparity.

<snip>
YES! Exactly!
 

sebastiantombs

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