Blue Iris app + business related + I'm not to sure

Holbs

Holbs

IPCT+ Member
May 1, 2019
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3,519
Reno, NV
I have a 2nd quote to put together for a customer since I've started telling folks that my business works with IP cameras. Of course, I will only work with Blue Iris since I am wonderfully happy and knowledgeable with configuration options for home use.
The 1st quote was simple: 20+ Dahua cameras for local use only. Possibly using UI3 via VPN for offsite which is easy to setup.

However, 2nd customer wants mobile smartphone integration. Same customer has existing quotes of over $20k (someone is trying to rip these folks off!). With Blue Iris machine + 12 IP cameras... I think I can come in at $19,500 for sure :)
But my hesitation is the Blue Iris mobile app. I personally have it for my setup in my home but use VPN. I like it but wish it was more....polished. Or maybe I should play with it more to get more comfy. Either way, I prefer using UI3 for everything. This would not be possible for this small business customer as I am not/do not want to be their IT guy and do that type of configuration on their business iPhones/Android phones and/or network. Which means no STUNNEL or port forwarding or even setting up a VPN on their smatphones & office network (though, I could work with their IT guys to see what it takes to make VPN happen so that the IT guys have to train and configure).
I know Dahua NVR and HikVision NVR with companion apps use P2P to make life easy. Would this be a author Mike question in regards to something similiar for Blue Iris?
 
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Holbs said:
I have a 2nd quote to put together for a customer since I've started telling folks that my business works with IP cameras. Of course, I will only work with Blue Iris since I am wonderfully happy and knowledgeable with configuration options for home use.
The 1st quote was simple: 20+ Dahua cameras for local use only. Possibly using UI3 via VPN for offsite which is easy to setup.

However, 2nd customer wants mobile smartphone integration. Same customer has existing quotes of over $20k (someone is trying to rip these folks off!). With Blue Iris machine + 12 IP cameras... I think I can come in at $19,500 for sure :)
But my hesitation is the Blue Iris mobile app. I personally have it for my setup in my home but use VPN. I like it but wish it was more....polished. Or maybe I should play with it more to get more comfy. Either way, I prefer using UI3 for everything. This would not be possible for this small business customer as I am not/do not want to be their IT guy and do that type of configuration on their business iPhones/Android phones and/or network. Which means no STUNNEL or port forwarding or even setting up a VPN on their smatphones & office network (though, I could work with their IT guys to see what it takes to make VPN happen so that the IT guys have to train and configure).
I know Dahua NVR and HikVision NVR with companion apps use P2P to make life easy. Would this be a author Mike question in regards to something similiar for Blue Iris?
Click to expand...
Dahua and hik p2p dont make life easy, they make the system vulnerable. They simply cannot and should not ever be trusted. You can use zerotier or similar.
For business use I would go with a commercial vms like digital watchdog ipvms (nxwitness) - they provide their own p2p typ connection.
 
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I agree with @fenderman, You're probably better off with DW IPVMS. You can create a cloud account with Digital Watchdog and it can be synced with the DW server. I believe the cloud connection with the DW server is encrypted and you can also setup 2 factor authentication for each cloud account you create. The user will then be able to log into the DW app on their phone using the DW cloud account and remotely view the cameras without any port forwarding or using p2p.

Just keep in mind Digital Watchdog is not as customizable as Blue Iris. Also, if you plan to use the in camera AI with the Dahua cameras it may not work. I have DW IPVMS on one of my test computers and I was able to get the AI to work with two of my 4mp 5442's but it did not work with any of my Color 4k's. I'm also setting up a DW server for one of my friends and when I was bench programming the system I was not able to get it to recognize any of the 5442's built in AI. It's not fully set up yet so I'll have to mess with it once it's up and running.
 
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@Holbs - how advanced is the IT team? Do they already have a domain registered? If they have skills - you could deploy BI with some additional security layered in with something like this:

 
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fenderman said:
Dahua and hik p2p dont make life easy, they make the system vulnerable. They simply cannot and should not ever be trusted. You can use zerotier or similar.
For business use I would go with a commercial vms like digital watchdog ipvms (nxwitness) - they provide their own p2p typ connection.
Click to expand...
I'll look into this nxwitness...thanks
 
smiticans said:
I agree with @fenderman, You're probably better off with DW IPVMS. You can create a cloud account with Digital Watchdog and it can be synced with the DW server. I believe the cloud connection with the DW server is encrypted and you can also setup 2 factor authentication for each cloud account you create. The user will then be able to log into the DW app on their phone using the DW cloud account and remotely view the cameras without any port forwarding or using p2p.

