Camera installation question???

[Teken]

Its not only this.

Some of these companies charge for "service" but there is no service... If you ask for service because of problems, they are unavailable and you have to wait weeks and months. They sell their "service" to everyone but their ability to serve do not rise as fast as they sell it. And if you finally get service, you have to pay for repair (new hardware) ... this is a scheme of most of the service-plan companies

The OP already mention it in the first post...




But i dont understand the whole situation. Not sure if the old company wants to install a new system, another company want to install a new system because they want to get rid of the old...


i even dont understand @Teken ... even if you pay someone to install you a system with NEW wires it would be not 20.000 USD ... never. not for 12 cameras... and the "new"/"old" company dont even want to use wires and run p2p bridges... no no no

All I can say is (IF) I was able to convince a company to part with $400.XX each month I could retire!

Than again people spend easily $150-300.XX just for cellular data, cable TV, online video streaming. When companies easily piss away thousands in different services like Adobe subscriptions or so called security filtering services.

I suppose $400.XX is chump change!

 

[user8963]

people spend easily $150-300.XX just for cellular data, cable TV, online video streaming. When companies easily piss away thousands in different services like Adobe subscriptions or so called security filtering services.

but then they can use the whole adobe cloud experience and watch netflix all day over cellular , at home , and maybe watch cable tv if everything is watched on netflix...

i think you get more with the spend money than just 12 surveillance cameras

but maybe we dont have all information and they build up some darkfiber connection between locations... then the price sounds reasonable

 

[Teken]

• OP's friend has an existing system(s) in two business locations that is currently costing $480/month.
• Either the current contract is up, or business owner is tired of the current cost.
• OP is hoping to help friend either directly, (or indirectly) via his own knowledge and the help of IPCT

If all of above is true let the contract expire or turf the company. Prop up a new NVR / PC, PtP Bridge and call it the day.

Really comes down to if the existing cameras will need to be replaced due to failing, higher quality needs, features, etc.

I really don’t see the point to using a PtP bridge if the internet can be upgraded for more bandwidth. Than again that’s not made clear as to maybe they still have copper vs fibre / cable?!?

Maybe the PtP bridge was deployed like it is in low service areas or fringe zones?!?

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

PtP bridge might very well be needed within each location due to wiring constraints.

Or it might be for connecting the remote site 10 miles away, and they inadvertently list a pair for each site in the proposal.

 

[sebastiantombs]

Could also be a midspan pair to cover the distance although I doubt any company would bother with that unless a straight shot failed/bottle necked due to limited bandwidth as things slow down with signal degradation.

 

[user8963]

PtP bridge might very well be needed within each location due to wiring constraints

A wise electrician told me .... there is always a way to run a cable...

sure it depends on costs etc.
but.. a p2p bridge is the last i would choose in any installation... a proper installed cable will last a long time,... a cheaper wifi bridge will reduce the costs today, but may give you alot of headache in the future. sure it can work fine for decades.. depends on what they install and how they installed it...

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Back to my previous post... ask questions... scrutinize proposals whenever possible

Just talked to a previous client who admitted to paying $5k to replace 2 dozen or so VGA cables for HDMI, and replace the face plates. Spaces all had suspended ceilings... pull the new cable in as you pull the old one out. Infuriated more by the money they wasted vs the job I missed out on.

 

[Teken]

PtP bridge might very well be needed within each location due to wiring constraints.

Or it might be for connecting the remote site 10 miles away, and they inadvertently list a pair for each site in the proposal.

Would love to know either way. If bandwidth can be increased by a phone call to the ISP. Over the long term it just makes sense having a hard line.

Don’t have to worry about energy costs, hardware failures or maintenance, much less weather! As others noted if cabling was just too high in costs I can understand the use of PtP. Everyone places a dollar value at the time of project deployment and more often than not compromise on long term performance and real world costs.

I’ve always laughed out loud when calls would come in asking how come video would freeze or drop off when it was windy or summer came?!?

I dunno maybe when you had us install the PtP bridge in the dead of winter there wasn’t any leaves! Maybe you didn’t realize wind is a real thing and trees sway! Maybe when they see the POCO trimming trees around power lines that might be a hint that bush line that isn’t related to the power line continues to grow!

