Building Your Own NVR

hmjgriffon

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I have not tried Win7's software raid, but I did try Storage Spaces once in Win8. It was worse than horrible. Had to use an expensive recovery tool to get my data back after the crash.
That's interesting, not that I don't think you know what you're doing but I think I'm still going to try it in windows 8.1 I read they have made a lot of improvements in that area since 8. :)
 

bp2008

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I should probably point out the hard drives are fine and still in use today using onboard raid 5. It was Storage Spaces that crashed.
 

acmaster

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Well FWIW I decided to go with a build using the i7-4770K (got a deal on cpu) - 500GB SSD, 4x3TB WD Red drives. Still deciding whether to use BI or try Milestone.
 

bp2008

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I considered Milestone years ago before settling on Blue Iris. And really it was an easy choice. I think you'll determine the same thing.

It is clear from their website that Milestone Xprotect is an advanced product, and there is more than one person running the show. But it is not friendly to small budgets. The free version is limited to 8 cameras, 5 days recording, and requires renewals to stay active. There are, it seems, 6 paid versions with varying feature sets and max camera limits. They don't advertise prices and we all know what that means.

So I googled and found the licenses for sale on bhphotovideo and my concerns were justified. The cheapest version of the base software with a 26 camera limit costs $99. Apparently this comes with 2 camera licenses, and you can buy additional camera licenses for $49 each. Yes, you buy the product, and then you buy it again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again.

until you run out of money :rolleyes-new:

Blue Iris, by comparison, is $49.95 directly from the maker (slightly less from a reseller) and you don't buy additional anything; you can run all your cameras straight away. There may be a 64 camera limit in the full version (this isn't well advertised), though in all honestly you won't be able to run 64 multi-megapixel cameras very well anyway on one system. Also I believe major version updates do cost money but there have only ever been I think two of those and I'm pretty sure upgrading is discounted.
 

hmjgriffon

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I considered Milestone years ago before settling on Blue Iris. And really it was an easy choice. I think you'll determine the same thing.

It is clear from their website that Milestone Xprotect is an advanced product, and there is more than one person running the show. But it is not friendly to small budgets. The free version is limited to 8 cameras, 5 days recording, and requires renewals to stay active. There are, it seems, 6 paid versions with varying feature sets and max camera limits. They don't advertise prices and we all know what that means.

So I googled and found the licenses for sale on bhphotovideo and my concerns were justified. The cheapest version of the base software with a 26 camera limit costs $99. Apparently this comes with 2 camera licenses, and you can buy additional camera licenses for $49 each. Yes, you buy the product, and then you buy it again. And again. And again. And again. And again. And again.

until you run out of money :rolleyes-new:

Blue Iris, by comparison, is $49.95 directly from the maker (slightly less from a reseller) and you don't buy additional anything; you can run all your cameras straight away. There may be a 64 camera limit in the full version (this isn't well advertised), though in all honestly you won't be able to run 64 multi-megapixel cameras very well anyway on one system. Also I believe major version updates do cost money but there have only ever been I think two of those and I'm pretty sure upgrading is discounted.

From what I've seen on the various forums from people running big installs you'll probably get around 20ish cameras or so, depending on your settings, so the 64 camera limit might as well be 64000 cuz you'll never hit it unless you run nothing but crappy old web cams. I emailed Ken a few times before I paid for blue iris and he said if he ever makes a version 4, there will probably be a small up-charge to people who already own version 3. Considering I got version 3 for $37 bucks I can live with an up-charge. The other nice thing is that if you already own a copy, you can get additional licenses for $25 each I think someone said. So if you can't get all of your cams on one install, you can always set up another DVR box, and $25 is a drop in the bucket at that point compared you what you've probably spent on cameras. I think these guys who charge you a per camera license are smoking crack personally, no matter how nice their software is. I did briefly try milestone and it looked pretty complicated and I didn't see any real performance gain over BI myself. Dunno if they have an android app but at least until I move out of this crappy neighborhood I am in, push notifications are priceless.
 

networkcameracritic

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Depends on your way of thinking. For me, getting Milestone XProtect, $49/camera was cheaper than having to replace by NVR PC to support BlueIris but everyone's situation is different in that regard. As for software, while I like BlueIris and using it for other purposes, as NVR software it's not in the same league. It has client/server in the same program, so no way to separate the two functions, it can only play back one camera at a time, playback is nowhere near as easy as Milestone, it can't take alarm input or alarm motion detect from the camera (for example, my Hik 2432 has a built-in PIR, but BlueIris can't use it. Also, the smartphone apps make a different to me and the web interface. So I get it, $39 vs. 390 for 8 cameras, not cheap, but I look at it the other way, I'm getting software corporations pay $200+ for per camera for $49, it's a bargain.
 