Just keep in mind Digital Watchdog is not as customizable as Blue Iris. Also, if you plan to use the in camera AI with the Dahua cameras it may not work. I have DW IPVMS on one of my test computers and I was able to get the AI to work with two of my 4mp 5442's but it did not work with any of my Color 4k's. I'm also setting up a DW server for one of my friends and when I was bench programming the system I was not able to get it to recognize any of the 5442's built in AI. It's not fully set up yet so I'll have to mess with it once it's up and running.
Click to expand...
I love how in my home environment, Blue Iris goes deep down the rabbit hole for customizations. However, in a commercial environment, less could be better due to the less personalized needs.
Interesting you say DW doesnt recognize 5442 AI alerts such as IVS tripwires. I assume the 5442 sends a standard protocol ONVIF alerts which should be recognized by all VMS's. I am unsure if this is how it actually is but is my fuzzy head logic :)
 
fenderman said:
In north america it is sold by Digital watchdog as IPVMS
Click to expand...
I have to ask the customer more details, expectations, etc. If they are AOK with something like email alerts or such.... I'm still good to go for use of BI. Of course if something critical happens, that is when they would most likely want to see live streaming. Hmph...conundrum
 
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mikeynags said:
@Holbs - how advanced is the IT team? Do they already have a domain registered? If they have skills - you could deploy BI with some additional security layered in with something like this:

Click to expand...

I still have to ask the customer lots of info. I could be totally wrong. MAYBE the customer would be AOK to actually have something like email alerts, and then fire up VPN client to log into UI3.
 
Holbs said:
I love how in my home environment, Blue Iris goes deep down the rabbit hole for customizations. However, in a commercial environment, less could be better due to the less personalized needs.
Interesting you say DW doesnt recognize 5442 AI alerts such as IVS tripwires. I assume the 5442 sends a standard protocol ONVIF alerts which should be recognized by all VMS's. I am unsure if this is how it actually is but is my fuzzy head logic :)
Click to expand...

The 5442 is specifically listed on their support file as compatible with Analytics (AI). So I don't know if I'm not configuring something correctly but once I get his system up and running I'm going to have to figure out. DW will also integrate with 3rd party programs with its API but I haven't explored that yet.

In-Camera Analytics of Third-Party Cameras Supported by DW Spectrum IPVMS

support.digital-watchdog.com support.digital-watchdog.com

You can download DW and install it on your computer to test it out. It'll run without the license key but you won't be able to record. If you call them I think they'll give you a 14 or 30 day free trial so you can test out the software before you buy it. Just keep in mind that DW charges a per camera license and it's a little over $80 for each camera you add to the software. The license key never expires and is compatible with software updates. Aka you can upgrade from version 4 to version 5 with the same license key.
 
Holbs said:
I love how in my home environment, Blue Iris goes deep down the rabbit hole for customizations. However, in a commercial environment, less could be better due to the less personalized needs.
Interesting you say DW doesnt recognize 5442 AI alerts such as IVS tripwires. I assume the 5442 sends a standard protocol ONVIF alerts which should be recognized by all VMS's. I am unsure if this is how it actually is but is my fuzzy head logic :)
Click to expand...

I figured out the issue. Andy's cameras are using his custom firmware or "general" firmware. When I add Andy's cameras to Digital Watchdog it detects the cameras as Vendor type "General" instead of Dahua. When I flash Andy's cameras with Dahua branded firmware, Digital Watchdog detects the camera vendor as "Dahua" thus activating the Dahua Analytic plugin which will allow DW to accept triggers from the camera. Now I just have to report this to Digital Watchdog and hope they'll fix this issue. I get the impression they don't want to hear from end-users though so we'll see how it goes.
 
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As long as the camera is in the DW Compatibility List: then their support can work on bringing in the engineers to find a resolve if the camera is misidentifying on DW Spectrum.
Their End User policy is pretty strict (for support) but if you get in contact with your local DW Sales Rep, then you can probably wiggle your way into support that way. You just gotta really know your tech. Tech Savvy is what tech support really shoots for.
 
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dw.erykah said:
As long as the camera is in the DW Compatibility List: then their support can work on bringing in the engineers to find a resolve if the camera is misidentifying on DW Spectrum.
Their End User policy is pretty strict (for support) but if you get in contact with your local DW Sales Rep, then you can probably wiggle your way into support that way. You just gotta really know your tech. Tech Savvy is what tech support really shoots for.
Click to expand...

