Brand new to all of this, looking for suggestions for a new system.

[newcambie]

Greetings!

I am currently in search of a new IP based 4K surveillance system with 8 cameras.

I would like a turnkey solution. I have read and watched videos on Blue Iris, and it looks awesome, but with the PC parts shortages at the moment, and lack of time to setup things the way I would want them in that system, I would prefer an NVR solution for now. Perhaps upgrading to Blue Iris in the future.

I just want a high quality system. I have been looking at Lorex cameras & systems, and have found that they are rebadged Dahau with inferior firmware. Lorex seems to be OK for my purposes, but I am a beginner, so I really have no frame of reference.

I also noticed while searching online, I am inundated with recommendations for Reolink cameras & systems, so much so, that I suspect paid shills may be flooding YouTube & "review sites" with positive "reviews." Just a thought, I may be wrong.

To be brutally honest with all of you, after days of mind numbing research, I have decided to ask for help from those who have experience with this. I am open to any ideas & suggestions.

I would like to purchase my equipment from US based retailer.

Thanks!

 

[wittaj]

Too many people get fascinated with the wide angle views that 2.8mm and other "all in one units" like a Reolink or Arlo or Lorex can provide and chase megapixels. But the picture is really no different than taking a pic from the same place with a cell phone - take that picture and then zoom in and it is a pixelated mess.

You would be shocked how close someone needs to be to a 2.8 lens in order to ID them. And how much additional light is needed at night (when it matters most) for a 4k camera. There currently isn't an economical 8MP/sensor combination at the moment that any would recommend.

My neighbor was bragging to me how he only needed his 4 Arlo cams to see his entire property and the street and his whole backyard. His car was sitting in the driveway practically touching the garage door and his video quality was useless to ID the perp not even 10 feet away.

When we had a thief come thru here and get into a lot of cars, the police couldn't use one video or photo from anyone's system that had fixed 2.8mm or 3.6mm cams - those cams sure looks nice and gives a great wide angle view, but you cannot identify anyone at 15 feet out. At night you cannot even ID someone from 10 feet. Meanwhile, the perp didn't come to my house but walked past on the sidewalk at 80 feet from my house and my 2MP varifocal zoomed in to a point at the sidewalk was the money shot for the police. Reolinks are even worse than these at night - he tried those first and sent back to get Arlos....and a year later he is regretting that choice too.

In fact my system was the only one that gave them useful information. Not even my other neighbors $1,300 4k Lorex system from Costco provided useful info - the cams just didn't cut it at night. His system wasn't even a year old and after that event has started replacing with cameras purchased from @EMPIRETECANDY on this site based on my recommendation and seeing my results and fortunately those cams work with the Lorex NVR. He is still shocked a 2MP camera performs better than his 4k cameras... It is all about the amount of light needed.

My first few systems were the box units that were all 2.8mm lens and while the picture looked great in daytime, to identify someone you didn't know is impossible unless they are within 10 feet of the camera, and even then it is tough. You are getting the benefit coming to this site of hearing thoughts from people that have been there/done that.

We all hate to be that guy with a system and something happens and the event demonstrates how poor our system was and then we start the update process. My neighbor with his expensive arlos and monthly fees is that guy right now and is still fuming his system failed him.

Keep in mind an NVR is a stripped down computer after all....and isn't true plug-n-play like people believe. You still have to dial the cameras into your setting.

When I was looking at NVRs, once I realized that not all NVRs are created equal, and once I priced out a good one, it was cheaper to buy a refurbished computer than an NVR. You don't need to buy components and build one.

Many of these refurbished computers are business class computers that have come off lease. The one I bought I kid you not I could not tell that it was a refurbished unit - not a speck of dust or dents or scratches on it. It appeared to me like everything was replaced and I would assume just the motherboard with the intel processor is what was from the original unit. I went with the lowest end processor on the WIKI list as it was the cheapest and it runs my system fine. Could probably get going for $200 or so.

NVRs from the box units like a Lorex cap out incoming bandwidth (which impacts the resolution and FPS of the cameras). The Lorex NVR maxes out at 80Mbps and truly only one or a couple cameras that will display 4K. My neighbors was limited to that and he is all upset it isn't 4K for all eight channels and he was capped out at 4096 bitrate on each camera so it was a pixelated mess.

 

[wittaj]

And look at this thread...