The first time my boss asked if anyone had tree climbing skills I burst out laughing! Yeah let me call Paul Bunyan right now!

 

[user8963]

Would love to know either way. If bandwidth can be increased by a phone call to the ISP. Over the long term it just makes sense having a hard line.

i dont understand what we are talking here...

camera system or setup a p2p bridge between 2 10mile-away locations...

i installed a Ubiquiti AirFiber 5 last year on my vacation home in spain... it wasnt that hard, they are quite cheap for what they offer.

maybe you need some professional help if you need a higher tower ...

i was thinking that they use p2p bridges on the locations to connect the cameras because they are to lazy to run a cable..

 

[Teken]

i dont understand what we are talking here...

camera system or setup a p2p bridge between 2 10mile-away locations...

i installed a Ubiquiti AirFiber 5 last year on my vacation home in spain... it wasnt that hard, they are quite cheap for what they offer.

maybe you need some professional help if you need a higher tower ...

i was thinking that they use p2p bridges on the locations to connect the cameras because they are to lazy to run a cable..

I posed the question as to (why) and (if) a higher level of Internet service was available via a hardline. If the answer is no and the fastest they can obtain is literally dial up.

The discussion is over . . .

It would make sense to use a PtP Bridge to obtain high speed internet. It could be one site has service vs the other doesn’t so again it made sense to deploy a PtP bridge to connect both sites for remote viewing and data storage.

Whether or not going wireless vs hardline only the OP and user knows. I’m just more curious what schpeel they used to make the owner fork over $400.xx each month?!?

Because I’m going to use that sales line!

 

[ingeborgdot]

Wow, I'm getting a lot of feedback on here. I can't thank all of you enough for your insight.

I just got off the phone with the company, and they were reluctant to give me the model numbers of the new equipment they would be installing. He finally agreed, and will be sending the info to my friend later today. At least he said he will.

For those that are confused at what is going on I'll try to explain again. Sometimes I don't give a thorough enough explanation and I apologize for that.
I am trying to figure out if I really want to take on this job. I am pretty sure I can do it, but I want to get all my ducks in a row first. What better place to go then to this forum.
My friends current contract is up, and he is questioning whether he wants to pay the monthly cost. It will be lower than before, but still $445 a month. When I contacted the company about a shorter contract, they said they can do it, but it will be for the same cost. So the monthly bill would even be higher.
The charge is for all new equipment, and support. I just think the equipment that they are using, and charging an arm and a leg for, is way overkill for what he is using it for. It is for some security, but mainly so he can check on a bin site, and his other buildings when he is gone.
This what they are charging for:
Main Site
1-Axis 12-Ch Tower Recorder - 6TB
8-Axis 5MP Bullet - Optimized IR, WDR, Lightfinder
2-Point 2 Point Bridge
1-Axis 8 Port POE Switch
2-UPS Battery Backup
1-Certified Configuration and programming

Site 2 (10 miles away)
1-8-Ch NVR with POE Switch 4TB
4-Axis 5MP Bullet - Optimized IR, WDR, Lightfinder
2-Point 2 point Bridge
1- UPS Battery Backup
1- Certified Configuration and programming

And the software they are using is Exacqvision. Is anyone familiar with that?

The reason for the P to P bridge is because at each site there are cameras that are too far away to run a line, or there is no good way to run a line to the other building where the server is at. No fiber in any locations. Too rural of an area. At the main site, one of the cameras is over 2/10 of a mile away and that is just too far, with too many things in the way of putting in a line. The other site that is 10 miles from him, that camera is in between some bins at too great of a distance with too many things in the way there also.
The P to P is not going between the main site and the site 10 miles away, just at each local site between buildings.

I just talked to a friend of mine that does networking, etc. and installs cameras if someone really wants them, and he says that this company is good, but put in overkill for their equipment. He used to work for them until he started his own business. He says I can get good equipment for a lot cheaper. He did say he could send his people to install it once I got the equipment, but I can install it for a lot less.