I was able to get in contact with support and figure out why DW was misidentifying the cameras. I just haven't had enough free time to organize my thoughts and post a topic on here. To keep it simple, Andy's Dahua cameras are flashed with his firmware. When either BlueIris or DW pulls the ONVIF profile of the camera, the camera identifies its manufacturer as "general". When Andy's cameras are flashed with Dahua OEM firmware, the camera's manufacture label in the ONVIF profile is "Dahua". Digital Watchdog support stated they cannot add "general" cameras as Dahua cameras in DW because that could cause system stability issues. The only way to solve this is if @EMPIRETECANDY can change his firmware to show the camera manufacturer as "Dahua" instead of "general" in the ONVIF profile.

And yes the cameras I'm using are supported by Digital Watchdog.
 
Easy way is to update the dahua logo fw to the cams, then get Dahua. Some 3rd party software have to use dahua logo fw, and our cams are easy to update.
 
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smiticans said:
I was able to get in contact with support and figure out why DW was misidentifying the cameras. I just haven't had enough free time to organize my thoughts and post a topic on here. To keep it simple, Andy's Dahua cameras are flashed with his firmware. When either BlueIris or DW pulls the ONVIF profile of the camera, the camera identifies its manufacturer as "general". When Andy's cameras are flashed with Dahua OEM firmware, the camera's manufacture label in the ONVIF profile is "Dahua". Digital Watchdog support stated they cannot add "general" cameras as Dahua cameras in DW because that could cause system stability issues. The only way to solve this is if @EMPIRETECANDY can change his firmware to show the camera manufacturer as "Dahua" instead of "general" in the ONVIF profile.

And yes the cameras I'm using are supported by Digital Watchdog.
Click to expand...

Even the cameras I have bought from Andy that came in Dahua box with Dahua logo on the camera and Dahua firmware in the GUI come in as generic in Blue Iris. I have never had any issues with it and BI and most here use the generic protocol as well.

I cannot speak to what DW does.
 
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wittaj said:
Even the cameras I have bought from Andy that came in Dahua box with Dahua logo on the camera and Dahua firmware in the GUI come in as generic in Blue Iris. I have never had any issues with it and BI and most here use the generic protocol as well.

I cannot speak to what DW does.
Click to expand...

I've never had any issues with BI and Dahua general firmware. The Dahua general firmware works just fine with DW spectrum, the only issues is the Dahua analytical plugin won't activate with it. Which means no AI alerts. Digital Watchdog is no where near as configurable as BI and you can't change that many admin settings.

DW uses the cameras manufacturer in the ONVIF profile to assign its settings and most of them can't be changed. So when DW detects Andy's cameras as "general", it does not believe they're Dahua cameras and will not allow me to use the Dahua analytical plugin.
 
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Holbs said:
I have a 2nd quote to put together for a customer since I've started telling folks that my business works with IP cameras. Of course, I will only work with Blue Iris since I am wonderfully happy and knowledgeable with configuration options for home use.
The 1st quote was simple: 20+ Dahua cameras for local use only. Possibly using UI3 via VPN for offsite which is easy to setup.

However, 2nd customer wants mobile smartphone integration. Same customer has existing quotes of over $20k (someone is trying to rip these folks off!). With Blue Iris machine + 12 IP cameras... I think I can come in at $19,500 for sure :)
But my hesitation is the Blue Iris mobile app. I personally have it for my setup in my home but use VPN. I like it but wish it was more....polished. Or maybe I should play with it more to get more comfy. Either way, I prefer using UI3 for everything. This would not be possible for this small business customer as I am not/do not want to be their IT guy and do that type of configuration on their business iPhones/Android phones and/or network. Which means no STUNNEL or port forwarding or even setting up a VPN on their smatphones & office network (though, I could work with their IT guys to see what it takes to make VPN happen so that the IT guys have to train and configure). In the meantime, if you're also exploring innovative tech to enhance your offerings, consider checking out platforms like DeFi on IcoHolder: Unlocking DeFi's Potential with Smart Contracts & Crypto. Decentralized finance solutions are transforming various industries and could potentially offer unique approaches for securely managing and scaling tech-based services in the future.
I know Dahua NVR and HikVision NVR with companion apps use P2P to make life easy. Would this be a author Mike question in regards to something similiar for Blue Iris?
Click to expand...
It’s great to see your business expanding into IP camera setups—congratulations! It sounds like you're doing an excellent job balancing customer needs with cost-effective solutions, especially compared to those overpriced quotes.
 
Only a 2 year lag. He probably retired by now :)
 
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