Reolink: Deconstruction of a dangerous misleading youtube review "Finding the BEST 4K Security Camera NVR Package (Reolink vs Amcrest vs Swann)"

Executive Summary: DO NOT be a sheep. Ask what a reviewer can be missing, ask if a reviewer is using hype words to sell the cheapest product. Test your cameras and kits right away. Just do a bench test. Test real world conditions. Test moving suspects. Test at night, test at day. Use a test rig...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[newcambie]

@wittaj - Thank you very much for all of the information. I will have to read it again a few times to fully digest it all. Also, it appears my suspicions were correct about the Reolink shills...That "hook up" guy was one of the main sources I kept seeing again and again.

However, I get the general idea of some of the info you were referring to regarding 4K low light performance. You see, when purchasing a Dash Cam a few years ago, the latest camera was a 4K model, however, the 1080p & even the 720p model had MUCH better low light performance due to physically larger sensors.

I will admit, I still do not understand a lot, but I am slowly picking it up.

I have been building PCs for decades, so I was initially leaning toward a PC vs NVR, but time & lack of parts availability nudged me towards NVR.

With that being said, what cameras would you recommend?

Thanks again!

 

[wittaj]

The same principal applies with these cameras as well. The best resolution/sensor combo is currently a 4MP with a 1/1.8" sensor found in the Dahua 5442 series. The next would be the 2MP with the 1/2.8" sensor.

Many of us buy the refurbished business grade PC off ebay - can get a great system for $200 or so.

It is highly recommended to purchase a variofocal lens so that you can optically (as opposed to digitally) zoom in to the exact spot you are trying to cover.

Here is a standard welcome message that a lot of us can't say it any better:

Hello from NZ

Hi guys, We're in the process of building a new house and have just gone through an electrical walkthrough. A security system was bought up by the electrician and he suggested we go for a wired system — previously I was all about wireless tech — Arlo's, Eufy's etc. but further research in...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[sebastiantombs]

You don't need to build a PC to use Blue Iris. You can buy a used business class machine with Win10/Pro on it from eBay, Dell or HP. A 7th generation or newer machine will handle a lot of cameras with no problem for two or three hundred bucks. Just make sure it has a couple of bays for hard drives for bulk video storage.

That said, my standard welcome -

Welcome to the enchanted land of video surveillance lunatics, good guys, nut jobs and miscreants (yes, I fit into at least three categories). There are a lot of knowledgeable people on here and knowledge and experience are shared constantly. That's how I got to be a lunatic (already a nut job and miscreant).

Start out by looking in the WiKi in the blue bar at the top of the page. There's a ton of very useful information in there and it needs to be viewed on a computer, not a phone or tablet. The Cliff Notes will be of particular interest although the camera models listed there are a generation old at this point. The best way to determine what kind of camera you need in each location and where each location should really be is to buy one varifocal camera first and set up a test stand for it that can be easily moved around. Test using that, viewing using the web interface of the camera, during the day and at night. Have someone walk around behaving like a miscreant and see if you can identify them. There is also information for choosing hardware and securing the system along with a whole bunch of other good stuff.

Don't chase megapixels unless you have a really BIG budget. General rule of thumb is that a 4MP camera will easily outperform an 8MP camera when they both have the same sensor size. Reason being that there are twice as many pixels in the 8MP versus the 4MP. This results in only half the available light getting to each pixel in an 8MP that a pixel in the 4MP "sees".

A dedicated PC doesn't need to be either expensive to purchase or to run. A used business class machine can be had from eBay and various other sources. The advances made in Blue Iris make it easily possible to run a fairly large system on relatively inexpensive hardware which also makes power consumption low, as in under 50 watts in many cases. The biggest expenses turn out to be hard drives for storing video and a PoE switch to power the cameras and, of course, the cameras themselves.

Three rules
Rule #1 - Cameras multiply like rabbits.
Rule #2 - Cameras are more addictive than drugs.
Rule #3 - You never have enough cameras.

Quick guide -

The smaller the lux number the better the low light performance. 0.002 is better than 0.02
The smaller the "F" of the lens the better the low light performance. F1.4 is better than F1.8
The larger the sensor the better the low light performance. 1/1.8" is better (bigger) than 1/2.7"
The higher the megapixels for the same size sensor the worse the low light performance. A 4MP camera with a 1/1.8" sensor will perform better than a 8MP camera with that same 1/1.8" sensor.

Don't believe all the marketing hype no matter who makes the camera. Don't believe those nice night time captures they all use. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Look for videos, with motion, to determine low light performance. Rule of thumb, the shutter speed needs to be at 1/60 or higher to get night video without blurring.

Read the reviews here, most include both still shots and video.