I would just have some questions for some of you once I decided to do the install, and hope someone would be willing to give a little of their time. I know I would need two servers, and I would use BI, but how will that work with 2 different sources of BI? What will my friend have to do with his phone, computer and iPad if he has 2 sources? These are just a few questions I have since I have never had 2 different sites of cameras.
How hard is it to install P to P bridges?
I have installed my own software and equipment, but I am nowhere near as good as many of you are on this site. This is a great place, with great people.

 

[Teken]

Wow, I'm getting a lot of feedback on here. I can't thank all of you enough for your insight.

I just got off the phone with the company, and they were reluctant to give me the model numbers of the new equipment they would be installing. He finally agreed, and will be sending the info to my friend later today. At least he said he will.

For those that are confused at what is going on I'll try to explain again. Sometimes I don't give a thorough enough explanation and I apologize for that.
I am trying to figure out if I really want to take on this job. I am pretty sure I can do it, but I want to get all my ducks in a row first. What better place to go then to this forum.
My friends current contract is up, and he is questioning whether he wants to pay the monthly cost. It will be lower than before, but still $445 a month. When I contacted the company about a shorter contract, they said they can do it, but it will be for the same cost. So the monthly bill would even be higher.
The charge is for all new equipment, and support. I just think the equipment that they are using, and charging an arm and a leg for, is way overkill for what he is using it for. It is for some security, but mainly so he can check on a bin site, and his other buildings when he is gone.
This what they are charging for:
Main Site
1-Axis 12-Ch Tower Recorder - 6TB
8-Axis 5MP Bullet - Optimized IR, WDR, Lightfinder
2-Point 2 Point Bridge
1-Axis 8 Port POE Switch
2-UPS Battery Backup
1-Certified Configuration and programming

Site 2 (10 miles away)
1-8-Ch NVR with POE Switch 4TB
4-Axis 5MP Bullet - Optimized IR, WDR, Lightfinder
2-Point 2 point Bridge
1- UPS Battery Backup
1- Certified Configuration and programming

And the software they are using is Exacqvision. Is anyone familiar with that?

The reason for the P to P bridge is because at each site there are cameras that are too far away to run a line, or there is no good way to run a line to the other building where the server is at. The P to P is not going between the main site and the site 10 miles away.

I just talked to a friend of mine that does networking, etc. and installs cameras if someone really wants them, and he says that this company is good, but put in overkill for their equipment. He used to work for them until he started his own business. He says I can get good equipment for a lot cheaper. He did say he could send his people to install it once I got the equipment, but I can install it for a lot less.

I would just have some questions for some of you once I decided to do the install, and hope someone would be willing to give a little of their time. I know I would need two servers, and I would use BI, but how will that work with 2 different sources of BI? What will my friend have to do with his phone, computer and iPad if he has 2 sources? These are just a few questions I have since I have never had 2 different sites of cameras.
How hard is it to install P to P bridges?
I have installed my own software and equipment, but I am nowhere near as good as many of you are on this site. This is a great place, with great people.

I’m still fuzzy as to the cost is this equipment rented / leased?!? If the answer is (Yes) the provider owns all of the equipment you can certainly replace theirs with anything you want as the wiring exists along with defined mounting points.

If however your friend owns the equipment and his contract is about to expire - let it lapse!

Unless this company is relaying the connection through their internal network. That’s not the end of the world because that’s the whole reason for using a PtP Bridge. It allows a remote (satellite) site to connect to a base station (home site).

Again, for clarity does both sites have the ability to subscribe to high speed Internet?!? If no a PtP bridge is the solution but if he can just call ATT, Comcast, Verizon, whoever that just makes sense because you don’t need a PtP bridge and the added expense, hardware, setup, etc.

 

[user8963]

this equipment rented / leased?!?

you have to look up what they ask per cam licence for "Exacqvision" ... crazy. Maybe there are some functions he needs... but if the licences are rent/lease, woho this company is making freaking hell money !

 

[ingeborgdot]

I’m still fuzzy as to the cost is this equipment rented / leased?!? If the answer is (Yes) the provider owns all of the equipment you can certainly replace theirs with anything you want as the wiring exists along with defined mounting points.

If however your friend owns the equipment and his contract is about to expire - let it lapse!