fenderman

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Depends on your way of thinking. For me, getting Milestone XProtect, $49/camera was cheaper than having to replace by NVR PC to support BlueIris but everyone's situation is different in that regard. As for software, while I like BlueIris and using it for other purposes, as NVR software it's not in the same league. It has client/server in the same program, so no way to separate the two functions, it can only play back one camera at a time, playback is nowhere near as easy as Milestone, it can't take alarm input or alarm motion detect from the camera (for example, my Hik 2432 has a built-in PIR, but BlueIris can't use it. Also, the smartphone apps make a different to me and the web interface. So I get it, $39 vs. 390 for 8 cameras, not cheap, but I look at it the other way, I'm getting software corporations pay $200+ for per camera for $49, it's a bargain.
Those are some good points. For me, I prefer using blue iris for my motion detection vs the camera triggering milestone, I like having various setting for different profiles, as well as duplicate cameras with different motion detection settings for recordings vs motion push notification alerts. Also I believe that you don't get a free upgrade with milestone when they release a completely new version so you have to pay all over again (I may be wrong).
I do wish than ken would work on getting the motion detection, alarm inputs and PIR motion working with the popular cameras.
 

networkcameracritic

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With Milestone, you get free software version upgrades for a year, after that, you can buy additional years of pre-paid upgrades at a discounted price, if not, keep what you have and upgrade by re-purchasing the software. It's a different model than what you may be used say with Microsoft for Windows/Office updates where you pay a discounted price to upgrade, sort of the same model BlueIris uses.
 

fenderman

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Well damn, I guess the motion sensor I yanked off the wall isn't going to do me any good with the DS-2CD2632F-I(S)...
You can still use the motion sensor to trigger email alerts direct from the camera...
 

sirsoccerhead

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Food for thought Newegg has the Purple WD drives on sale today for 126$ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=a96181fb50974bea83840d7b2f596d06&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&Item=N82E16822236660&cm_sp=

Worth buying a few?

- - - Updated - - -

Food for thought Newegg has the Purple WD drives on sale today for 126$ http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?SID=a96181fb50974bea83840d7b2f596d06&AID=10440897&PID=1225267&nm_mc=AFC-C8Junction&cm_mmc=AFC-C8Junction-_-cables-_-na-_-na&Item=N82E16822236660&cm_sp=

Worth buying a few?
 

hmjgriffon

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For you? Probably, you'll most likely use them, for me? Probably not yet, by the time I actually need them they will probably be $100 or less. Have you used any in any of your installs yet?
 

sirsoccerhead

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For you? Probably, you'll most likely use them, for me? Probably not yet, by the time I actually need them they will probably be $100 or less. Have you used any in any of your installs yet?
Bought 2 used bill me later and walked out at $236 shipped.
 

nambi

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Considering building a NVR for 25-26 Cameras

Bought 2 used bill me later and walked out at $236 shipped.

I'm a complete novice but a quick learner.

Here are my concerns / questions. With 26 cameras do they all get wired into the NVR? if so which cards are recommended for the Server?

Do thee Cards provide the PEO?

How do I know which Cams are compatible? Also I was looking at some low end cams such as HikVision, any reason why I shouldn't use this product is there something else I should be looking at?
 

fenderman

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I'm a complete novice but a quick learner.

Here are my concerns / questions. With 26 cameras do they all get wired into the NVR? if so which cards are recommended for the Server?

Do thee Cards provide the PEO?

How do I know which Cams are compatible? Also I was looking at some low end cams such as HikVision, any reason why I shouldn't use this product is there something else I should be looking at?
If you are building your own PC NVR then the cameras will be attached to a network switch. You will want a POE switch. As far as compatibility you first need to determine what NVR software to run. Hikvision is not low end, its midgrade and one of the best values on the market today.
 

nambi

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So this network POE switch will have all the ports for the Camera and only 1 connection (Cat5/6) into the NVR? I'm assuming the POE switch must be a gigabyte switch? Also is the NIC on the server a special NIC to handle this data? What cards or hardware will process all the video to come in, do I need a special graphics card or compression card. I plan to have about 26 (3MP) cameras. With these amounts is an I7 Processor capable, can I use an i5?
 

fenderman

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Again you first need to determine the software you will use. With 26 3mp cameras you should probably use milestone which allows you to use in camera motion detection. Software the uses its own motion detection (blue iris) will not be able to handle 26 3mp cameras. There is a per camera license fee. If you use milestone you can use the I5, but with the prices being so close you may as well go i7. You don’t want or need any dedicated graphics cards, they provide no benefit and suck electricity and are a common point of failure.

The switch will be connected to your router. The PC will be connected to your router as well (or switch if there is a free gigabit port). You do not need a gigabit switch but you need at least one gigabit uplink port that goes to your router. You will need to read up on networking to learn more about how network/routers/switches work.
 

acmaster

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So this network POE switch will have all the ports for the Camera and only 1 connection (Cat5/6) into the NVR? I'm assuming the POE switch must be a gigabyte switch? Also is the NIC on the server a special NIC to handle this data? What cards or hardware will process all the video to come in, do I need a special graphics card or compression card. I plan to have about 26 (3MP) cameras. With these amounts is an I7 Processor capable, can I use an i5?
POE switch is simply an Ethernet switch that can deliver power on some or all of the ports. When selecting a POE switch you need to be sensitive to the max amount of power delivered on a per port basis but more importantly the total power budget available on the switch. 26 cameras is a big switch or 2 or 3. Go with gig.

The server is a standard 1 gbps nic.

As for processing your biggest issue is the software you choose. Some are less process intensive than others. I don't know if HIK SW is less intensive. BI uses a lot of CPU. You will have to store direct to disk but even still 26 may be more than it can handle on an I7. Milestone is great but will be crazy expensive for 26 cameras ($2k ish) versus free and $50.
 
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