Lens size, focal length, is another critical factor. Many people like the wide, sweeping, views of a 2.8mm lens but be aware that identification is problematic with a lens that wide. Watch this video to learn how to analyze each location for appropriate lens size and keep in mind that it may take two cameras to provide the coverage you need or desire. For positive identification with a 2.8mm lens the subject needs to be within less than ten feet of the camera.

The 5442 series of cameras by Dahua is the current "king of the hill". They are 4MP and capable of color with some ambient light at night. The 2231 series is a less expensive alternative in 2MP and does not have audio capabilities, no built in microphone, but is easier on the budget. The 3241T-ZAS has similar spcs as the 2231 and has audio. There are also cameras available from the IPCT Store right here on the forum and from Nelly's Security who has a thread in the vendors section.

5442 Reviews

Review - Loryata (Dahua OEM) IPC-T5442T-ZE varifocal Turret

Review-OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal 4mp camera (Dahua)

IPC-T5442T-ZE Varifocal from @EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret Varifocal Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $200.00...

ipcamtalk.com

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

Review - OEM IPC-B5442E-ZE 4MP AI Varifocal Bullet Camera With Starlight+

All, thanks to Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY ) we have a new 4MP AI camera for testing. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This camera is using the OEM model number of IPC-B5442-ZE which is the equivalent of the Dahua IPC-HFW5442-ZE for reference. The IPC-B...

ipcamtalk.com

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+ Turret

Review-OEM 4mp AI Cam IPC-T5442TM-AS Starlight+

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk store: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price Approximately US $160 Link to camera...

ipcamtalk.com

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Turret, Full Color, Starlight+)

Review IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED (Full Color, Starlight+)

Dahua OEM IPC-T5442TM-AS-LED from EMPIRETECANDY 4MP WDR Turret AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Andy's Email: kingsecurity2014...

ipcamtalk.com

Review: IPC-HDBW5442R-ASE-NI - Dahua Technology Pro AI Bullet Network Camera

Review: OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Pro AI Starlight Full-color Fixed Bullet

Many thanks once again to Andy @EMPIRETECANDY we have for testing the OEM IPC-B5442T-ASE-NI 4MP Starlight+ Full Color bullet. This camera has been provided by Andy in exchange for a fair and honest review. This is a fixed 3.6mm bullet (Pro AI) series with the 1/1.8” sensor. It has no built in...

ipcamtalk.com

2231 Review
Review-OEM IPC-T2231RP-ZS 2mp Varifocal Turret Starlight Camera

Review-Dahua IPC-HDW2231RP-ZS Starlight Camera-Varifocal

Again courtesy of @EMPIRETECANDY EmpireTech Andy we have a new cam to look over. Its a new model in Dahua's new Lite H265 Series of cam's. Available for purchase here: Aliexpress.com - Online Shopping for Electronics, Fashion, Home & Garden, Toys & Sports, Automobiles and more Price is approx...

ipcamtalk.com

3241T-ZAS Review

Review-OEM IPC-T3241-ZAS 2mp AI Lite series Varifocal

IPC-T3241-ZAS from EMPIRETECANDY 2MP WDR Turret Varifocal AI Network Camera Review unit courtesy of Andy (@EMPIRETECANDY) in exchange for a fair and honest review. Purchase in the IPCT Store Andy's ipcamtalk vendor forum: link Andy's AliExpress store: link Andy's Amazon store: link Price...

ipcamtalk.com

Less expensive models -

Budget Dahua Cams or china alternatives under $100?

Well here we go. I dont see anywhere more approriate to discuss this. Ive been messing around with putting together a cctv system for close to 3 years now. Ive bought everything i needed and also bought 2 cheap cams from a third party seller on walmart. Those cams cost me a grand total of $50...

ipcamtalk.com

VPN Information Thread

VPN Primer for Noobs

The internet is a force of nature; no video surveillance system made was designed to be exposed to those forces.. NEVER FORWARD PORTS to your NVR or Cameras, doing such things not only exposes you to severe security problems, but everyone else on the internet too.. Hackers dont want your video...

ipcamtalk.com

 

[newcambie]

You don't need to build a PC to use Blue Iris. You can buy a used business class machine with Win10/Pro on it from eBay, Dell or HP. A 7th generation or newer machine will handle a lot of cameras with no problem for two or three hundred bucks. Just make sure it has a couple of bays for hard drives for bulk video storage

True! However, I generally prefer to build my own PC so that I can choose all of the components. I'm big fan of silent PCs, although with this PC requiring mechanical HDDS which I haven't used in almost 10 years, not as big of an issue I suppose. I will check into the used market, but probably will end up building a new PC. How I wish intel was already on 7nm, but I digress...