Unless this company is relaying the connection through their internal network. That’s not the end of the world because that’s the whole reason for using a PtP Bridge. It allows a remote (satellite) site to connect to a base station (home site).

Again, for clarity does both sites have the ability to subscribe to high speed Internet?!? If no a PtP bridge is the solution but if he can just call ATT, Comcast, Verizon, whoever that just makes sense because you don’t need a PtP bridge and the added expense, hardware, setup, etc.

I am pretty sure he does not own it. He had a 5 year contract like they are trying to setup now. I'm pretty sure it is just like a lease.
I'll try to explain why the P to P again. At one site there are 2 buildings. Main building and another building too far to run a cable, with also too many things in the way, so a cable is out of the question. The P to P is so the cameras on his one building can transmit the signal to the main building where the server is. The same goes for his other site that is 10 miles away. That site has a main building, but because of distance, and obstacles a line can't be run. The P to P gives him the ability to make it work.

 

[ingeborgdot]

you have to look up what they ask per cam licence for "Exacqvision" ... crazy. Maybe there are some functions he needs... but if the licences are rent/lease, woho this company is making freaking hell money !

I know, and that's what I keep telling him. That is why we are trying to figure out that best option. We are asking questions now. I just think that getting our own cameras, and using BI is the best solution, IF I can get it to work out.

 

[SpacemanSpiff]

Exacqvision is a good product, however it is pricey. Single IP cam license is $130. Annual Software Subscription Agreement (SSA) will cost about half that (per camera) annually.

It is slightly odd that they spec'd a Axis 12-Ch Tower Recorder - 6TB which comes with its own software, however they mentioned they will be using exacq software. Highly doubt Axis charges less for "just the hardware" for those folks that want to install different software

 

[user8963]

Main building and another building too far to run a cable, with also too many things in the way, so a cable is out of the question.

if there is a visible "roof-roof" connection between the buildings, it would be quite easy to install a ubiquiti bridge or find someone who do it.

I know, and that's what I keep telling him. That is why we are trying to figure out that best option. We are asking questions now. I just think that getting our own cameras, and using BI is the best solution, IF I can get it to work out.

if there are no functions he needs from the software which the nvr does not deliver, why are they using it... most nvrs has own software/webinterface... today there are even nvrs with built in AI-features...

It is slightly odd that they spec'd a Axis 12-Ch Tower Recorder - 6TB which comes with its own software, however they mentioned they will be using exacq software.

This !


i also looked up what "5mp axis bullet" could be...

only found 2 models

both have 1/2,9" or 1/3" ...

 

[ingeborgdot]

Exacqvision is what they have him using now. Maybe that will change with all the new equipment. I just am not sure, as the company just seems kind of hush, hush when I talked to them.

There are existing bridges right now. I would just need to replace what is there, or what was there, depending on if they will take the equipment or not.

 

[Teken]

I am pretty sure he does not own it. He had a 5 year contract like they are trying to setup now. I'm pretty sure it is just like a lease.
I'll try to explain why the P to P again. At one site there are 2 buildings. Main building and another building too far to run a cable, with also too many things in the way, so a cable is out of the question. The P to P is so the cameras on his one building can transmit the signal to the main building where the server is. The same goes for his other site that is 10 miles away. That site has a main building, but because of distance, and obstacles a line can't be run. The P to P gives him the ability to make it work.

Well this needs to be confirmed if they are literally coming down to remove all the hardware. Because if they are just going to remove some than you deal with what is going to be removed.

UPS, doesn’t matter get one anytime. Cameras well that’s a problem because you need eyes to see! Taking the NVR because each camera doesn’t have edge recording that’s a problem.

Taking the PtP Bridge well that’s a problem. All of the above isn’t a problem when you can plan and schedule to replace the same.

Have them put it in writing exactly what happens when the contract ends. His copy of the contract should call all of this out anyways so ask your Buddy!

 

[looney2ns]

I think you are way over your head with this project. My 2.5 cents.

Option, have your buddy hire the network guy you mentioned, have him assess the situation, and install the needed cables and P2P if he deems it necessary.
Then you finish with the cams and BI install.