OK, so I am convinced to go the PC/Blue Iris route. I had a feeling this would be the end result of posting here LOL! I was just trying to convince myself to go the easy route.

 

[wittaj]

You just haven't had the NVR folks chime in yet LOL. We have plenty here. But certainly most have gone from the NVR to Blue Iris route for a variety of reasons.

But unless you want the video quality of the reo's at night, NVR systems are not plug-n-play and you need to dial in any camera to your situation, which the reo's don't allow for all the settings that matter for a usable image at night. Even a great camera set to auto settings can produce a motion blur ghosted image at night.

So since you have to spend time dialing in anyway, might as well go with a system that give you a ton of options and flexibility.

 

[Flintstone61]

You just haven't had the NVR folks chime in yet LOL. We have plenty here. But certainly most have gone from the NVR to Blue Iris route for a variety of reasons.

But unless you want the video quality of the reo's at night, NVR systems are not plug-n-play and you need to dial in any camera to your situation, which the reo's don't allow for all the settings that matter for a usable image at night. Even a great camera set to auto settings can produce a motion blur ghosted image at night.

So since you have to spend time dialing in anyway, might as well go with a system that give you a ton of options and flexibility.

Hi , my name is John, and I’m a recovering 3 time DVR/NVR owner. Started my journey on a Costco Night Owl system. And refurbished Nightowl 16 channel dvr. After finding the controls very limiting, i realized there must be a better way. I found this site and took the plunge. I am getting hugely more satisfaction out of my Blue Iris setup at work.
It was difficult at first. But these guys helped me out. My systems at work are strictly offline.
But this POS 8 channel home nightowl has an App for iphone. It was an ignorant purchase. And my housebmate who paid for it agrees.

 

[Flintstone61]

Oh and I bought an Hp Elitedesk 800 G4 (2018 model) core i5 8500 system for $325.

But I am currently running 13 cameras on a Dell Optiplex SFF 7020 which somebody was throwing away. Freebie. I bought an i7 -3770s for it. And threw in 32 gigs of ram. Added a WD 250 GB ssd and found a refurb 6.0 TB drive to store video. My cpu ran hot. So i found other Dell machines using the same socket architecture( Dell precision Tower) with a bigger (slightly taller) CPU cooler and dropped my Cpu temp 7 C.

 

[newcambie]

Oh and I bought an Hp Elitedesk 800 G4 (2018 model) core i5 8500 system for $325.

But I am currently running 13 cameras on a Dell Optiplex SFF 7020 which somebody was throwing away. Freebie. I bought an i7 -3770s for it. And threw in 32 gigs of ram. Added a WD 250 GB ssd and found a refurb 6.0 TB drive to store video. My cpu ran hot. So i found other Dell machines using the same socket architecture( Dell precision Tower) with a bigger (slightly taller) CPU cooler and dropped my Cpu temp 7 C.

I use Noctua coolers exclusively. They are very quiet and efficient.

 

[Flintstone61]

Yeah I discovered Noctua somewhere in my Googling. The the cheap fans in the nightowl dvrs were horrific. I got two of the NF-A40x10's. They make it hugely more tolerable to be around the machines.

 

[newcambie]

Hey guys, getting ready to place my order. I have been in contact with @EMPIRETECANDY & going to go with the OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE cameras, but I just realized that I may need to use a mini dome for my front door (covered entryway.) Would the Loryta IPC-E3541F-AS-M 3.6mm be best suited for this purpose? If so, does it come in black?

Thanks!

 

[wittaj]

I think that is a reasonable choice. I prefer the 3.6mm, but others may prefer 2.8mm.

Not many cams come in black, but that is what paint is for (or match whatever color your house it).

 

[mat200]

Hey guys, getting ready to place my order. I have been in contact with @EMPIRETECANDY & going to go with the OEM Loryta IPC-T5442T-ZE cameras, but I just realized that I may need to use a mini dome for my front door (covered entryway.) Would the Loryta IPC-E3541F-AS-M 3.6mm be best suited for this purpose? If so, does it come in black?

Thanks!

Welcome @newcambie

I see you've got a number of members who have already shared a lot with you.

For me I have my mini-dome wedge 2mp ( better in low light ) at face level.. someone can be right in front of it, so I like the 2.8mm lens instead of the 3.6mm lens. ( update: 2.8mm lens = wider FOV and thus better for people close to the camera )

Also I would consider another camera / lens to watch the package drop area.

For the mini-dome wedges, you can easily paint the cover to match your home.